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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> Voting accountablity?
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06/24/2003 08:54:59 AM · #1
I assume it is possible for site administration to monitor the votes and who makes them. Having said that, I would like to see vehicle in place that would make people accountable for their arrant voting.

If a voter shows a 'pattern' of placing a '1' on what turns out to be a blue ribbon winner, said person should be considered incapable of objectively voting and be removed or at least warned.

I know the process of picking the best image is rather subjective, but I believe the voting process is being abused by some of the DPC participants.

Just my 2 cents (:
06/24/2003 09:01:46 AM · #2
I agree
06/24/2003 09:03:18 AM · #3
Absurd in your and my opinion....but like you said, it is subjective. I think the issue too is that a lot of people do not use the full 1-10 scale, as they are under the impression that "nothing is perfect", and therefore the upper end of the scale cannot be used.
:(
06/24/2003 09:04:22 AM · #4
Ok.. this comes up over and over again... I'm glad that no one tells me what is an acceptable vote. Why don't we just make everyone vote a 5 on every image?

you people seem to forget that voting is subjective also. Some people will vote purely on reaction to the subject. is this not ok?
06/24/2003 09:05:21 AM · #5
I know several people who refuse to use any number under 4, either, on the grounds that it would bruise self-esteem or something, so it goes both ways.
06/24/2003 09:08:42 AM · #6
The only purpose in this would be to allow the harrassment of voters who votie in ways disliked by others. There is a very good reason why we have secret ballots for elections, you know.
06/24/2003 09:09:58 AM · #7
I've given a 3 to a shot that placed second. And actually given low scores to lots that have placed in the top 10. I see no reason why we should tell people what score they have to give on a shot.
That's like saying "Here's a group of photos, everyone is required to give the sunset a 6 or higher."
It wouldn't be a contest if people were required to give at least an X score to X shot.
Some people only like dark sinister shots. They would vote high on those shots, and low on the shots that normally do well here. Just cause the majority votes a certain way, doesn't mean everyone has to just because 'we' or anyone says.
06/24/2003 09:18:07 AM · #8
Voting has to be anonymous!

And it's clear that the voting in itself is very subjective.

So the winner is not necessarily the "best" shot, but rather the "most liked by DPC users" shot.

As I said in a different thread, the voters and the photographers are no pros. Therefore you shouldn't take this whole voting thing too serious? It ought to be fun :o)
06/24/2003 09:19:53 AM · #9
This has come up many times. There are also "troll filters" in place to weed out a significant percentage of the truly aberrant votes. Although I have no firsthand knowledge of the algorithm used to do this, I can say that the net voting results are about as nice a representation of our (naturally divergent) opinions as can be expected.
I've run some relatively sophisticated stats on the results for a lot of individual photos, both low-scoring and high-scoring, and I see evidence that a lot of thought goes into the voters' reactions to photos.
This is what makes this a great photography site. Differences of opinion are good.
If any are interested in analysis of voting trends and distributions, see this thread:

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=29741


06/24/2003 09:21:00 AM · #10
I think this would be a really bad idea.

We have a scale from 1 to 10, what is so bad about people choosing to use it ?

While everyone has their own personal interpretation of what '1' means, the only guide actually given is that 1 is bad and 10 is good.

My personal interpretation of 'bad' could be I'd never hang this on my wall. From that it would be reasonable to vote about 70 or 80% of my scores as 1s. This is not wrong, or incorrect or something that should be corrected. It would simply be my voting approach which would be perhaps different from others.

If some people choose to never vote below a 4, that is also their choice, even if I personally would find it difficult to not claim that some pictures entered are actually 'bad'


06/24/2003 09:56:53 AM · #11
Who is to say what constitutes a 10 and what deserves a 1?

In my voting a 1 is reserved for those that I feel totally disregarded the challenge completely, therefore I don't issue very many 1 votes.

A 10 on the other hand, is reserved for those shots that when it pops up on my monitor it jumps out at you and makes me say "WOW".

As long as us mere humans are voting we are going to see 1 votes on ribbon winners, just as we are going to see 10 votes on lower finishing shots.
06/24/2003 10:21:48 AM · #12
This is exactly the kind of thread we discussed a few weeks ago (during the Home Sweet Home challenge), where people are criticised for the way they vote. These threads are far more damaging to our scores than the occasional one. Already many people are terrified of voting anything less than a 4 or a 5, because of the non-stop bickering about low scores. If someone tries to influence the scoring by giving ones to very good photos, then each good photo will get a one, and the best photo will still win. People who are afraid to voice their opinion by giving appropriate scores, are far more troublesome. If my photo sucks, I want to know. I don't want people to haphazardly give me a five, because they don't want to hurt my feelings. For the same reason, I hand out the occasional 1 when I feel the need.
06/24/2003 10:26:36 AM · #13
>Snip>>>>>
I know the process of picking the best image is rather , but I believe the voting process is being abused by some of the DPC participants.

I'm sure it does get abused ..Not much more they can do then watch for troll patterns.


06/24/2003 10:31:06 AM · #14
In Chicago we have a wonderful Art Museum with many great works of art. If I had to rate all the works in the museum some of them would get a 3. Art is totally subjective and as such can have a wide variety of opinions.

