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09/28/2005 11:58:27 AM · #1
... what I get as a score; I just hate when people can't figure out how it meets the challenge.
I mean- defer to the the photographer and assume it meets the challenge. Don't leave boneheaded comments. Maybe its the language barrier sometimes, which creates extremely literal translations, but open you freaking minds! If it has a beverage in it it meets the stupid challenge. Its like Iron chef; when the challenge is mushroom, you can use a mushroom sauce instead of the main thing having to be a mushroom.

And for all theose silly little equations about how to score with a point for this and for that and nothing over a five if it doesn't meet the challenge... get a life. If it moves you or is meaningful and really great score it high! If it sucks score it low.

But please, don't make it scientific. Art is a non-quantifiable(sp.) magic feeling. If you do use so-called "scientific scoring methods", Photography seems less like art and more like a craft or trade.

Sorry for the rant but! Come on!

Message edited by author 2005-09-28 12:00:38.
09/28/2005 12:02:06 PM · #2
Maybe this should be in the rant forum?
09/28/2005 12:13:24 PM · #3
People are having the same reaction to mine. It's frustrating that voters have a teeny, tiny, narrow definition of the topic and vote down anything that doesn't look like the photo they themselves would've taken. I mean do people literally want nothing but tree trunks or flower stems against blue skies, because this challenge is boring enough as it is without punishing the more unusual interpretations.

Admittedly, I suspected my entry wouldn't be well received. I've been around enough to know how things are on this site. But it still makes me insane to hear the comments when "the ground and up" is so obvious to me! It's not like I shoehorned an unrelated photo I happened to like, I did take this with the topic in mind.

*all in good humor -- I swear this site makes me crazy, but I don't take it that seriously. Inspired by this topic, I took a really good photo this week and despite the mediocre score, it's one of my favorites in a long time.*

(But in every contest there are a handful of clearly off-topic photos that leave me scratching my head too, I don't deny that.)

Message edited by author 2005-09-28 13:01:39.
09/28/2005 12:35:59 PM · #4
Originally posted by blindjustice:

... what I get as a score; I just hate when people can't figure out how it meets the challenge.
I mean- defer to the the photographer and assume it meets the challenge. Don't leave boneheaded comments. Maybe its the language barrier sometimes, which creates extremely literal translations, but open you freaking minds! If it has a beverage in it it meets the stupid challenge. Its like Iron chef; when the challenge is mushroom, you can use a mushroom sauce instead of the main thing having to be a mushroom.

And for all theose silly little equations about how to score with a point for this and for that and nothing over a five if it doesn't meet the challenge... get a life. If it moves you or is meaningful and really great score it high! If it sucks score it low.



Sorry, but I can't just assume a black and white picture of a shoe meets the color portrait challenge. Some just don't meet the challenge no matter how far outside the box I think. And if you want great pictures to get 10's no matter what the challenge is, there is no point in having a specific challenge.
09/28/2005 12:54:45 PM · #5
[/quote]

Sorry, but I can't just assume a black and white picture of a shoe meets the color portrait challenge. Some just don't meet the challenge no matter how far outside the box I think. And if you want great pictures to get 10's no matter what the challenge is, there is no point in having a specific challenge. [/quote]

I agree--there have to be some boundaries or all challenges might as well be free studies. Also, the world is made up of different people--if some viewers don't see the connection to the challenge, then they don't see it. (To call their comments "boneheaded" because they don't see it doesn't really help.) If they can't see how it relates to the challenge topic, then either they just can't make the connection, or the photographer didn't do well enough in communicating, or some mixture of the two.
09/28/2005 01:02:19 PM · #6
Originally posted by blindjustice:

... what I get as a score; I just hate when people can't figure out how it meets the challenge.
I mean- defer to the the photographer and assume it meets the challenge. Don't leave boneheaded comments. Maybe its the language barrier sometimes, which creates extremely literal translations, but open you freaking minds! If it has a beverage in it it meets the stupid challenge. Its like Iron chef; when the challenge is mushroom, you can use a mushroom sauce instead of the main thing having to be a mushroom.

