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09/24/2005 11:10:42 AM · #1 |
What a world we live in... the most hideous use of photography I've ever come across.
//www.eastbayexpress.com/Issues/2005-09-21/news/news.html |
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09/24/2005 11:26:18 AM · #2 |
The titles on the photos are horrifying...
But that's the problem with war in general. It dehumanizes the enemy, on both sides. |
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09/24/2005 11:27:24 AM · #3 |
There are a lot of sick people in this world...
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09/24/2005 11:36:04 AM · #4 |
not to add gasoline to an open flame here... but as Armelle said... war does dehumanize. Those pictures are generally the result of a way to cope with stress and the like.
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09/24/2005 11:42:44 AM · #5 |
| I can't imagine in any way how it is acceptable to send photos of dead and maimed people with insulting comments. Even if that was the whole story, this is simply wrong. But the fact that these images are being traded for porn does not show me there is theraputic value in this. It's just the most ugly side of humanity. |
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09/24/2005 11:55:09 AM · #6 |
The fact that wars dehumanize the enemy IS the reason to prevent them in the first place!!! There is no place for this kind of warfare in the 21 century...
Humans still have a lot of evolving to do if we think of ourselves as enlightened compared to other species. |
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09/24/2005 11:59:54 AM · #7 |
| I am in the military and I think that is disgusting!!!! |
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09/24/2005 12:04:46 PM · #8 |
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09/24/2005 12:05:44 PM · #9 |
this is the method to bring 'democracy' to the middle east ..
yes i see it now ...
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09/24/2005 12:18:31 PM · #10 |
| Photography of this sort DOES have it's place...on the evening news where the masses can see it, not on some pornographic web site where only the morbidly curious and sick minds will view. Wasn't photographs of the Viet Nam war one of the major factors that helped to bring down the US military machine? I don't know about GB, but in the US we are shown mostly sanitized and officially sanctioned images. We need to see what really happens! |
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09/24/2005 12:53:06 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by Olyuzi:
Photography of this sort DOES have it's place...on the evening news where the masses can see it, not on some pornographic web site where only the morbidly curious and sick minds will view. Wasn't photographs of the Viet Nam war one of the major factors that helped to bring down the US military machine? I don't know about GB, but in the US we are shown mostly sanitized and officially sanctioned images. We need to see what really happens! |
There's a difference between photos which are newsworthy and snapshots of gloating asshole US mavericks smiling over the dead body of a father, brother and friend that they just finished killing.
These photos should be in the news but only to reveal the attitude shown in the photos...which means the story is now about the photos and soldiers rather than the war itself.
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09/24/2005 01:04:37 PM · #12 |
There's nothing new about this "low"; the pornography of violence has been with us for quite a while. It's only recently that mass distribution via the internet has been possible, but the phenomenon is not new.
It's not just restricted to photography either. Necklaces of ears cut from the corpses of your slain enemies are the same sort of thing in my mind, for example. Lynched corpses left hanging in trees. Whatever. One weeps for the human condition when one contemplates it with blinders off.
R.
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09/24/2005 01:35:12 PM · #13 |
"gloating asshole US mavericks smiling over the dead body of a father, brother and friend"
The photos are disgusting, and these soldiers deserve to be discharged (and IMO beaten and castrated... sick bastards). BUT I think your sentimentalization of the dead Iraqi's isn't helping. I can deal with intelligent pacifism but painting anyone trampled by the US war machine as a peace-loving father/brother/son is nonsense if you remember the burnt bodies of contractors (people working to rebuild Iraq... not soldiers) being dragged through the streets amongst a throng of cheering people.
You don't know who these guys are. They may have been joe family-man or they may have been the leader of an Iraqi lynch-mob... Making assumptions for the sake of an argument takes away from the validity of other points which might be presented. Stick to the fact that the act of taking, naming, and posting photos like this is disgusting, inexcusable, and (arguably) representative of a greater problem growing (Abu Ghraib) amongst the US soldiers in Iraq. |
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09/24/2005 01:52:10 PM · #14 |
If you took a random group of 100,000 people in this country do you expect they would all be like you? Or would you likely come up with a rapist or two, some child molestors, maybe a murderer?
Out of all the service people we have over there, 99.9% are decent humans who are under more stress in 1 hour than you will ever be under in your entire damned lives, so maybe try not to categorize our entire army with one stroke of your pen.
There will always be a small percentage of people who can't seem to contain their own stupidity, and the people doing this are no execption. My guess is they could not handle the stress load, and the COMMON occurrance of trying to dehumanize the enemy to cope with the facts of having to kill them is what's going on. Not an excuse, but it happens with every war. Some people can handle it fine, others can't and do stupid things, others go completely nuts and never recover for the rest of their lives.
Try to at least realize this is a TINY number of a HUGE group. |
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09/24/2005 01:53:45 PM · #15 |
This sort of sickness is the inevitable result of a war where a soldier has to de-humanise the enemy in order to carry out his orders or insure his survival. Through out history when an army faces an insurgency that is impossible to seperate from the general population, the population as a whole must be seen as less than human if the soldiers are going to be able to cope with their task. This is the face of an un equal war, alway has been always will be. |
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09/24/2005 01:59:36 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by rscorp:
If you took a random group of 100,000 people in this country do you expect they would all be like you? Or would you likely come up with a rapist or two, some child molestors, maybe a murderer?
