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06/11/2003 10:07:34 AM · #1 |
If I only need to vote on 20% of the photos what do the photos that I don’t vote on get. Doesn’t seem to be a complete system if I don’t have to vote on them all. Also I don’t get some people. While I am fine with my first entry coming in at 121 there were 5 people that gave it a 1.
Also I think if you’re going to give it a 1 you should be required to leave a comment.
And why should a vote be the same for these too fictions people –
Joe-Shmo, doesn’t even own a camera, and just likes giving out low scores even his comments aren’t found helpful by most
or
A 5 time ribbon winner with 60+% of his comments being helpful to the user.
I don’t think all votes are created equal.
Ahh well I may not be a smart man but I know what a one is lol just kidding |
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06/11/2003 10:14:04 AM · #2 |
well, the other dont get anything.. your average is just that.. your average.. you are required to vote on 20% so that your "influence" is evened out over more people.. you couldn't for example, give 3 10's and that's it.. or you cant just give out 3 1's either.. you have to spread out your pain or joy to more people :)
this gets important when you get people who's average vote given is 6 while others are a 4.. when they vote on all or most of the submissions, they kinda even out..
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06/11/2003 10:19:55 AM · #3 |
Ahh I see, so if
50 people give image A a 1 and
100 people give image B a 1 then image A would rate higher?
Math was never my strongest subject ;-)
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06/11/2003 10:20:07 AM · #4 |
Maybe we need a set of voting guidelines established with a tutorial much like Patella's 9 Guidelines for Giving and Receiving Feedback. This is not to say that they have to be set in stone, afterall each voter as the right to vote whichever way he/she feels fit.
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06/11/2003 10:21:00 AM · #5 |
if thats the only votes they get, both their averages are 1.
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06/11/2003 10:28:27 AM · #6 |
There should be some solution for that, but I think that can not affect results so much! I think that more affect to results has people that are giving low scores all the time without any decent comment.
I'm thinking the same, I'm going pretty bad this time even if I think I should be my average of over 4.5. It looks like some people are frustrated by getting low scores and this is the only way for them to revenge?!?!?!? Funny people. Also I respect people who are giving low scores but they leave you a comment so you can see it. But this "shy" people that are not leaving comments, it looks like they can not catch the image and they are giving low scores! I think that admin should do some kind of scan of database to see is there any reflection as getting low/giving low!
But who cares for them, when I get comment from some good photographers here, that's my score and my way to learn. Shame on them!
Message edited by author 2003-06-11 10:32:48. |
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06/11/2003 10:28:47 AM · #7 |
I didn’t want to turn this into a rant or anything but I was brought up in another post about people voting lower to raise there image. I wonder if there are user accounts here just for people to cast votes with and what not.
I wish you could see who voted what. I realize that anonymity is important but it would be nice to be able to look back and see where the votes came from.
Like if you check out a person that gives a 1 or 2 yet they don’t have any photos online you probably wouldn’t care but
If you got a lower score from the jmsetzler's of the site, that would carry more weight and I would defiantly think about the vote more.
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06/11/2003 02:26:57 PM · #8 |
I'm not sure where this thread is going. On average, good photos score well on DPC. On average, bad photos score poorly. I don't see a problem.
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06/11/2003 02:29:18 PM · #9 |
| Never said there was a problem. The thread was started because I was wondering how the voting totals worked. Since I only have to vote on 20% of the submissions I was curious how the numbers worked. |
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06/11/2003 02:41:48 PM · #10 |
I'm a picky when it comes to voting I like to try to vote on all the images at the same time that way whatever mood I am in is portrayed in all the scores given. I have voted on every single image in every challenge since I started. I understand completely what you are saying too. You are saying what too.
As for how the totals work all the votes you received are added together and then divided by number of votes to give you your average. As for those who only vote on 20% the site is suppose to rotate the images around so that everyone receives close the same number of votes. No two people vote on the images in the same order. At least thats what I was told... |
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06/11/2003 02:44:17 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Diversq:
Never said there was a problem. The thread was started because I was wondering how the voting totals worked. Since I only have to vote on 20% of the submissions I was curious how the numbers worked. |
Let's say you vote on 20 of 100 submissions. Other people vote on however many they want, but only the ones that vote on at least 20 count. So if you imagine all the photos in a column down the left, and next to that a column for each voter, with scores next to the photos they voted on, and so on. So now you go across, and for Photo 1, voter #3 gave it a 5, voter #9 gave it a 2, and voters #17 and #18 gave it an 8. Therefore, it got 4 votes, totalling 23 points. You then divide it by the number of votes to get the average: in this case 23/4, or 5.75. Now, if there were fifty voters total, but only four people voted on that particular shot, then the other voters' lack of vote doesn't affect the score one way or another. If voter #21 was waffling over voting, and would have given it a 2, but then didn't vote, then their opinion doesn't bring down the average score.
What you see in the upper-left of the homepage, the voting subtotal, as it were, shows how many individual voters left votes *on your picture*, and what the average score they gave it was. If 63 people have voted on your picture, it doesn't matter that 250 people have voted on *any* picture in the competition, because only the people who voted on *your* picture affect *your* score.
Does that help any?
Message edited by author 2003-06-11 14:46:01.
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06/11/2003 02:51:12 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by eloise:
Does that help any? |
That helps allot. I don’t know why I cared but I hate not understanding something and your really helped me to visualize how it worked. Thanks again.
