| Author | Thread |
|
|
06/12/2003 09:14:03 PM · #1 |
| On the old site, challenge results showed the average score. When the site moved this statistic disappeared. I'd really like to see it brought back because I liked to see how my scores compared to the average. It's not so important when you score high, but when you get a low score it can be comforting to know that the average for the challenge was low too (as would appear to be the case with Liquids, where I scored less than 5, yet still made it into the top 50%). |
|
|
|
06/12/2003 09:18:49 PM · #2 |
| Think about it this way if there are 232 entries in a challenge as long as you placed 116th or above you are in the top 50% |
|
|
|
06/12/2003 09:26:08 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by OneSweetSin:
Think about it this way if there are 232 entries in a challenge as long as you placed 116th or above you are in the top 50% |
??????
Methinks that she knows this, just was wondering what her score was relative to the average score. At least that's what I THINK she means. I've been known to be wrong before, often....
Bob |
|
|
|
06/12/2003 09:50:06 PM · #4 |
| Yes Bob, you've got it right. They give us the top and bottom scores for each challenge, which are easy to look up, but the average score would be really interesting. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 10:04:47 AM · #5 |
| I would be very pleased to see some statistics on each challenge. Not only the average but a curve showing how many 1s, 2s,3s,...... Wheres is the median. Those data can instruct us how our post have really done. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 10:33:12 AM · #6 |
Good idea!
an even better stat would be to have each persons average score alongside their photo and score for that photo.
Thus the Dream Winner would show Firstrich1 a winning score of 7.574
and a usual score of 5.88.
Having the persons average included with their name would also be handy in the forums so one can tell whom is good and whom is not so good (according to the voters of course) and thus how to take ones advice and when not to take advice.
|
|
|
|
10/13/2003 10:35:59 AM · #7 |
| Good photographers can give awful advice and vice versa. Thinking any other way is pretty elitist. Take each piece of advice on it's own merits. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 10:52:52 AM · #8 |
well no, i can't agree with that as a whole.
I agree good photographers can give bad advice, but if someone with an average of 2.3 over 100 challenges told someone with a 6.8 over 100 challenges that their images lacked good composition or something else, I feel they would be ignored somewhat and rightly so.
You don't get Arsenal taking advice from the local sunday league manager do you.
It may sound slightly elitist, but there are people better than other people and everyone and that's just a fact of life.
I am here to learn like everone else, but would prefer to take advice from the likes of Gordon, Konador, Pitsaman, kiwiness, John Setzler, and David Sidwell whoms photography I admire than from someone whos photography i don't like.
If that is elitest then so be it. I welcome advice from everyone but that doesn't mean i will always take it onboard.
Message edited by author 2003-10-13 11:10:06. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 11:02:56 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Good photographers can give awful advice and vice versa. |
Awful advice gives good photographers?
Message edited by author 2003-10-13 11:03:24. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 11:07:18 AM · #10 |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 11:23:11 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by bormic:
I would be very pleased to see some statistics on each challenge. Not only the average but a curve showing how many 1s, 2s,3s,...... Wheres is the median. Those data can instruct us how our post have really done. |
Yup. What I would really like to see is the (root mean square) variance of the votes distribution for each photograph. It's trivial to compute and it's a rough measure of the "disagreement" in the voting base, as far as that image is concerned. It would be interesting to discuss the images on which there was maximum disagreement among voters. Agreement feels comfy, but disagreement is more constructive!
Message edited by author 2003-10-13 11:24:39. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 11:45:09 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by ccjp:
...It would be interesting to discuss the images on which there was maximum disagreement among voters. Agreement feels comfy, but disagreement is more constructive! |
Refreshing perspective, ccjp. I embrace this. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 11:52:25 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by jonpink:
well no, i can't agree with that as a whole.
I agree good photographers can give bad advice, but if someone with an average of 2.3 over 100 challenges told someone with a 6.8 over 100 challenges that their images lacked good composition or something else, I feel they would be ignored somewhat and rightly so.
You don't get Arsenal taking advice from the local sunday league manager do you.
It may sound slightly elitist, but there are people better than other people and everyone and that's just a fact of life.
I am here to learn like everone else, but would prefer to take advice from the likes of Gordon, Konador, Pitsaman, kiwiness, John Setzler, and David Sidwell whoms photography I admire than from someone whos photography i don't like.
If that is elitest then so be it. I welcome advice from everyone but that doesn't mean i will always take it onboard. |
What makes a good photographer? Is it scoring well at DPC? Is this a reliable barometer of what makes a good photographer?
Maybe someone who is a bad photographer is actually the best person to give advice, and might have the clearest vision, undulled by all the 'shoulds' that the field carries with it.
I should add, Jon, that a lot of your comments on my photos I highly disagree with, yet I have the utmost regard for your Photography.
I feel though, that your willingness to ignore any comments made by 'lesser' photographers comes across as arrogant.