And for all theose silly little equations about how to score with a point for this and for that and nothing over a five if it doesn't meet the challenge... get a life. If it moves you or is meaningful and really great score it high! If it sucks score it low.

But please, don't make it scientific. Art is a non-quantifiable(sp.) magic feeling. If you do use so-called "scientific scoring methods", Photography seems less like art and more like a craft or trade.

Sorry for the rant but! Come on!


this only makes you sound like a moron. first you say you couldn't care less about scoring, and then you proceed to rant about how the scoring sucks. make up your mind already. they're just numbers, get over it.

as for photos meeting a challenge, its YOUR job to convey that message to the critic. failure to convince the critic means the photo isn't relevent to the challenge. i wish complainers would OPEN THEIR MINDS a little bit, instead of whining so much. oh boo hoo. i know in the branch challenge, i marked all of the shots of planes, etc. poorly, not because i didn't understand the connection between a "branch" of the army, but rather, i thought they weren't as artistic as some of the more rigid interpretations of the challenge. Don't confuse "thinking outside of the box" with artistic merit. If your photo is appealing, it will be scored appropriately. if people think its crap, it'll be scored as such. learn to shrug it off or you'll go insane.


09/28/2005 01:05:40 PM · #7
It is a matter of perception on the person doing the review. In the case of "Greeting Cards" for example only, as I have not yet entered any comments, there are many photo's of family members. Now, immagine going to the store to buy a greeting card. Are you going to find a greeting card in the get well soon section and it be a photo of someones wife and kids? There are many photos in there that I cannot see would apply. I will deduct alittle for that then I go into the image itself. As a person whose images usually suck for some reason or another, I am more interested in the image itself then whether it meets the challenge.
09/28/2005 01:40:12 PM · #8
Originally posted by davmct:

Originally posted by blindjustice:

... what I get as a score; I just hate when people can't figure out how it meets the challenge.
I mean- defer to the the photographer and assume it meets the challenge. Don't leave boneheaded comments. Maybe its the language barrier sometimes, which creates extremely literal translations, but open you freaking minds! If it has a beverage in it it meets the stupid challenge. Its like Iron chef; when the challenge is mushroom, you can use a mushroom sauce instead of the main thing having to be a mushroom.

And for all theose silly little equations about how to score with a point for this and for that and nothing over a five if it doesn't meet the challenge... get a life. If it moves you or is meaningful and really great score it high! If it sucks score it low.

But please, don't make it scientific. Art is a non-quantifiable(sp.) magic feeling. If you do use so-called "scientific scoring methods", Photography seems less like art and more like a craft or trade.

Sorry for the rant but! Come on!


this only makes you sound like a moron. first you say you couldn't care less about scoring, and then you proceed to rant about how the scoring sucks. make up your mind already. they're just numbers, get over it.

as for photos meeting a challenge, its YOUR job to convey that message to the critic. failure to convince the critic means the photo isn't relevent to the challenge. i wish complainers would OPEN THEIR MINDS a little bit, instead of whining so much. oh boo hoo. i know in the branch challenge, i marked all of the shots of planes, etc. poorly, not because i didn't understand the connection between a "branch" of the army, but rather, i thought they weren't as artistic as some of the more rigid interpretations of the challenge. Don't confuse "thinking outside of the box" with artistic merit. If your photo is appealing, it will be scored appropriately. if people think its crap, it'll be scored as such. learn to shrug it off or you'll go insane.


Call me a moron and then tell me to shrug it off? I like your methods.

