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09/08/2005 10:00:31 PM · #1 |
Today's gas prices, as we all know, have gotten out of control. I read today that the average price for regular unleaded is $3.25/gal. This made me think; why? I'm still not certain. Lets look at the breakdown.
I ran across an interesting website; The California Energy Comission. This site shows the breakdown on a per week basis of what each gallon at the pump goes towards.
Very interesting indeed.
Yes, the cost of crude oil has be increasing, but if you look at the breakdown, the per gallon cost has stayed + or - $0.20 since mid June. The price at the pump, however, has only increased. As reported the price on June 20 was $2.35 a gallon. By this week it hit $3.06.
That is a $0.69 increase whereas the price of crude oil has risen by $0.19 during the same timeframe (with several points where it dropped a bit).
Maybe OPEC isn't as guilty as we are being led to believe...
The category is listed as "Refinery Cost and Profits" and doesn't break those apart. Since that business is so cut-throat and they have been doint it for a long time, I find it very hard to believe that refinery costs could have risen terribly much over any given year. So, as such, most of the reported $ for that category must land in the Profit side.
Are our oil companies ripping us off and shifting the blame to OPEC?
I see 3 culprits in this game. 1) OPEC. Yes, they jack with prices enough that they are certainly part of the blame. 2) The Oil Companies. Yes, profits drive businesses, but don't rape your patrons in the process. 3) The Government. Beyond the fact that the Gov't is doing little of nothing to regulate the Oil Companies or trying to talk to OPEC, the Gov't, in the example above, is receiving $0.56 of the $3.06 per gallon in taxes.
This is insane! We need to start holding people accountable for their actions. |
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09/08/2005 10:10:28 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by RobCoursey:
The category is listed as "Refinery Cost and Profits" and doesn't break those apart. Since that business is so cut-throat and they have been doint it for a long time, I find it very hard to believe that refinery costs could have risen terribly much over any given year. So, as such, most of the reported $ for that category must land in the Profit side. |
Maybe I misunderstood Economics, but doesn't cut-throat competition tend to push profits downward?
-Terry
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09/08/2005 10:11:18 PM · #3 |
| Ummm, OPEC hasn't been to blame for a long time. The only way they can control prices is to lower production (and thus supply). The OPEC countries have been working at record capacity for at least a few years. They do not "set" any certain price. That is set in the free market and it's increase has only demand to blame. China and India are hitting growth booms and 2 billion people suddenly want oil like we have for a while. So now there are three "people" bidding for the same barrel of oil instead of one. OPEC is happy to give it to the highest bidder, what else would you expect them to do? |
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09/08/2005 10:11:55 PM · #4 |
| i think one reason gas has gone up is because the hurricane damaged some oil refineries in New Orleans. |
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09/08/2005 10:12:16 PM · #5 |
NJ and PA are investigating gouging/profiteering. Not sure who to blame - the little business man that owns the station or the distributor.
8 or 9 refineries were closed by Katrina. Something like 30-40% of our gas is refined in LA or nearby areas. Not all the refineries are back online.
Refining capacity has been near the limit, so 'they' say. Supply and demand...BUT in the news today was 'other refineries have incresed production to make up for hte closed refineries'....hmm, at capacity? Not really now!
I don't heat with oil, but many do. Ouch the cost of that!
I use natural gas...presently getting estimates to go all-electric as that will save me money (including buying a new furnace and other appliances!!). Anyway, the US has mroe natural gas than coal! How can there be a shortage? Why is the price, too high now, expected to go up 30-70% this winter?? It does NOT need refined!
Oil prices are going back down a bit - mid $60s last i heard.
Gas prices dropped here yesterday from $3.19 to $2.99. I have been waiting to fill up - i last paid $2.59. Perhaps tomorrow it will be $2.79?
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09/08/2005 11:00:20 PM · #6 |
You think you have problems, here in NZ it is around the $1.60 per litre, (4.5 litres to the gallon) and rising
The oil companies blame o/seas price rises etc but still put the price up well before any of those rises would have any effect here, and the Govt keeps quiet as they still score roughly 50% of thecost in fuel tax, so for them the higher the price the better |
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09/08/2005 11:04:45 PM · #7 |
one thing is for sure, there is a lot of finger pointing going on as to who is to blame. But im sure its being done by the government and the oil companies/refineries to make a fat profit.
heck this money could be going to build some tripple super secrete weapon or aircraft for all we know.
James |
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09/08/2005 11:07:50 PM · #8 |
I have a question for those who live in countries where your government has a very hight tax on your fuel cost.
1. Why does your government tax you so much on gas?
2. What benefit do you gain from being taxed so much on gas and everything else they tax you for?
im just curious as to why, Im not trying to start some heated argument. I dont understand and I want to know more.
James |
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09/08/2005 11:16:49 PM · #9 |
It's all Bush's fault.
Everyone knows this.
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09/08/2005 11:24:09 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by Artyste:
It's all Bush's fault.
Everyone knows this. |
The new Godwin's Law? ;)
Now behave and let the nice people talk about their gas issues.
...that just sounds wrong on many levels.
Clara |
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09/08/2005 11:25:27 PM · #11 |
Like I said before this whole thing...gas prices go up $1.00 or more everywhere...then they slowly drop back down $.50 or so, and everyone has a boner, meanwhile, the price is still up fifty cents per gallon.
Something needs to be done about this, seriously...Someone is getting rich, there is no doubt about it.
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09/08/2005 11:26:22 PM · #12 |
Originally posted by rayz1:
You think you have problems, here in NZ it is around the $1.60 per litre, (4.5 litres to the gallon)... |
What kind of litres do you use down there in New Zealand? Are they smaller because you are an island nation and couldn't fit the regular ones on the boat? |
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09/08/2005 11:33:03 PM · #13 |
Originally posted by jab119:
I have a question for those who live in countries where your government has a very hight tax on your fuel cost.