If you are planning on selling your art people will not be determing if it fits the "photographic rules" but how it affects them on a personal level.
06/24/2003 10:37:30 AM · #15
I thought there was already a system like that but it looked at your voting pattern for the challenge you are voting on and some of your votes could be kicked out if they were all 3's or all 10's or something like that... I could be VERY wrong <shrug>

James
06/24/2003 10:39:40 AM · #16
I think the process works if the voters are fair and consistent. If there are people who only use 3-8 in their votes, then that's fine. If my bad picture gets a 4 and someone's good picture gets an 8, then that's the way its supposed to work. Is that so bad? I think as long as people stay consistent, the winner will still be a winner. If you get a blue ribbon at 7.1 and another person gets one at 8.1, you still both have blue ribbons. Its relative to the other scores, not a grading scale like in elementary school.
06/24/2003 10:40:01 AM · #17
People should vote as they see fit, but I honestly think they should vote on the image as a whole, and forget weather they actualy liek the image or not.

I feel that a lot of voters, if they do not LIKE the image, they will rank it very low.

For example.

I do not like fish, therfore if the worlds best chef cooked me the worlds best piece of fish, I would not touch it, it would disgust me and that's that.

If I was to vote on the quality of fish, I would look at it's presentation, the way it's cooked, the texture, the touch and probably taste it to see if it's cooked ok etc.

I surely wouldn't mark it 1 just beacsue 'I don't like it'

I think i a shot is technically perfect, that is 5 points in the bag straight away.

If I see a shot that is out of focus, then sadly I give it a 1-3 all the time. Unless it's been done by design.

Likewise, originality and creatve thinking (regardless of wethar I like iot or not) is rewarded again by myself as a high vote. In the portrait challange, how many B&W head shots have we seen with hard black shadows? this isn't very creative, although sometimes a nice pic (I myself chose to submit this type of shot)

To round it off, I think perhaps it should be made clearer what a 10 stands for and what a 1 stands for.

If someone gives a 1, they should justify why they gave it such a low score with a comment.

(Now off to check if those peole I gave a 1 too, had comments attached ;)
06/24/2003 10:41:45 AM · #18
Originally posted by jab119:

I thought there was already a system like that but it looked at your voting pattern for the challenge you are voting on and some of your votes could be kicked out if they were all 3's or all 10's or something like that... I could be VERY wrong <shrug>

James


True, there is such a system, but if you voted opposite of what you really thought, Voted high on bad shots, and low on good ones, than you would still be evening out. The vote thrower outter thingy looks for votes that are like all 1's or under or over a certain average or something. Not sure of the specifics, but it doesn't like patterns.
06/24/2003 10:45:10 AM · #19
Originally posted by casualguy:

I assume it is possible for site administration to monitor the votes and who makes them. Having said that, I would like to see vehicle in place that would make people accountable for their arrant voting.

If a voter shows a 'pattern' of placing a '1' on what turns out to be a blue ribbon winner, said person should be considered incapable of objectively voting and be removed or at least warned.

I know the process of picking the best image is rather subjective, but I believe the voting process is being abused by some of the DPC participants.

Just my 2 cents (:


I do not usually quote myself, but I think some of you are missing my point. I am not suggesting to make the votes PUBLIC, nor am I suggesting to punish the a user who assigns a '1' to an image. I am suggesting that a pattern of placing 1's (on varied challenges) exhibits a disingenuous agenda rather than subjectivity.


06/24/2003 10:46:44 AM · #20
So you are saying that if I vote a 1 on a photo that wins the challenge, my vote was not a choice of subjectivity. It was a malicious vote?
06/24/2003 10:48:21 AM · #21
Originally posted by jonpink:

People should vote as they see fit, but I honestly think they should vote on the image as a whole, and forget weather they actualy liek the image or not.



I will tell someone if I think their shot is technically good, but just doesn't appeal to me. It does affect how I vote. A technically good shot of inner rim of someone's butt probably isn't going to score well with me, I don't care how good the focus is. Yeah, they'll get points for good focus, but lose some for subject matter.
06/24/2003 10:50:09 AM · #22
More importantly, It also depneds hugely on the ability of the voter.

A poor amature photographer whom produces pretty shoddy work - has no creativity or sence of composition, will generaly rank everything quite highly because relitive to him / her they are great shots.

They may also not appreciate how hard it is to achive a certain look or effect.

On the flipside, a pro photographer will generaly rank everything low for the exact same reasons.

Thus fairness really depends on the average ability of voters and users.

06/24/2003 10:53:43 AM · #23
Nice analogy ;)

Message edited by author 2003-06-24 10:54:14.
06/24/2003 11:18:01 AM · #24
Here's my voting sytem:

1 - if I don't like it
10 - if i like it
and somewhere in between if the first thought in my head was "whatever" :)

06/24/2003 12:59:15 PM · #25
Originally posted by casualguy:

I assume it is possible for site administration to monitor the votes and who makes them. Having said that, I would like to see vehicle in place that would make people accountable for their arrant voting.

If a voter shows a 'pattern' of placing a '1' on what turns out to be a blue ribbon winner, said person should be considered incapable of objectively voting and be removed or at least warned.

I know the process of picking the best image is rather subjective, but I believe the voting process is being abused by some of the DPC participants.

Just my 2 cents (:


I have to say that when I first read this post I was immediately struck by the absolute gall of the post content. How does someone not liking the "most popular" picture (and that is what this site does...it allows folks to vote on a picture and awards ribbons for those which are voted highest...in other words, are most popular with the voters), constitute abusing the system?

We each have our own likes and dislikes. We each have our own feelings about how a photo of a certain object or person should look. Just because I don't happen to like the first place photo does not mean that I should have to justify that to anyone. It's an opinion in an opinion poll just like EVERY other vote.

And if someone develops a pattern, so what? For one thing, as others have stated, there are already measures in place to take care of "troll" voting. Secondly...so what? If you're unhappy with the voting method, don't submit.

I apologize in advance if this comes off a bit strident, I've had a bad day and this post sucker-punched me.

Shari
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