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09/09/2005 01:31:52 PM · #76
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Don't bother with all that wimpy, feel-good, New-Agey stuff -- go straight to Leviticus to get a real feel for life under a Just and Merciful God ...


I recommend Leviticus as well...it will provide a great context for a lot of what Jesus talks about as he presents a 'new convenant'...one that pisses off a lot of jewish religious leaders who would rather focus on the 'punishment & rules' side of the laws in leviticus. Jesus had harsh words for them.
09/09/2005 01:33:48 PM · #77
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

... religious leaders who would rather focus on the 'punishment & rules' side of the laws in leviticus. Jesus had harsh words for them.

Good for Him! Maybe He should have a personal chat with Pat Robertson : )
09/09/2005 01:37:46 PM · #78
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

... religious leaders who would rather focus on the 'punishment & rules' side of the laws in leviticus. Jesus had harsh words for them.

Good for Him! Maybe He should have a personal chat with Pat Robertson : )


Shit, he's probably trying...
09/09/2005 01:39:57 PM · #79
Seems while I was writing my comment, some others had something to say about the comments about the Mormons.

I hope nobody feels that I have made a slam against the Mormons in my message. I was only writing my feelings based on my conversations with them. I grew up in Canada and live currently in Taiwan. There are a lot of mormons plying their trade on bicycles through the streets. I have been low on patience with them recently, so I don't talk as much as I once did, but I have had quite a few conversations with them. Each time I have talked to them, I have asked them a question about their beliefs such as "what do you believe about....?" I have never been explained anything from the Bible. Any time I have mentioned what I was pretty sure the Bible said, the comment was brushed aside because of "new wineskins" etc. When I press the matter, I am told the same thing every single time. We do not believe what the Bible says in that case, we prefer to believe our own book.

This includes such issues as God being impartial to the races, Jesus's two greatest commandments on loving God and neighbor and not going to kill them, being involved in politics and not using TITLES for names. There were other issues which are particular to my own set of beliefs which are not important here. I think that anyone who believes the Bible is from God would agree on those few rather major points.

I was actually told by one elder that he believed that Jesus really did say that we should love our neighbor and love our enemies as ourselves, yet this was a lie.

Hence, I do not intent to be inflammatory or attacking mormons, but I do stand by my statement that they do not accept the Bible as a true authority, so outside of the Bible, they have nothing to contribute.

To prevent this from becoming a rant, I have said my peice.
09/09/2005 01:40:53 PM · #80
Reading scripture is a very personal thing. However,

there are certain items that can build a foundation for the rest. The Bible can be read as a historical text, philosophical text, and/or a spiritual text. You will read it differently (meaning with greater understanding) as you mature in the word. First a babe is fed with milk then moves on to pureyed foods, then solid, then full meals. So it is with reading scripture.

I am of the opinion that it matters not which bible you read. Just as long as the sentences are understandable to you. Meaning, that after analyzing a Jerusalem Study Bible, A king James, A collegiate study bible and a NIV (new international version), I decided that there was not enough difference between them and the NIV was the easiest for me to understand, so it was the NIV that I chose to "mark up immensely".

A foundational understanding can be gleaned (IMO) from reading the 4 gospels (1st 4 books of the new testament)- Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. If you are fortunate enough to have a "red letter edition" then you can see for your self what words are direct quotes of Christ. This was important to me, but may not be to you. There is also a book (i will get the ISBN # later) that takes all four gospels and allows you to read them as 4 independent books or as one continuous book (I believe it is called a "Harmony of the 4 Gospels"). It also allows you see the differences between gospels as they relate to the various views of the authors. Once you have a solid foundation of Chirst's actual words (red letter quotes), then a better understanding of the rest of the bible's books can be studied. A book from the Apocrapha called "Ecclesiasticus" was enjoyable to me, however not all denominations include this book in their bible.

A couple of other books that may be of interest depending on how deeply you care to get involved, is a Strong's Concordance and a book on Denominations.

Good luck in you search for answers. They are certainly there to be found.

Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened. Ask and you shall receive.

