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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Voting on Stop Motion
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 04/16/2002 09:06:00 AM · #1
I just did my initial vote to stop motion. I will go over my results later with a fresh perspective and change anything that I feel needs to be changed.

With that said, I noticed about 3-4 pictures with obvious blurred motion. Are these allowed, I though the concept of this challenge was stopped motion with no blurs. There are some obivious ones that cannot be avoided which do not take away from the photo (like the wheels spinning on vehichles).

I just dont want to comment on a photo about a blur and look like a jerk.

04/16/2002 09:11:08 AM · #2
Don't worry about it Eddy. As long as you are sincere about what you say and offer it as a suggestion instead of a put down how can anyone think you are a jerk?
 04/16/2002 09:12:19 AM · #3
Just try to vote fairly and any comments you make, try to make them constructive. That is all any of us asks.
 04/16/2002 07:48:51 PM · #4
I gave any blurred photos 1's. This is a challenge and I'm sure we all had that 'perfect shot' but with a little blur So we discarded it. "This isn't 'nam, there are rules"


Daniel
 04/16/2002 08:03:18 PM · #5
The challenge detail did say no motion blurs but i wasnt too harsh... lol
 04/16/2002 08:10:21 PM · #6
Originally posted by Daniel:
I gave any blurred photos 1's. This is a challenge and I'm sure we all had that 'perfect shot' but with a little blur So we discarded it. "This isn't 'nam, there are rules"


Daniel

WoW, that's pretty harsh. I'm not sure I've ever seen a perfect photo. I'm going to have to check out your gallery !
 04/16/2002 08:22:26 PM · #7
It seems like we can't win. A photo gets a 1 for any blur at all and a photo gets a 1 because it has no blurs to indicate movement.
 04/16/2002 08:28:10 PM · #8
Originally posted by shortredneck:
It seems like we can't win. A photo gets a 1 for any blur at all and a photo gets a 1 because it has no blurs to indicate movement.

how true, how true.
 04/16/2002 08:46:43 PM · #9
Originally posted by shortredneck:
It seems like we can't win. A photo gets a 1 for any blur at all and a photo gets a 1 because it has no blurs to indicate movement.

I did give a few 1's for no blurs, but not for lack of blur. I did it because I could not honestly tell there was any motion at all in the shot that had been stopped. There were shots that had no blur at all and did not get 1's from me for lack of blur because it was more than obvious that they did "Stop Motion."

On those I didn't see stopped motion I said that this was an excellent shot if you DID stop motion, but I can't tell you did, and not fitting the challenge gets a bad vote from me. I don't do it to be hurtful or mean, I just put heavy emphasis on the theme.
 04/16/2002 09:02:06 PM · #10
Hey that's your opinion. It doesn't bother me. I'm not going to argue over your opinion, I just thought a 1 vote was too harsh. Oh yeah, and what is the difference between no blur and a lack of blur?

* This message has been edited by the author on 4/16/2002 9:04:05 PM.
 04/16/2002 09:42:43 PM · #11
Originally posted by Daniel:
I gave any blurred photos 1's. This is a challenge and I'm sure we all had that 'perfect shot' but with a little blur So we discarded it. "This isn't 'nam, there are rules"
Daniel

So it was just 'tiny bit of blur' = fail on your view ? Did you consider 'degrees of blurryness' ?

For ones that had slight blur I maybe commented on it and voted lower accordingly, but I didn't totally vote them out.
 04/16/2002 09:53:45 PM · #12
Didn't the challenge say "no motion trails"? It did.

With stop motion photography, the way you know there is motion is by deducing it in your head. That's what makes it so interesting. You see something that you know intuitively must be moving (usually because it is defying gravity otherwise), but the photograph does not show the motion, because it is static and has no motion trails.

Let's take the example of the light breaking as an example I think everyone will agree is stop motion. How do you know it's stopped motion? Because shards of glass don't float in the air.

Now take the example of the fish swimming or of the children playing, both of which probably got quite a few people thinking they aren't stopped motion enough. Have you ever seen a fish completely still? Maybe, but not usually. Looking at that fish, I can be pretty sure it is moving. And looking at the children I can be absolutely sure they are moving.

Originally posted by mykoleary:
Originally posted by shortredneck:
[i]It seems like we can't win. A photo gets a 1 for any blur at all and a photo gets a 1 because it has no blurs to indicate movement.

