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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> My self-disqualification
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09/11/2005 06:59:59 PM · #1
SC,
Please withdraw/disqualify my entry in the “Branch” Challenge. It is an image of an existing work of art, “White Branches, Mono Lake, Ca, 1950” by Ansel Adams.

I chose a lesser known work by Adams, knowing that while some voters would recognize the photograph, many more would not and therefore treat it as a legitimate entry. This insured an honestly motivated, but typically varied response to the photograph that any challenge offers. After nearly 300 views. the beauty of Adams work was not questioned by any commentors and many (who thought this was an original piece) felt this work was of exceptional quality, indicating that there are many voters on this site with discerning eye. But along with celebrators of the piece’s beauty, were offers of where best “my image” should be cropped/expanded, lightened/darkened, sharpened/softened, enhanced/diminished in order to appease the commentor.

I did not submit this with the attempt of competing in the challenge and intended all along to withdraw the submission on Sunday after returning home from a planned trip to the ocean. Nor was my intention to embarass any commentor or degrade their opinion. I intentionally did not look at the names of any of the commentors. So what WAS my motivation? I have read many forum threads in which disappointed photographers of various experince levels share in exasperation upon reading comments made about their submissions that suggest they did something wrong. My intent is offered to molify that exasperation by showing that even Ansel Adams work might not be fully appreciated by everyone, while his talent certainly is recognized by all on this site. I felt this ruse a way of enlightening those who feel discouraged by negative comments as to the validity (actually non-validity) of some comments received during scoring of a challenge. Corrective opinions are, at best, opinions. At worst, taken to heart as an indication the photographer has made a mistake. In fact, I feel that if someone has prepared their best image for entry into a competitive challenge, it deserves respectful comments based upon its merits or lack thereof depending on the score given. Commentors must take their own photography expertise and level of compentency into account when they choose the wording for their offered comments. The most valid comments begin with, “I like (don’t like) this because ..... .” and fill in the blank with responses and feelings produced by the image. This speaks more to the commentor than the photographer, which is the best critiques can accomplish. Opinions on physical corrections to the image should be confined to cases where the submittor requests corrective opinions through a forum thread entry (such as “Individual Photograph Discussion”) or upon prevailing the Critique Club for corrections.

Of course I recognize that I may be taken to task for this tactic and for my viewpoint; but my hope is that those offended will understand my motives are promotion of this artform by strengthening the resolve of artists on this site, new or experienced, and that they may be happier with their work as submitted. Afterall, if Ansel Adams has a score of 5.9 on Sunday, there is hope for us all. I guarantee I will never submit another photographer’s work again. I welcome and will abide by any disciplinary action the SC feels is appropriate.

I will submit a copy of this letter to the forum thread, “Current Challenge” for general purusal. Sincerely, Ron Beam
09/11/2005 07:02:00 PM · #2
interesting.
09/11/2005 07:04:32 PM · #3
Originally posted by kyebosh:

interesting.


My thoughts exactly.
09/11/2005 07:06:52 PM · #4
Originally posted by kyebosh:

interesting.


I'd go more with disappointing.
09/11/2005 07:08:13 PM · #5




Message edited by author 2005-09-11 19:30:14.
09/11/2005 07:18:04 PM · #6
All that's been proved is that a poor, digital version, of a photographic print with incorrect contrast and no sharpness won't score as well as sharp, properly processed, digital photos.

As for the statement that comments should not offer suggestions for changes, I strongly disagree. If someone said "I don't like this because of the composition", surely the recipient would learn much more if the commenter offered advice on how to possibly improve the composition.
09/11/2005 07:21:57 PM · #7
I agree - The contrast/sharpness is not the same as that on ansel adams gallery.. looks like this was extrapolated somehow to get a larger image?
09/11/2005 07:25:10 PM · #8

This is nothing but game playing. Do we really want people playing games here? I joined this site becasue I felt I could grow and learn from the many respectable photogs here. I lose respect when this kind of crap happens.

Perhaps the image should not be all that is DQ'd - but the game player from the site also. Harsh? Yep - tough crap.

- Linda
09/11/2005 07:26:31 PM · #9
Thats pretty lame on your part. You should be banned for life.
09/11/2005 07:30:19 PM · #10
Why didn't you go thru d&l like bear_music did before?
09/11/2005 07:35:51 PM · #11
Lame.
09/11/2005 07:36:13 PM · #12
For the record, this would NOT be a self Disqualification, since it had been drawn to our attention previously. We had requested proof on the image (haha) and were waiting for any type of response. Aparently, this is the response we got. The image WOULD have been DQed either way. To be honest, I'm discusted.
Since the user decided to take it upon himself to make this a public issue, I feel comfortable posting my public opinion.
09/11/2005 07:39:28 PM · #13
It was an interesting test - 5.9 is ok, but even when it WAS done before, it didn't blow anyone's doors off. We're all just taking pichers.
09/11/2005 07:40:49 PM · #14
Dude! Get a hobby! WTF? How about this one?---take photographs--your own.
09/11/2005 07:43:30 PM · #15
Surely it is possible to have an opinion on how one would prefer to see/change a piece of art and not just say "I like it because it is by a famous artist and therefore it must be perfect".
I love the Mona Lisa but find the background uninspiring, I wish Leonardo had painted her in a different setting. This does not make a further judgement on the artwork, merely points out how the work would be better appreciated by me as an individual.

