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 10/29/2005 09:53:53 PM · #1
...December.

RFID chips transmitting your information and photograph. Not only in passports but have been spotted in walmart. Here are a few links. What do you think about privacy on this issue?

Federal rules adopted for electronic U.S. passports
Rules
SpyChips
 10/29/2005 11:31:23 PM · #2
No one have an opinion on the RFID chip?
 10/29/2005 11:58:42 PM · #3
Too late, they're already everywhere.
 10/30/2005 12:05:02 AM · #4
Great Idea - Really -> Just what the organised identify theft needs, something that can grab all the info from a distance.

Of course the US customs web-site tells me they are safe and only "officials" can access the info, so what do I know.

What do I think of the privacy - There is none, so I don't think anything about it :-(

Message edited by author 2005-10-30 00:05:30.
 10/30/2005 12:26:23 AM · #5
I'm not familiar with these RFID tags...Can you say a little bit about them? Are they scanned when you purchase the product and collect information about you such as your CC number, name, address, phone, etc?
Are these tags in the products themselves?
How exactly are they going to be used?
Thanks
 10/30/2005 12:28:29 AM · #6
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
I'm not familiar with these RFID tags...Can you say a little bit about them? Are they scanned when you purchase the product and collect information about you such as your CC number, name, address, phone, etc?
Are these tags in the products themselves?
How exactly are they going to be used?
Thanks


this link will help you SpyChips
 10/30/2005 12:34:25 AM · #7
Thanks for the link, just starting to get into that web site now.
 10/30/2005 01:24:17 AM · #8
I dont think they will be secure for very long.

it may take the bad guys a while to figure it out, but they will

James
 10/30/2005 01:36:55 AM · #9
What's to stop a government from requiring all citizens to have an identifying chip implanted on their person somewhere? Isn't this the same technology that is being used to put into children (with parental consent) to safeguard them against kidnapping?
Big Brother(S) is watching you.

Message edited by author 2005-10-30 01:39:39.
 10/30/2005 01:45:04 AM · #10
It goes beyond that. When we adopted our dog we were required to have a microchip in planted into the dog by a veterinarian so the dog could be tracked.

Also lets say the bad guys get a hold of a scanner reader and everything in your house of value has this chip. The could scan your neighborhood and know what you have in your house without opening a door or window. Burglars would have a time with that.

How much further will the technology go? The US is already prepared to issue a national ID card by 2008 with the RFID chip in it.
 10/30/2005 01:47:19 AM · #11
Originally posted by SDW65:
It goes beyond that. When we adopted our dog we were required to have a microchip in planted into the dog by a veterinarian so the dog could be tracked.


Why would you not want to do this?
 10/30/2005 01:55:26 AM · #12
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by SDW65:
It goes beyond that. When we adopted our dog we were required to have a microchip in planted into the dog by a veterinarian so the dog could be tracked.


Why would you not want to do this?


For one thing, an implanted chip may have deleterious health effects, even if FDA approved. Then there are the other privacy/social/marketing issues. They will know every step you make.
 10/30/2005 01:56:29 AM · #13
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by SDW65:
It goes beyond that. When we adopted our dog we were required to have a microchip in planted into the dog by a veterinarian so the dog could be tracked.


Why would you not want to do this?

I believe these things are leading up to the mark. A religious belief on my part. I maybe wrong but...
 10/30/2005 01:33:59 AM · #14
I have been hearing about these Personal/Medical chips for well over a year now on the Coast to Coast AM Radio show. Walmart was one of the first test companies to test these. For more info read below.

Katherine Albrecht (spychips.com), the founder of Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering (nocards.org), shared her research on Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) products. The small tags which emit identifying signals, are being pitched by major retailers to replace bar codes, and the marketing applications are "quite chilling," she commented.

Albrecht expressed concern that the tags would be read by hidden scanners without consumers' awareness and that marketers would be compiling information about people that they don't necessarily want to share. While the industry is claiming that RFID tags can be turned off after a consumer purchases an item, Albrecht discovered at her trip to the Future Store in Germany, they actually weren't disabling the chips even though they claimed they were.

