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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Final vote adjustment
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06/20/2003 03:09:01 PM · #1
The Open Challenge final vote always comes out a little higher when it gets posted and we all know why (adjustment for the troll vote). The Members Only final vote always seems to come out a tad LOWER and i wonder why that is. Anyone knows? Not a big deal, just curious.
06/20/2003 03:18:41 PM · #2
For me personally, I will vote on a challenge and then in a few days I will go back and reassess the scores I gave, some of my scores change in this process.. I just find in judging 200plus shots you are bound to get some wrong!! Hope this is what you meant?
06/20/2003 03:23:53 PM · #3
Brentg3, no that is not what i meant. If you look at your score say 5-10 min before the results are posted, you will generally find that for the Members Only challenge the posted score will be just a tad lower. It has been that way for the Members Only challenges i submitted to.
06/20/2003 03:52:06 PM · #4
In either case, votes are being discarded for suspicious patterns or not meeting the 20% minimum. If the votes being discarded are lower than your current average (likely in the Open challenges) your score should bump up a bit. However, if the discarded votes are higher than your current average vote, your score will drop.
06/20/2003 04:10:06 PM · #5
Originally posted by GeneralE:

In either case, votes are being discarded for suspicious patterns or not meeting the 20% minimum. If the votes being discarded are lower than your current average (likely in the Open challenges) your score should bump up a bit. However, if the discarded votes are higher than your current average vote, your score will drop.


That's enlightening GeneralE. Thanks for the info. :) I wondered that myself. Would you mind elaborating on suspicious patterns?

Owen
06/20/2003 04:12:57 PM · #6
Originally posted by orussell:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

In either case, votes are being discarded for suspicious patterns or not meeting the 20% minimum. If the votes being discarded are lower than your current average (likely in the Open challenges) your score should bump up a bit. However, if the discarded votes are higher than your current average vote, your score will drop.


That's enlightening GeneralE. Thanks for the info. :) I wondered that myself. Would you mind elaborating on suspicious patterns?Owen


I once asked about the "suspicious patterns" algorithm. Drew said he won't tell us, cuz that would defeat the purpose.



Message edited by author 2003-06-20 16:13:16.
06/20/2003 04:19:59 PM · #7
I also know no specifics on how it works, but if you voted something like ninety-seven 1's and 2's and three 10's, I myself would certainly consider it "suspicious."

I suspect that most of the votes are purged for failure to meet the 20% minimum, rather than "suspicious" voting.
06/20/2003 04:20:29 PM · #8
Originally posted by StevePax:

Originally posted by orussell:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

In either case, votes are being discarded for suspicious patterns or not meeting the 20% minimum. If the votes being discarded are lower than your current average (likely in the Open challenges) your score should bump up a bit. However, if the discarded votes are higher than your current average vote, your score will drop.


I once asked about the "suspicious patterns" algorithm. Drew said he won't tell us, cuz that would defeat the purpose.


That's enlightening GeneralE. Thanks for the info. :) I wondered that myself. Would you mind elaborating on suspicious patterns?Owen


I most certainly see his point. Sorta like letting your enemy getting a hold of your encyrption code during wartime; wasn't it was called the Enigma machine or something?
06/20/2003 04:26:53 PM · #9
Originally posted by orussell:

I most certainly see his point. Sorta like letting your enemy getting a hold of your encyrption code during wartime; wasn't it was called the Enigma machine or something?

There are at least two famous code stories out of WW II: the German Enigma, broken by British and Americans (I believe largely throught the efforts of Alan Turing), and the Native American Marines who used their native langauage as the basis for codes never broken by the Japanese.

I'm pretty sure the PBS series Nova has a program on the Enigma project.

Message edited by author 2003-06-20 16:28:03.
06/20/2003 04:31:17 PM · #10
Sorry for going off topic there but thanks for the info GeneralE, in any case. :)
06/20/2003 04:52:23 PM · #11
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I also know no specifics on how it works, but if you voted something like ninety-seven 1's and 2's and three 10's, I myself would certainly consider it "suspicious."

I suspect that most of the votes are purged for failure to meet the 20% minimum, rather than "suspicious" voting.


Langdon informed me that the 20% is calculated in real time, and will not show up until the voter has voted for the 20%. I trust him, it's his site after all, but I do wonder how a voter manages to vote on 20% on the photos in the first minute of the challenge for those votes to show up. (which is usually when my first votes show up).