So I would give da Vinci 9/10 with that comment!

This little exercise is nothing more than a way of playing games with the site and trying to prove a point that everyone else accepts - we judge each entry from our own point of view, make comments we think may be helpful,knowing the photographer will consider them and either use the idea in the future or discard it with a few choice words. I don't know what they say about my comments so I shall go on commenting in my very amateur fashion but in the best way I can.

Sorry Ron but this was pointless and demeaning to the site.
Pauline
09/11/2005 07:44:03 PM · #16
What I found interesting is the score I gave it, hi or low, makes you think. Still, this challenge had a theme and when that picture was created, the theme may not have been the intention. That does make a difference. I am fairly new here but it seems if you are going to place a picture, ANY picture here, it would do better if it was for the challenge purpose. The deceiving is just wrong.
09/11/2005 07:47:37 PM · #17
Not to mention all the people who scored it low because it's a stollen image.
09/11/2005 07:48:45 PM · #18
By the way did Adams enter it originally in a "branch" challenge? Was this the purpose of his picture? If not perhaps it was not considered in the box!!!!
P
09/11/2005 07:58:13 PM · #19
When I first read and thought about his post I was thinking 'he may have a point in some areas, but not all.' Afterall, I get comments all the time about how 'oversharpend' a picture looks when no sharpening has been applied at all and it makes me wonder what that person is seeing. BUT...after a while (I read his post before any commnets were posted other than the first one of 'interesting' and the while is coming back now to comment) I have to agree with the general opinion in this thread - LAME! It is demeaning and somewhat insulting to the collective here. Not to mention dishonest and theft of an image (something I feel strongly about on the AGAINST it side).

Is this against the TOS?
09/11/2005 08:03:14 PM · #20
I'm with you Ron, and most certainly against those who think this is somehow demeaning and degrading; We should remember, every time we leave a comment, that the photographer whose work we're commenting on may be far far above our perception and comprehension. However, from recent events, I don't expect the site as a whole to accept that as a possibility - there's a an arrogance of opinion here that ill becomes the place these days.

e
09/11/2005 08:05:58 PM · #21
Originally posted by Alienyst:

Is this against the TOS?


Yes, it certainly is.
09/11/2005 08:08:31 PM · #22
Originally posted by e301:

I'm with you Ron, and most certainly against those who think this is somehow demeaning and degrading; We should remember, every time we leave a comment, that the photographer whose work we're commenting on may be far far above our perception and comprehension. However, from recent events, I don't expect the site as a whole to accept that as a possibility - there's a an arrogance of opinion here that ill becomes the place these days.

e


Ed, on your profile you say "I have no objection to being contacted in re my comments during challenges - in fact I rather like it: the sense of dialogue is useful. "

So how can I comment on any photographer's work when I know 99.9% of them are better than me? The commenting helps me even if it doesn't help them! You see I agree with you that "the sense of dialogue is useful"!
P

09/11/2005 08:11:38 PM · #23
Originally posted by scalvert:

Yes, it certainly is.


Thought so...

EDIT: Yes..Section 4.2 right? 4.2 You will not use the DPChallenge.com Service to post content or to design, manufacture, market or sell a Product that (i) infringes the rights of a third party, including, without limitation, copyrights, trademarks, patents, trade secrets, rights of privacy and publicity,

Message edited by author 2005-09-11 20:17:06.
09/11/2005 08:15:00 PM · #24
I think this is lame too. If we wanted to critique a famous photographer's work, it could have been done in a forum post, not as a challenge entry. Tsk tsk tsk.
09/11/2005 08:15:13 PM · #25
Originally posted by Alienyst:

When I first read and thought about his post I was thinking 'he may have a point in some areas, but not all.' Afterall, I get comments all the time about how 'oversharpend' a picture looks when no sharpening has been applied at all and it makes me wonder what that person is seeing.


I like to blame people's (lack of) monitor calibration for many of my "color off" "over/undersharpened" etc. woes with commentary. My D&L challenge and the number of folks claiming my *very* yellow lemons and cup proved to me that where I and PS see yellow some see a variety of other colors.

As for this situation, I find it a very interesting study in human nature, the original situation and now what is ensuing because of his little "test". I think that anything that makes us question ourselves and our voting practices and call into question how we score one another should be given a valid forum. I am not sure if I feel that his little ruse was appropriate, in fact the copying of a master's image leaves a bad taste in my mouth but at the same time many voters DO seem to vote in a knee jerk reactive manner after viewing their scores. I cannot explain why some of the most lovely images on this site sometimes do not get their due...
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