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06/11/2003 02:52:54 PM · #13 |
I suspect the 20% (which I either never knew about or forgot about - the latter is very possible these days) is just a way of allowing someone who at least takes some time to cast some votes, but can't get through all of them, to have their vote count.
As far as getting 1s - almost every photo, even the best, gets at least some 1s. The reasons are sometimes unfathomable. For yours, perhaps some recovering alcoholics saw it and it just affected them badly or turned them off. You can be frustrated at their reasons, but everyone is free to vote what they want. And requiring them to leave comments, while generally may help with your frustration, would probably be a burden time-wise some wouldn't want to bear, and would just lead to a rise in the number of 2s. Everyone's scores would, on average, rise a little, but the end rankings wouldn't change much, if at all.
Who knows, maybe some people only vote 1 or 10 - I like it or I don't. Maybe some people only want to take the time to rank a picture on a three or four point system - 1/5/10 or 1/4/6/10. (I'm not advocating that, but it would make voting a lot quicker!) |
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06/11/2003 02:55:31 PM · #14 |
I do have a question along the same lines. If a voter is below the 20% mark, will his vote show up in the "My Stats" area for the respective contestent photo that he voted on, or do they get held back until 20% is reached.
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06/11/2003 02:56:16 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by Diversq:
That helps a lot. I don’t know why I cared but I hate not understanding something and your really helped me to visualize how it worked. Thanks again. |
I've had to do it on paper for various club elections and other suchlike. :-> Let me tell you, Excel (or spreadsheet software of your choice) works a lot better!
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06/11/2003 03:03:24 PM · #16 |
This is probably not very realistic, but I'd like to see all the individual scores time stamped and tabulated on the page along with the voting breakdown; further break down the breakdown if you will. That would at least show the paticipants that there was no voting irregularities, anomolies or cluster voting.
Owen
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06/11/2003 03:17:48 PM · #17 |
The 20% minimum helps ensure most photos receive at least within shouting distance of an average number of votes, when combined with the random presentation. That is, it helps keep one photo from getting 100 votes while another gets 40 and another only get 10, so that any given vote has roughly the same weight in the score for one picture as it does in the score for another.
(If you only have 10 votes each vote carries a much higher weight towards the average than if you have 100, that is.)
In practice it probably still works out to at least a 10-15% deviation in number of votes above or below the average but that's better than a 50% deviation. Someone with a lot more math than I have could probably derive a formula for this, but that would probably be silly. |
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06/11/2003 03:21:06 PM · #18 |
I agree with Owen, although I don’t care when they voted I would like to know more about the voters them selves. Like:
Women with cameras average vote
Men with cameras average vote
Women without cameras average vote
Men without cameras average vote
Perhaps age, general area or even country, an average of people with the camera you own, home telephone(just kidding) and that type of thing.
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06/11/2003 03:46:27 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Diversq:
I agree with Owen, although I don’t care when they voted I would like to know more about the voters them selves. Like:
Women with cameras average vote
Men with cameras average vote
Women without cameras average vote
Men without cameras average vote
Perhaps age, general area or even country, an average of people with the camera you own, home telephone(just kidding) and that type of thing. |
I see where you're coming from, you want the demographics.
The idea behind time stamping would be so that we, the participants, can see real-time if someone is trying to circumvent the voting system. What's to prevent, let's say a network admin. at Any Company Ltd., Anywhere, Any Country, to set up dummy accounts to skew the voting. Or to prevent a kid at Any College, Any Town, Any Country in a computer lab with his/her buddies from bombing the voting system just for kicks. I'm not implying that anybody here is doing that, really. We have a fine group of individuals in this online community. My idea is simply a way to make it more transparent to the participants. Also keep in mind smaller, lesser known sites have been sabotaged. I'm sorry if I sound alarmist. :)
Owen
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06/11/2003 03:58:01 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Diversq:
I agree with Owen, although I don’t care when they voted I would like to know more about the voters them selves. Like:
Women with cameras average vote
Men with cameras average vote
Women without cameras average vote
Men without cameras average vote
Perhaps age, general area or even country, an average of people with the camera you own, home telephone(just kidding) and that type of thing. |
Good idea! I vote for the following:
Members average vote
Non-members average vote
Purple shirts average vote
People that submitted flower and pet shots average vote...
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06/11/2003 04:02:27 PM · #21 |
To jerrft - your votes show up on someone's updated score as soon as you vote, but they don't COUNT til you've voted on 20% for that week. This insures you don't email all your friends, have them sign up and vote a 10 on your one picture, then never come back to the site. Their vote wouldn't count and while 11:59 Tuesday night you'd be happy, 12:01 Wednesday morning you'd be pretty disappointed. :)
M
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06/11/2003 04:06:35 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by jerrft:
Good idea! I vote for the following:
Members average vote
Non-members average vote
Purple shirts average vote
People that submitted flower and pet shots average vote... |
Well I prefer blue shirts but if you do that you have to have a spot for Hawaiian shirts as well. Then you'll probably get complaints about not having a topless average (which im all for ;-) |
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06/11/2003 04:09:00 PM · #23 |
Statistician I'm not, but I would think it would take several dummy accounts/voting friends to affect a score significantly. If someone goes to that much trouble to get a virtual ribbon, I worry more about their priorities and goals in life, than their basic dishonesty at that point.
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