Most professional critics serve a vital role in educating the public, and sometimes in influencing the way a particular art form will develop, while having no skill in producing that artform whatsoever. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 12:29:40 PM · #14 |
When I recieve a critique that I feel is constructive/interesting/off the mark, I go look at the persons portfolio.
This usually tells me volumes on how that particular person views images.
I then look at my image and their critique with that in mind. And do with it what I will. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 12:31:26 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
What makes a good photographer? Is it scoring well at DPC? |
Hohoho, not at all, no sir-eee! but my personal faves whom I mentioned above tend to be 5 upwards. all this is is a reliable barometer of what makes a popular photographer. They just all happen to be very good in my opinion. But I am sure some people disagree.
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
Maybe someone who is a bad photographer is actually the best person to give advice, and might have the clearest vision, undulled by all the 'shoulds' that the field carries with it. |
Sometimes yes, I never said that I would not take advice from someone who takes bad photographs. In fact, if you had read my post correctly I said "I welcome advice from everyone". One of my main critiques is my girlfriend whom doesn't have any photographic or artwork experience, or so desires it. But I always ask her opinion on DPC work and much more importantly, on all my professional work, be it photos or graphic design work or what to say in a job interview etc etc. And more importantly I would be lost without such feedback. Your missunderstanding me quite a lot on this point.
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I should add, Jon, that a lot of your comments on my photos I highly disagree with, yet I have the utmost regard for your Photography. |
That's the beauty of this site, seeing others opinions. I for one disagree with 80% of all comments I get, and sometimes they are even conflicting (Eg: "Horrible background" from one person, "love the background" from another)
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I feel though, that your willingness to ignore any comments made by 'lesser' photographers comes across as arrogant. |
Again, your having a big missunderstanding, I have never, and will never say that. I purely stated that i would prefer advice from a great photographer that I admire, rather than someone whom I think is taking bad photographs - I think everyone would agree with this, hence why a 1 day seminar with Ansel Adams would probably cost more than a 1 day seminar with my grandmother, and probably attract more interest.
Message edited by author 2003-10-13 12:35:12. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 12:32:40 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by sslickk:
When I recieve a critique that I feel is constructive/interesting/off the mark, I go look at the persons portfolio.
This usually tells me volumes on how that particular person views images.
I then look at my image and their critique with that in mind. And do with it what I will. |
Exactly my point |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 02:10:01 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by ccjp:
Originally posted by bormic:
I would be very pleased to see some statistics on each challenge. Not only the average but a curve showing how many 1s, 2s,3s,...... Wheres is the median. Those data can instruct us how our post have really done. |
Yup. What I would really like to see is the (root mean square) variance of the votes distribution for each photograph. It's trivial to compute and it's a rough measure of the "disagreement" in the voting base, as far as that image is concerned. It would be interesting to discuss the images on which there was maximum disagreement among voters. Agreement feels comfy, but disagreement is more constructive! |
I agree it is great to see just how we agree or disagree on a particular photo. I'd love to see something like this.
It's just the histogram data plotted against a normal probability scale. The slope is equivalent to the standard deviation, and it works even if the distribution is "chopped" at the top or bottom, making it more useful than a straight calculation of variance. Also, the point where the plot crosses the "Z=0" axis (x intercept) is equivalent to the average score, if the distribution is normal.
Finally, if the plot does not fit a straight line, the underlying dostribution is not normal. I've seen some "bimodal" distributions here, e.g. "love it or hate it" reactions. Pretty informative for a simple plot...
|
|
|
|
10/13/2003 02:26:32 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by Gina Rothfels:
On the old site, challenge results showed the average score. When the site moved this statistic disappeared. I'd really like to see it brought back because I liked to see how my scores compared to the average. It's not so important when you score high, but when you get a low score it can be comforting to know that the average for the challenge was low too (as would appear to be the case with Liquids, where I scored less than 5, yet still made it into the top 50%). |
I remember this stat, and used it frequently. If my score was 5.3, but the average was 5.8 for a particular challenge, I was able to say, "Hmm, below average for this group." I liked it when it worked the other way too. |
|
|
|
10/13/2003 03:09:14 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
It's just the histogram data plotted against a normal probability scale. The slope is equivalent to the standard deviation, and it works even if the distribution is "chopped" at the top or bottom, making it more useful than a straight calculation of variance. Also, the point where the plot crosses the "Z=0" axis (x intercept) is equivalent to the average score, if the distribution is normal. |
Oh yes, this would be interesting (I'm a physicist myself and I agree that this is the simplest sound analysis of voting data). At the same time, I thought that something easy to code as the variance would be informative enough in many situations.
Originally posted by kirbic:
Finally, if the plot does not fit a straight line, the underlying dostribution is not normal. I've seen some "bimodal" distributions here, e.g. "love it or hate it" reactions. Pretty informative for a simple plot... |
Several distributions are indeed bimodal - I noticed that as well. Overall, this is really easy stuff to code, so I hope it will be taken into consideration. It won't crowd the main page for an image, if it's put under a "detailed stats" link.
Ciro
|
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Prints! -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2024 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 04/24/2024 07:52:27 PM EDT.