Message edited by author 2005-09-09 13:52:31.
09/09/2005 01:48:47 PM · #81
Originally posted by eschelar:


PS. This message is not intended to start an argument, but it is a caveat against putting too much trust in what is said by a guy who spells "Jehovah" - a very commonly known and used transliteration along with it's hebrew counterpart "Yahweh or Yehowah", as 'Johova'. Don't take either of our words for it. Look it up in a handful of encyclopedias.

ist Tut mier leid(it is german for I am sorry)... So I can't spell in 2 languages very well, it does not make my comments any less correct or educated. It is just a matter of fact that I dont pay much attetion to spelling while I excelled in math, physics, psychology, grammer, history,and lit spelling has never been my strong suit. And as a point of refrence the Jehovah Whitness King James verison is only accepted by the members of that faith as others recgonize their version as the "Altered" version. I however agree with you on the LDS information.

Also Some one else stated that most translations are based off the King James version. This is innacurate many of them if not most go back to the greek and hebrew lexicons which are basically the same "orginal" texts the KJ was translated from.
09/09/2005 02:21:30 PM · #82
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

... religious leaders who would rather focus on the 'punishment & rules' side of the laws in leviticus. Jesus had harsh words for them.

Good for Him! Maybe He should have a personal chat with Pat Robertson : )


Shit, he's probably trying...


If I wasn't trying to get my kids to sleep, I would have laughed out loud at this.

I may anyway.

:)
09/09/2005 02:42:34 PM · #83
I thought this thread said Holy bibble, I was expecting to find info on bibble in hear not the bible since this is a photography site...
09/09/2005 02:44:21 PM · #84
Originally posted by MeThoS:

I thought this thread said Holy bibble, I was expecting to find info on bibble in hear not the bible since this is a photography site...


Thanks for sharing your mis-read.
09/09/2005 02:50:04 PM · #85
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Originally posted by MeThoS:

I thought this thread said Holy bibble, I was expecting to find info on bibble in hear not the bible since this is a photography site...


Thanks for sharing your mis-read.


Your welcome.
09/09/2005 02:57:29 PM · #86
<from karmat the sc member, not karmat the thread participant>

Please, in order to keep this thread civil (as it has done surprisingly well, so far) refrain from posting negativity about a specific "religion," "doctrine," or "denomination." The question was about the Bible, and while the responses so far are 98% on topic (and no that is not a scientific number), let's not degenerate into "this one is right/best, so you are wrong type thing." We have other threads for that. :)

Thank you, and now to your regularly scheduled rant.
09/09/2005 02:59:13 PM · #87
I have to say I'm impressed with the number of people with intelligent opinions on what to read...

My 0.02

Start with a Gospel:
Matthew is a traditional favorite and is easy to read.
Mark is the shortest and the most straightforward.
Luke is written in a more narrative form with some interesting details about the society and times.
John is the most difficult to grasp as it is the most mystical.

Next:
Read Romans. Paul is a huge influence on our faith and Romans is often considered his ultimate work.

While you are doing either above:
Read some Psalms. Psalms has great emotion and displays all sides of how we may feel, from praise to being upset with God.

If you want some real meat and are up for a challenge:
Isaiah. It has a fair amount of old testament "calling out" of evildoers, but it is often considered the "old testament new testament". It would be best to read some background about the time and situation first or many names and alluded events will just fly over you. However, it is easy to see "God's plan" in Isaiah hundreds of years before it occured.

If I was on a desert island and could only bring a few books of the bible. :)... I'd bring Matthew, Romans, Psalms and Isaiah.
09/09/2005 03:13:56 PM · #88
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

it is easy to see "God's plan" in Isaiah hundreds of years before it occured.


The books you have mentioned above are reagood books to read, Isaiah and Jeramiah are both good.

One thing I would like to bring out from what I have quoted from your post Dr is that there are many things still to happen that is recorded in Isaiah, so it is not just hundreds but a few thousand years before they occure.

I would just also like to say that this is been a most informative chat that we are having here, nad it has supprised me in a good way the variety of the ages of those who have posted, from quite young people to those who are a little more mature (nice way of saying old (sorry) lol).

One of the books I most like to read and study in the Revelation, a book of sign and symbol, it is very hard to understand and I far from know all that there is to know about it and the rest of the Bible.