The government is also involved with the technology, she warned. Cash itself may eventually have RFID chips installed in it, creating a larger tracking and accountability database that Albrecht predicted would be a further erosion of privacy. Of even greater worry, she sees a time when people may be coerced into having implants placed into their bodies in order to make purchases, which she correlated with the "Mark of the Beast" from the Book of Revelation.
10/31/2005 08:33:46 PM · #15
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by SDW65:
It goes beyond that. When we adopted our dog we were required to have a microchip in planted into the dog by a veterinarian so the dog could be tracked.


Why would you not want to do this?


for our pets I feel it is a good thing, but many cities dont have a wide distribution of scanners. if your pet is lost and taken to a faciliy that does not have a scanner you are SOL and your pet will be adopted to someone else or put to sleep. It has happened many times here in houston.

putting them in people and our products are VERY BAD.

anybody remember logans run, if not watch it.

James
 10/31/2005 08:55:53 PM · #16
The great concern about retail RFID is mostly a function of "information" put out by the misinformed and fear-mongers, and this incorrect information is propagated by those that don't know better.
Bottom line is, your buying habits are already tracked by multiple means, they don't need RFID for that. There is NO way that product-related RFID tags can let anyone get personal information about you. You go to check out, the store KNOWS what you bought, whether it's tracked by RFID or by bar code.
RFID for personal identification? It won't be necessary. Biometrics will soon provide certain means for personal identification. Personally, I'd welcome this, as it will enable us to screen more effectively and faster at airports, points of entry, etcetera. I really don't care if the government knows where I go, to an extent. The use of personal (biometric) tracking technology SHOULD be limited, however, to security checkpoints. The use of biometric techniques to which the person must knowingly submit can help ensure that it's not misused.
If we think we can't be tracked today, think twice. How many times did you use a credit card this month? If someone has your credit card records, they have a pretty good idea where you've been. If you don't want to be tracked, cancel all your bank accounts, use cash only, move to a remote location, and don't drive any vehicle that requires a license. Sound paranoid? It is.
 10/31/2005 09:23:55 PM · #17
kirbic, better put cell phones and landline phones on the list as well. can track where you are at, who you call and all that other good info. The FBI, Secrete service, and other agencies have access to call records and live call information in both land line and wireless networks. I know in the wireless side (been in the wireless industry for 11 years) it has gotten a lot more restrictive on what local techs can look at for the tracing programs in our switches for tracing and looking at live call data. This restriction came about when CALEA was introduced.

the government can obtain (does has) more information on me than I would like them to have access to, and thats what I dont like. I dont want MORE ways for them to get this stuff. I really dont want anyone knowing what products I buy, its none of their business.

Not much I can do about any of the above besides moving to a cave in some remote land far away and eating beetles and grub worms and never speaking to another human for the rest of my life. Im not going to do that so I will just complain a lot

James

Message edited by author 2005-10-31 21:26:11.
 10/31/2005 10:25:12 PM · #18
James,
Good point about phones. You're pretty much on target as far as the extent you have to go to avoid collection of information.

10/31/2005 10:30:28 PM · #19
I agree with kirbic that the RFID passports seem like a good idea so long as they are only used at security checkpoints, they should speed up the lines. And reading the ComputerWorld link in the original post, it sure sounds like skimming personal info from these things is going to be extremely difficult. But what about physical theft? US passports are very popular as a black market item in various countries, and this chip is going to make them even harder to counterfit. Hence, stealing them will be even more desirable.

Now I don't know much about RFID, but even assuming the data is impossible to skim, it still seems likely that there is some way to ping these things just to see if there's one within range. A thief with such a scanner would sure be in business, he'd know exactly who's carrying a passport and who isn't! Either way, I'll be leaving my RFID passport in the hotel safe when I'm on travel.
 10/31/2005 11:31:10 PM · #20
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Originally posted by mk:
Originally posted by SDW65:
It goes beyond that. When we adopted our dog we were required to have a microchip in planted into the dog by a veterinarian so the dog could be tracked.


Why would you not want to do this?


For one thing, an implanted chip may have deleterious health effects, even if FDA approved. Then there are the other privacy/social/marketing issues. They will know every step you make.


I may be mistaken on this one, but the information I have on this matter would seem to indicate that the chip could be scanned once an animal was brought in to a vet or other facility which has a scanner. This is a far cry from some agency having the ability to scan these chips from a remote location.

We have a similar program for chip implants in dogs etc where I live , but my dog would be required to walk some 40 miles before he would even come close to being in a community that has one of these devices.

Am I worried about this.......not in the least.

Ray
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