I did give a few 1's for no blurs, but not for lack of blur. I did it because I could not honestly tell there was any motion at all in the shot that had been stopped. There were shots that had no blur at all and did not get 1's from me for lack of blur because it was more than obvious that they did "Stop Motion."

On those I didn't see stopped motion I said that this was an excellent shot if you DID stop motion, but I can't tell you did, and not fitting the challenge gets a bad vote from me. I don't do it to be hurtful or mean, I just put heavy emphasis on the theme.[/i]


 04/16/2002 11:18:23 PM · #13
Lots of blur, no blur, slight blur, who cares? Sure the idea is stop motion, but come on, what is most important is the quality of the picture. There are lots of shots in this round that have no blur, but also have no thing that is of interest.

I ask you. What is most important to you in your judging? For me, it's first fitting within the spirit of the challenge while making a compelling image. Regardless of how perfectly a picture meets the letter of the challenge, if it's a dull picture no one is gonna spend much time outside of this group looking at it.

What do you all think.
 04/16/2002 11:25:25 PM · #14
I think the challenge clearly said "no motion trails", and I spent all week trying for photos with no motion trails.

All of this quibbling over minor details is probably pointless, though.

Originally posted by Speigner:
Lots of blur, no blur, slight blur, who cares? Sure the idea is stop motion, but come on, what is most important is the quality of the picture. There are lots of shots in this round that have no blur, but also have no thing that is of interest.

I ask you. What is most important to you in your judging? For me, it's first fitting within the spirit of the challenge while making a compelling image. Regardless of how perfectly a picture meets the letter of the challenge, if it's a dull picture no one is gonna spend much time outside of this group looking at it.

What do you all think.


 04/16/2002 11:44:37 PM · #15
Originally posted by Reuben:
I think the challenge clearly said "no motion trails", and I spent all week trying for photos with no motion trails.



Yes, and I appreciate the attempt to get "no motion trails", but I still contend that getting compelling images should be the paramount goal.
04/17/2002 08:09:30 AM · #16
Speigner...I agree absolutely with you.

Technical details are fine for establishing differences in images that may be equal in overall quality but to put technical issues at the front of a decision is ludicrous.

This is art first and foremost. Sometimes we lose sight of that in the endless discussion's of technical minutia.

I will not discuss what pictures I liked or didn't like before voting ends but suffice it to say that the ones I liked were chosen based on emotion, color, contrast, composition, clarity. Did the image "pop". Could I see this image fronting a magazine or hanging on a wall.

It just happens that the ones I liked best were without artifacts like blur but a typical stop action shot I did not see that does typically use blur are night street scenes with cars passing. I Love the slight blur off the red stop signals passing in the night, reflecting off water in the street.

If I saw a nice picture like that then I would not hesitate to vote high for it and, in fact, I would be disappointed if they did not have some blur in it.
 04/17/2002 08:40:31 AM · #17
You know, this raises an interesting question. I have received, I think, two comments about slight blur in my picture. However, I shot the photo at 1/1000s. Isn't that enough to stop the motion? I mean, my only other option is 1/2000s, which would darken a bright day to the point of having to adjust in a photo program, which never turns out good for me. I think, in my photo, it may be more an artifact of imperfect focus because I chose to stop a motion that was occuring in more than one plane. In other words, the light breaking shot, for example, was "easy" to focus because the photographer knew exactly where the action was taking place. In fact, most shots were predictable like this. However, the animal shots are more difficult to get perfect focus on because the animal is usually moving either toward or away from the camera. This is where I disagree with:

I gave any blurred photos 1's. This is a challenge and I'm sure we all had that 'perfect shot' but with a little blur So we discarded it. "This isn't 'nam, there are rules"
Daniel

I DID put my best in... out of nearly 100 tries at the same subject. My entry is the best focused that I got. Sure, it doesn't have the impact that a lot of the perfectly planned ones does, but it was truely a CHALLENGE!
 04/17/2002 08:56:56 AM · #18
Melanie, there will always be those who will think a shot could be better no matter how well it actually turns out. I can understand your frustration, I have been battling it too. However, as long as the community consists of so many different skill levels and backgrounds, we will not have 100% satisfaction on any of our efforts.
 04/17/2002 09:48:47 AM · #19
Consider stopped motion in two different senses here... Can you tell that it's actually moving or does it appear that it could be stationary, even though it *is* moving? This leads to various interpretations of the challenge topic. There are photos in this challenge where stopped motion *is* ovbious and some where it is *not* obvious.