I will repeat it again for those who still don't get it. Give me a "one" all you want. Just don't leave a boneheaded comment about how my photo doesn't meet the challenge when it does.
09/28/2005 01:47:06 PM · #9
Originally posted by blindjustice:

Call me a moron and then tell me to shrug it off? I like your methods.
I will repeat it again for those who still don't get it. Give me a "one" all you want. Just don't leave a boneheaded comment about how my photo doesn't meet the challenge when it does.


my intent wasn't to call you a moron, but rather to make it apparent that people's opinions don't really matter in the grand schema of things. i apologize if i offended.

as for comments about "not meeting challenge", if you feel so strongly about it, then PM those people back and attempt to explain where you were coming from if it bothers you so much? otherwise, grow a thicker skin and disregard them. thats what I do.

Message edited by author 2005-09-28 14:01:18.
09/28/2005 01:53:05 PM · #10
Hang in there Paul! I was looking at some of your pictures from past challenges and I see where you've had a lot of great comments left about your photograpjhy. You probably have way more positive comments than negative. Love your Pillars in the Mist shot!! Its all subjective when it comes to judging, so just take it with a grain of salt. I'm sure you've learned a lot and improved since becoming a member of this community and that's probably the most important thing. I know it is for me! Its only a ribbon after all...no money or anything like that involved.

As for the moron comment....that was definitely harsh! I don't think we need to resort to name calling when someone is trying to explain some frustrations and could just use a little pick me up. An apology is in order I would think Dave.

Take it easy.
09/28/2005 01:53:57 PM · #11
Originally posted by blindjustice:


But please, don't make it scientific. Art is a non-quantifiable(sp.) magic feeling. If you do use so-called "scientific scoring methods", Photography seems less like art and more like a craft or trade.

Sorry for the rant but! Come on!


And what makes a craft or a trade mutually exclusive with art? For some people, photography *is* a craft or a trade. Product advertising, stock, documentational photographs, crime scene photography.. the list goes on.

There's an art to being a great craftsman. There's an art to doing well in your trade.

No one method of scoring is any better or worse than any other, if applied consistently by the scorer.

Message edited by author 2005-09-28 13:56:24.
09/28/2005 02:01:29 PM · #12
Waa Waa, Why can't everyone think the same as me??? People are so closed minded (except me)!
09/28/2005 02:07:49 PM · #13
I don't believe blindjustice is offended by his scores; he's offended by the comment "does not meet the challenge"... He's offended that people take it upon themselves to impose their mindset on his work in such a literal, narrow way.

I understand where he's coming from. For myself, I have stopped making those comments. Quite a while ago actually... Here's the way I look at it; I take for granted that virtually all entries "meet the challenge" in the photographer's mind. I'm willing to concede that. But when I'm scoring images, I have my own particular sensibilities at work. What I'm looking for is excellent pictures that approach the challenge topic in a fresh, engaging way. That's a personal judgment. I may score your image lower because in my mind it's not really a good "solution" to the challenge, even if I am aware that it does have a certain logical relationship to that challenge. In a similar vein, I may score image "A" higher than image "B" even though image "B" may be a somewhat "better" picture simply because I think image "A" is a brilliant take on the challenge and deserves points for that.

As I see it, this is my "job" as a voter; to vote my own, personal preferences taking into account all the aspects of the image (technical competence, compositional purity, challenge relevance, WOW factor, etc) that come into play. It's NOT my "job" to tell people I don't think their image "met the challenge"; it's entirely possible I just don't udnerstand how it does, and as far as I'm concerned if I don't understand it it is a tenuous connection at best.

Robt.

Message edited by author 2005-09-28 14:08:17.
09/28/2005 03:00:02 PM · #14
At first I was also offended by people leaving comments like:

DNMC or Is not relevent, etc. I even got one that said, "I think this photo is boring".

They really make me laugh because I have come to realize the members here with great skill rarely ever leave disparaging comments. It is the no talent, jealous, small minded, no skill, (place your negative label here)..."people" that feel they need to leave ignorant comments for their own self-esteem.

Ha ha ha...
09/28/2005 03:27:24 PM · #15
Barndog:
So when I want to leave you a score of 1 or 2 because your photo is boring, that basically means I have no talent? Even if I do have NO talent, I can still think a picture is boring or brilliant. I certainly can't draw or paint--does that mean I should have no opinions on drawings and paintings?