There are many things that we can read about in the history of the world, that has happened in the past 500 to 1000 years that can be seen as fulfilment of prophosies from both the Old and New Testaments.

If any one wants a copy of the Bible plan I use to do my daily reading with just pm me with your email address and I will send you one over, I find a structured way of reading the Bible helps with understanding it.

I posted this address earlier but for any new comers to this thread here it is again - The Appostolic Fellowship of Christ , this is the group of people I belong to help further my knowledge and understanding of the Bible and the message that is held within it's pages.
09/09/2005 03:16:51 PM · #89
i'm almost finished reading The Word of God by Walter Wangerin, Jr. It is the Bible, rewritten in the form of a novel. Absolutely fascinating read. It really makes the Bible accessible, without trivializing it.

Message edited by author 2005-09-09 15:17:01.
09/09/2005 03:28:14 PM · #90
i was raised Christian .. and have all religions within my family... Catholic, Church of Christ, Judaism, a Morman here or there and Jehovas Witness'. When you here what it is that everyone is talking about.. you have to remember one very important thing. Religion as a whole is interpretive... not a bad thing. People through the centuries have heard things and decided whether it made sense to them or not. God created everything and Jesus was his son who died on a cross for our sins--- now thats my belief.. but in a family discussion about religion -- whoa nelly. So I took it upon myself to learn about alot of religions.. that doesn't mean I study all of these books. I went through some of the texts and said okay um that makes sense and that does and ummm no lost me there. Its all relative -- if someone doesn't understand the bible.. maybe its not for them.. it would be narrow minded of me to say that what I believe is right...but I do feel that we should all believe in something that makes us feel good and shapes us into better people and helps us explain life and of course death. It took me a long time to get to that.
09/09/2005 11:04:14 PM · #91
Originally posted by Flash:

There is also a book (i will get the ISBN # later) that takes all four gospels and allows you to read them as 4 independent books or as one continuous book (I believe it is called a "Harmony of the 4 Gospels").


The ISBN# is: 0-8010-2974-0

Author: Orville E. Daniel
09/09/2005 11:21:21 PM · #92
I was raised Catholic, so i never read the Bible. 12 years of catholic school, and the first 3 had daily mass. Religion classes for all 12 years too. I was even an altar boy.

When i got into HS i began to ask questions. The one I asked that changed everything was "Why must we eat abstain from meat on Fridays?" I was expecting an answer with deep religious meaning, or at least some religious meaning. The Brother that (a Fransiscan Brother) that was teaching that day actually answered honestly - "The Catholic Church had a large financial interest in the fishing industry at they time this rule was made". I have since verified this as true.

From that moment on organized religion, in any form, has vey little value to me. I see it, and most of those that follow as hypocrits.

I am spiritual, but not religious.

A few years ago I found out there are various bibles. Not just the translations, but catholic and protestant contain different books. And then there are a whole set of Gospels that were left out completely for what historians claim are either political or sexist reasons.

Man has interfered too much.
09/09/2005 11:30:08 PM · #93
I hear what you're saying, Chris...

But, I want to see for myself, I know all about the whole 'faith' thing, and it's hard for me. I want to be one of those people that just KNOWS and who can feel God and have him LEAD me in the right direction. I don't know exactly how to get to that point, but I'm definately going to try.

--

I pretty much live my life pissed off all the time. I'm an angry person. If someone makes me mad, I don't hesitate to say something to them. I've been in fights for little to no reason at all other than someone pissed me off or I pissed someone off...I really need to grow up, and I really need to find calmness and start thinking about my future, and my future wife and future family.

Like I said, I don't know where to find it, but I'm looking. And I don't know about the churches in my area, they all seem to be HUGE million dollar establishments where you're frowned upon if you don't give as much money as the guy next to you...where the pastor or preacher or whatever drives a Lexus and all that sort of thing...I'd probably attend a 'church service' or get-together if it was like in some guy's basement and there were like 10 people and no one EXPECTED you to give money...and if someone did give money, it was done anonymously...but I wouldn't even know where to look.