As for those who think a shot could always be better... Those are the people who I *wish* would comment on my submissions. I want to hear those things.
04/17/2002 09:55:07 AM · #20
As I've gone through the pictures a couple of times, there have been a couple of them that I thought, "Was there any movement at all to begin with?" However, being naive, and generally a trusting person, I am assuming (which will get me in trouble in the end, I know) that all of the shots are legit, and that there was some movement somewhere or the photographer wouldn't have entered it. Having said that, if the blur detracts from the picture (it's blatant, or action wasn't stopped) the score was less. If it was somewhere else in the picture, but what I perceived to be the subject was stopped clearly, the score wasn't effected. Just a thought.
 04/17/2002 10:21:11 AM · #21
Originally posted by Melanie:
You know, this raises an interesting question. I have received, I think, two comments about slight blur in my picture. However, I shot the photo at 1/1000s. Isn't that enough to stop the motion? I mean, my only other option is 1/2000s, which would darken a bright day to the point of having to adjust in a photo program, which never turns out good for me.

My camera max's out at 1/800, so I realized I had to use a motion that was within the realm of my camera's abilities (not to mention mine!). I also believe that with the challenge being to stop the motion, that it meant exactly that. That does not say that the photograph with a small amount of blur is not a great photograph, but it did not meet the challenge completely in that respect. For voting purposes, I may credit the photo more for being an excellent photo than I would subtract for having a little blur. Consequently, one with a small amount of blur can place higher than one without any blur.



* This message has been edited by the author on 4/17/2002 10:23:02 AM.
 04/17/2002 02:28:20 PM · #22
Melanie, were you setting your camera to shutter priority and letting the camera chose the best aperture? A lot of people do, mysylf included, but in some situations it can choose too fast of an f-stop resulting in a very narrow depth of field. I have made this mistake several times. Often it is best to set the shutter and aperture to the correct settings manually. I know it can sometimes result in slightly underexposing an image but in most cases that can easily be adjusted in your image editing program. I have photgraphed a lot of gymnastics lately and I quickly learned the tricky balancing act with the cameras settings in the relatively awful, dark mix of lights. They all required some brightning in Photoshop but it prevented excessive blur. This is a huge benifit to digital photography, being able to precisely control the brightness level of a photo even after it is taken if neccessary. I would suggest to try and get real good with the level adjustments in your program it can be extremely useful.

Tim J
 04/17/2002 04:09:12 PM · #23
I am having a quandry voting on TOAST - I cant help but think this is an altered photo. Way to perfect IMO - other thoughts?
 04/17/2002 04:36:13 PM · #24
had similar thoughts - also is the first thing my wife said when she saw the pic - and mentioned that in my comments to the photog, but who would do that? it must just be an amazingly perfect photograph. hundreds of takes, maybe a couple of friends throwing the toast and toaster with instructions to make sure they are both facing the camera. then select the right shot from all those. it's possible ...

Originally posted by whitecat:
I am having a quandry voting on TOAST - I cant help but think this is an altered photo. Way to perfect IMO - other thoughts?

04/17/2002 05:01:02 PM · #25
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
had similar thoughts - also is the first thing my wife said when she saw the pic - and mentioned that in my comments to the photog, but who would do that? it must just be an amazingly perfect photograph. hundreds of takes, maybe a couple of friends throwing the toast and toaster with instructions to make sure they are both facing the camera. then select the right shot from all those. it's possible ...

Difficult, but possible. But we have to proceed assuming these are legit shots. Actually, if you look at the lighting on the toaster nd the toast itself, it is consitent with the lighting of the sitting subject. In particular look at the dial on the toaster. Whether or not it is legit, I'm sure it took a lot of work either way.

On a (potentially) unrelated qustion, has anyone seen a digital camera which applies the date to the image, kind of like you see with a snapshot from a P&S camera? I didn't know that there are digital cameras which do this.


* This message has been edited by the author on 4/17/2002 5:07:06 PM.

* This message has been edited by the author on 4/17/2002 5:07:38 PM.
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