If I do not think your photo meets the challenge (say a black and white photo of a shoe in a color portrait challenge), I have no talent if I tell you this?

Or did I just miss your sarcasm?
09/28/2005 03:28:14 PM · #16
OK, just a few thoughts here:

1) If you enter a challenge and ask "what do you think about this picture?" (which you are asking by entering) and someone comes back with "to me, I'm afraid it doesn't meet the challenge", how does the entrant have any more authority to say "sorry, I'm afraid it does meet the challenge". As mentioned by the poster, art is subjective.

2) That being said, if you have one comment where the person says "I'm voting you down purely because the pic doesn't meet the challenge", if the average for your pic was a 6.000, and the poster gives you a 1 instead of a 10 (it was a great pic otherwise), your score will change from a 6.014 to a 5.980). In a challenge with 275 votes, it really doesn't matter. If more than one person does the same thing, well, then you have to wonder if they don't have a point.

3) Put the shoe on the other foot. Let's say your entry into "jeans" came in 4th. The 3rd place was a picture of a beautiful naked woman with a blurry pair of jeans lying in the background corner. Would you feel jilted? How can anybody "see through the eyes" of anybody else to determine what they think the boundaries of the challenge are? We all have boundaries, and if you don't it's basically a free study. My boundary is different than your's, but there is no "absolute truth" to say who is right. We can find solace in the fact that the more extreme the view (super-narrow and super-broad) the fewer people hold them. The same person who takes the super-narrow view has taken the same view on at least 20% of the other pictures out there...

Look, I had a recent picture which was meant to be a cute 5-year old hobo running away interpreted as childhood suicide by a number of people. Can I just ask these people to get a life? Apparently my picture could have been interpreted that way. I learned now to step back and reassess my picture to see if there are other "takes".
09/28/2005 04:07:55 PM · #17
Ok...what comment did you get like that? I went back and looked at the conspiracy challenge, and your entry got 16 comments...none of them like what you are talking about. I was going to apologize if I was someone who had left that comment...but can't even find one.

Then I thought about it and came to the conclusion that if I feel it doesn't meet the challenge and I score it low....well basically it is my right to score based on my opinion, and secondly if you used a good enough caption to get the point across I would have gotten the point.

I guess it is not really fair to judge someones opinion...would you rather I scored low and didn't say why???
09/28/2005 04:10:27 PM · #18
It's likely on a current challenge...
09/28/2005 04:59:56 PM · #19
Originally posted by chaimelle:

Barndog:
So when I want to leave you a score of 1 or 2 because your photo is boring, that basically means I have no talent? Even if I do have NO talent, I can still think a picture is boring or brilliant. I certainly can't draw or paint--does that mean I should have no opinions on drawings and paintings?

If I do not think your photo meets the challenge (say a black and white photo of a shoe in a color portrait challenge), I have no talent if I tell you this?

Or did I just miss your sarcasm?


Sorry, I should have put:

+++ Insert sarcasm here ++++

Was making a joke. Actually some of the negative comments DO make me laugh. Especially the ones that go like this:

Comment 1: LOVE the DOF, it is perfect.

Followed by:

Comment 2: NO DOF at all, could be better.
09/28/2005 05:40:06 PM · #20
Some people are purely lacking in the upstairs department. My first comment said the viewer couldn't find the beverage. And, intentionally, I didn't take a photo of a beverage because that would have been too literal, so instead I took a photo of a beverage container. Haha. It made me giggle.
09/28/2005 07:27:32 PM · #21
I agree about no caring about the overall vote numbers, the thing that gets me is, for just one instance in particular, the first comment made upon my bubbles entry...



I know the photo wasn't the best it could be. In fact, it was a last minute decision to even enter it in the contest, but to say what is pictured aren't bubbles is rediculous.

Sorry, had to rant for a sec. :)

... and now back to your regularly scheduled program ...

Message edited by author 2005-09-28 19:28:22.
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