I'm going to try and learn as much as I can and just find that way...then maybe get my girlfriend into it with me.
09/09/2005 11:33:05 PM · #94
Oh, also...

For all my life, it's been hard for me to believe. You see that one lady or guy that lost everything or whatever, but still stands firm and strong and knows that the Lord is going to provide them with everything they lost, and just knows that everything will be ok...that's the way I want to be.

EDIT: whether you call it an illusion or a false-belief, that's fine...but it seems to be working, and like I said, I want to find out for myself.

Message edited by author 2005-09-09 23:33:40.
09/09/2005 11:38:21 PM · #95
I'll mention two things deapee. First thing is a very good website at //www.biblegateway.com. It makes it easy to search words or phrases and also to compare different Bible translations.

Second, I suggest you start by reading ROMANS, and I also suggest that you buy a commentary to help you through that book. Paul's letter to the Romans is a good bridge between the law of the Old Testament and the new covenant of salvation by faith in Jesus the Messiah found in the New Testament. I advise you to try to understand the book of Romans as a whole. Paul lays out an argument throughout the entire book, and sometimes people make a mistake by extracting a point he is making without seeing how it fits into the whole argument.

If you're so inclined, why not go ahead and ask God for His
help, too, even if you aren't exactly a believer. Good luck in your search.
09/09/2005 11:42:26 PM · #96
My wife 'made' me join a church. We have kids now and she wants them to attend. I can't relaly argue, now can I?

She was raised catholic until her parents divorced and then 'turned' lutheran (see, the catholic upbringing? it comes out all the time). We visited many local churches - of all denominations. We joined the local Lutheran church - the people are very friendly and the pastor sounds like Mr Rogers. It is not wealthy...it is financially ill. Not a growing church, not a young church (member wise).

I had a brush with 'christianity' (the born again kind). I dated a BA christian. She was very much a hypocrit (to me - either you follow ALL of the teachings of Jesus or none - you can't just pick and choose to suit your mood). She did give me a NIV Bible taht i did try and read some of. Like other posts here, I found it a bit boring and hard to follow. I prefer the movie verions of the classic bible stories.

This is an intersting site (link to the quiz pages).
This quiz will align your beliefs with various religions. Not a perfect quiz (i wanted other options for answers) but it does show lots of possibilities.

I have my beliefs - right or wrong, and my theory of the creation of the universe. Yes, we are created in the image of the Creator. However, that Creator is an alien and earth is a great big DNA test tube. So yes, we are descended from monkeys - the dinosaur experiment got canceled.

Look at that guy out there all alone in left field - hey he has a camera!
09/09/2005 11:53:07 PM · #97
Originally posted by deapee:


Like I said, I don't know where to find it, but I'm looking. And I don't know about the churches in my area, they all seem to be HUGE million dollar establishments where you're frowned upon if you don't give as much money as the guy next to you...where the pastor or preacher or whatever drives a Lexus and all that sort of thing...I'd probably attend a 'church service' or get-together if it was like in some guy's basement and there were like 10 people and no one EXPECTED you to give money...and if someone did give money, it was done anonymously...but I wouldn't even know where to look.


Your statement made me think of these verses.... seems like God agrees with you on that point!
09/10/2005 12:10:09 AM · #98
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:


I have my beliefs - right or wrong, and my theory of the creation of the universe. Yes, we are created in the image of the Creator. However, that Creator is an alien and earth is a great big DNA test tube. So yes, we are descended from monkeys - the dinosaur experiment got canceled.

Look at that guy out there all alone in left field - hey he has a camera!


You're not necassarily alone out there. =)
09/10/2005 01:31:37 AM · #99
I recommend meditation, you don't need a bearded guru in the woods but look up some guides on the net on how to do it right. It takes a few practises (like, a month for me) to break through but once you clear you're mind and focus on something like your breathing the world just evaporates and it's very relaxing to be one with yourself. It's scientifically proven to help health as well, reducing stress and all that jazz.

There's monks that can meditate so well they raise their body temperature and literally burn away diseases in their body. I'm so gunna do it one day.
09/10/2005 02:04:58 AM · #100
What does "Holy" mean exactly? Why was it added to make "Holy Bible".
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