Message edited by author 2003-06-20 16:52:35.
06/20/2003 04:55:50 PM · #12
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by orussell:

I most certainly see his point. Sorta like letting your enemy getting a hold of your encyrption code during wartime; wasn't it was called the Enigma machine or something?

There are at least two famous code stories out of WW II: the German Enigma, broken by British and Americans (I believe largely throught the efforts of Alan Turing), and the Native American Marines who used their native langauage as the basis for codes never broken by the Japanese.

I'm pretty sure the PBS series Nova has a program on the Enigma project.


To go even more off-topic.. I am sure you will find that the americans used Navajo indians - the so-called Navajo Code Talkers (search for that on the 'net, and be baffled!)

If you are curious about Enigma, I wrote a lengthy article , "Enigma - the hacking that won the war", on the topic a while back

Cheers,

Haje
06/20/2003 05:31:39 PM · #13
Originally posted by SharQ:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by orussell:

I most certainly see his point. Sorta like letting your enemy getting a hold of your encyrption code during wartime; wasn't it was called the Enigma machine or something?

There are at least two famous code stories out of WW II: the German Enigma, broken by British and Americans (I believe largely throught the efforts of Alan Turing), and the Native American Marines who used their native langauage as the basis for codes never broken by the Japanese.

I'm pretty sure the PBS series Nova has a program on the Enigma project.


To go even more off-topic.. I am sure you will find that the americans used Navajo indians - the so-called Navajo Code Talkers (search for that on the 'net, and be baffled!)

If you are curious about Enigma, I wrote a lengthy article , "Enigma - the hacking that won the war", on the topic a while back

Cheers,

Haje


Very interesting Haje. Thanx for the link. :)
06/20/2003 05:48:30 PM · #14
Originally posted by SharQ:

To go even more off-topic.. I am sure you will find that the americans used Navajo indians - the so-called Navajo Code Talkers (search for that on the 'net, and be baffled!)

Those are the one's I meant. Here's a link to the "Major Motion Picture" site for Windtalkers. I haven't seen it, but I assume it's long on action and short on facts ....
06/20/2003 07:21:54 PM · #15
I am taking this thread back to the topic. Since the <20% votes are not included until 20% quota is met, what then accounts for the final score adjustment on the Members Only challenge. I have participated in 4-6 of them and might have seen the score anywhere between 3-60 minutes before the official votes were published. Invariably, the official score was a bit LOWER.
06/21/2003 12:15:21 AM · #16
Originally posted by Journey:

I am taking this thread back to the topic. Since the <20% votes are not included until 20% quota is met, what then accounts for the final score adjustment on the Members Only challenge. I have participated in 4-6 of them and might have seen the score anywhere between 3-60 minutes before the official votes were published. Invariably, the official score was a bit LOWER.

Hmmm ... I don't know. I forgot they changed how it dealt with the 20% rule. The last couple of times, I don't think my score changed though ... it might just be a last-second vote change.
06/21/2003 12:35:23 AM · #17
True, or people voting really quickly trying to make it through before time runs out.
06/21/2003 03:06:19 AM · #18
Originally posted by orussell:



I most certainly see his point. Sorta like letting your enemy getting a hold of your encyrption code during wartime; wasn't it was called the Enigma machine or something?


Or sending Microsoft three prototypes of the Mac operating system before it's released, and then being surprised when something called "Windows" pops up looking just like it.

To be compiled later with other doozies in the much anticipated collection entitled "Really, Really Stupid Corporate Moves"

Message edited by author 2003-06-21 03:06:40.
06/21/2003 12:26:20 PM · #19
Originally posted by StevePax:

Drew said he won't tell us, cuz that would defeat the purpose.


It's still a fallacious argument. You'll have to trust me when I say that I've had votes, sincerely cast, which were thrown out. I've also experimented with obviously (in the statistical sense) voting patterns and they were considered valid. The "expert system" approach to detection collusion/trolling is unrefined in the first place.
06/21/2003 01:11:49 PM · #20
Originally posted by Malokata:

To be compiled later with other doozies in the much anticipated collection entitled "Really, Really Stupid Corporate Moves"

Like the 35 or companies who first turned down the opportunity to develop/market a new technology called "xerography?"
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