Out of all the service people we have over there, 99.9% are decent humans who are under more stress in 1 hour than you will ever be under in your entire damned lives, so maybe try not to categorize our entire army with one stroke of your pen.
There will always be a small percentage of people who can't seem to contain their own stupidity, and the people doing this are no execption. My guess is they could not handle the stress load, and the COMMON occurrance of trying to dehumanize the enemy to cope with the facts of having to kill them is what's going on. Not an excuse, but it happens with every war. Some people can handle it fine, others can't and do stupid things, others go completely nuts and never recover for the rest of their lives.
Try to at least realize this is a TINY number of a HUGE group. |
That is very well put. |
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09/24/2005 02:22:26 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by ShorterThanJesus:
"gloating asshole US mavericks smiling over the dead body of a father, brother and friend"
The photos are disgusting, and these soldiers deserve to be discharged (and IMO beaten and castrated... sick bastards). BUT I think your sentimentalization of the dead Iraqi's isn't helping. I can deal with intelligent pacifism but painting anyone trampled by the US war machine as a peace-loving father/brother/son is nonsense if you remember the burnt bodies of contractors (people working to rebuild Iraq... not soldiers) being dragged through the streets amongst a throng of cheering people.
You don't know who these guys are. They may have been joe family-man or they may have been the leader of an Iraqi lynch-mob... |
I don't see any sentimentalization in that. Saddam Hussein, for example, is a "father, brother, friend" isn't he? Just because someone does something unspeakable (even assuming the dead soldiers HAD done such a thing) doesn't mean they don't have family that love them.
Robt.
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09/24/2005 02:25:49 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by rscorp:
... There will always be a small percentage of people who can't seem to contain their own stupidity, and the people doing this are no execption. My guess is they could not handle the stress load, and the COMMON occurrance of trying to dehumanize the enemy to cope with the facts of having to kill them is what's going on. Not an excuse, but it happens with every war. Some people can handle it fine, others can't and do stupid things, others go completely nuts and never recover for the rest of their lives.
Try to at least realize this is a TINY number of a HUGE group. |
And also realize war doesn't have anything to do with this. I coud name a dozen people I've met in the past 10 years of working the daily grind that would do something like this.
There are going to be many, many photos of this sort in the next few months -- just like every year -- hunting season starts soon. Those soldiers are just hunting a different prey -- one that is also hunting them. They are displaying their prize -- the same as any huntsman or fisherman as done by having a their picture taken with the remains of whatever they have recently defeated.
The only difference is the prey -- most aren't in a position requiring them to hunt their own kind.
David
Message edited by author 2005-09-24 14:27:03.
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09/24/2005 02:27:20 PM · #19 |
Wow..
Originally posted by Britannica:
Originally posted by rscorp:
... There will always be a small percentage of people who can't seem to contain their own stupidity, and the people doing this are no execption. My guess is they could not handle the stress load, and the COMMON occurrance of trying to dehumanize the enemy to cope with the facts of having to kill them is what's going on. Not an excuse, but it happens with every war. Some people can handle it fine, others can't and do stupid things, others go completely nuts and never recover for the rest of their lives.
Try to at least realize this is a TINY number of a HUGE group. |
And also realize war doesn't have anything to do with this. I coud name a dozen people I've met in the past 10 years of working the daily grind that would do something like this.
There are going to be many, many photos of this sort in the next few months -- just like every year -- hunting season starts soon. Those soldiers are just hunting a different prey -- one that is also hunting them. They are displaying their prize -- the same as any huntsman or fisherman as done by having a their picture taken with the remains of whatever they have recently defeated.
The only difference is the prey -- most aren't in a position requiring them to hunt their own kind.
David |
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09/24/2005 02:46:45 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
I can't imagine in any way how it is acceptable to send photos of dead and maimed people with insulting comments. Even if that was the whole story, this is simply wrong. But the fact that these images are being traded for porn does not show me there is theraputic value in this. It's just the most ugly side of humanity. |
Perhaps you should research something (a magazine article) before you spout off about it. Please don't tell me you're one of these people that believes everything you read??? I read the article and I went to the website and looked through what it was referring to.
To start a thread like this you should have started it in the RANT thread. However there are people in this world that 'thrive' on the drama....guess you fall into that group.
I know I'm personally tired of all the America bashing. We're war-mongers, we're HUGE world pollutants.....hell, (nice pun) God has even got it out for us because of the hurricanes. *shaking my head*
Thank God for the 'ignore button. I will go use it now.
Message edited by author 2005-09-24 14:47:07. |
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09/24/2005 03:17:17 PM · #21 |
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09/24/2005 03:30:30 PM · #22 |
moved thread to "Rant", I think it is better there than under photography discussion.
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09/25/2005 08:18:00 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:
WTF? |
Make mine a double.
About the topic:
Payments of mutilation for free access to porn?
I think that web guy is a nutter and belongs in a treatment program. |
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09/28/2005 08:35:09 AM · #24 |
New York Times article on that exact topic:
Article |
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09/28/2005 08:44:20 AM · #25 |
| Thanks for the link... good to see it will be dealt with. |
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