1. Why does your government tax you so much on gas?
2. What benefit do you gain from being taxed so much on gas and everything else they tax you for?
im just curious as to why, Im not trying to start some heated argument. I dont understand and I want to know more.
James |
Here (NZ) i think they tax so much because they can, I havent heard of a Govt anywhere who truly believe they are accountable to the people,
Thee claim here is that the taxes go to road boards, hospitals etc anything transport related, the reality is that it is syphoned off to anything else they feel like.
I dont know about other countries but here in NZ the general beleif is that politics is the home of the failed lawyers accountants and schoolteachers, ie all those who cannot make an honest living elsewhere,
a large proportion of our politicians come from those 3 groups, any honest ones soon get corrupted by the system |
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09/08/2005 11:34:49 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by rayz1:
Originally posted by jab119:
I have a question for those who live in countries where your government has a very hight tax on your fuel cost.
1. Why does your government tax you so much on gas?
2. What benefit do you gain from being taxed so much on gas and everything else they tax you for?
im just curious as to why, Im not trying to start some heated argument. I dont understand and I want to know more.
Nah just a different system, you have imperial measurements and metric ones, NZ has been fully metric for years now, just brings things more in line with most of the world
James |
Here (NZ) i think they tax so much because they can, I havent heard of a Govt anywhere who truly believe they are accountable to the people,
Thee claim here is that the taxes go to road boards, hospitals etc anything transport related, the reality is that it is syphoned off to anything else they feel like.
I dont know about other countries but here in NZ the general beleif is that politics is the home of the failed lawyers accountants and schoolteachers, ie all those who cannot make an honest living elsewhere,
a large proportion of our politicians come from those 3 groups, any honest ones soon get corrupted by the system |
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09/08/2005 11:35:28 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by jab119:
I have a question for those who live in countries where your government has a very hight tax on your fuel cost.
1. Why does your government tax you so much on gas?
2. What benefit do you gain from being taxed so much on gas and everything else they tax you for?
im just curious as to why, Im not trying to start some heated argument. I dont understand and I want to know more.
James |
James,
coming from over there, I've noticed a HUGE difference between and Texas. Granted, Texas is a little bit more oriented towards an individual car/truck side than say, north-eastern US. Still, the tax money pays for the excellent public transportation, that gives you the ability to move from any point in the city to any other point in the city, and all that without having to use park&ride facilities to which you still have to drive in your car here in the US.
Driving is indeed a luxury, both tax-wise and time-wise. You are better off riding a subway, underground, trams, trolleys, buses, etc. then attempting to move around in your car.
We here call it independence, but in reality is it only because not having a car effectively disables you. I would not be able to get to work from where I live if it weren't for the CAR.
Now, the question is, what is better. I kinda miss the public transportation. You still have the car for getting out of town on weekends, or visiting friends, etc.
Moreover, that (and other) tax money is used to fund other social projects, nonexistent here, such as health care for children, elderly, etc.
Just my attempt to get to not so subtle differences without ranting on either side.
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09/08/2005 11:49:12 PM · #16 |
soon beer will be cheaper than gas.... $3.33 a gallon
DRINK UP!!!
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09/08/2005 11:49:22 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Originally posted by rayz1:
You think you have problems, here in NZ it is around the $1.60 per litre, (4.5 litres to the gallon)... |
What kind of litres do you use down there in New Zealand? Are they smaller because you are an island nation and couldn't fit the regular ones on the boat? |
The problem is not in the liters side, it's on the gallons side. While a US gallons is about 3.8 liters, an Imperial gallon is about 4.5 liters.
-Terry
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09/09/2005 12:31:45 AM · #18 |
You think you have problems, here in NZ it is around the $1.60 per litre, (4.5 litres to the gallon)...
What kind of litres do you use down there in New Zealand? Are they smaller because you are an island nation and couldn't fit the regular ones on the boat?
The problem is not in the liters side, it's on the gallons side. While a US gallons is about 3.8 liters, an Imperial gallon is about 4.5 liters.
-Terry
Busted! So much for us sarcastic Americans.
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09/09/2005 12:35:25 AM · #19 |
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09/09/2005 01:20:03 AM · #20 |
Originally posted by Army of nOne:
You think you have problems, here in NZ it is around the $1.60 per litre, (4.5 litres to the gallon)...
What kind of litres do you use down there in New Zealand? Are they smaller because you are an island nation and couldn't fit the regular ones on the boat?
The problem is not in the liters side, it's on the gallons side. While a US gallons is about 3.8 liters, an Imperial gallon is about 4.5 liters.
-Terry
Busted! So much for us sarcastic Americans. |
Well, he was speaking to an American so he should have used an American conversion. OTOH, I plead having been ignorant to the Imperial Gallon. I think I had heard of it at one time, but that brain cell must have died trying to come up with my picture for the next challenge... |
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09/09/2005 01:39:29 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by kyebosh:
soon beer will be cheaper than gas.... $3.33 a gallon
DRINK UP!!! |
Cheap Beer anyway |
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09/09/2005 01:41:56 AM · #22 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Well, he was speaking to an American so he should have used an American conversion. |
American English is not the lingua franca that we would like to believe it is.
We should be brushing up on our Chinese if anything. |
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09/09/2005 01:43:26 AM · #23 |
Here in Brazil, I pay about US$4.30/gallon (R$2.55/liter)... that is why I normal ride a motorcycle:)
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09/09/2005 01:50:16 AM · #24 |
I'll give the "explaining why high taxes on gas are good for your economy/country" a shot:
High taxes on gas mean that people who drive a lot, pay a lot (for both gas and taxes). People who can't afford a car in the first place, don't pay gas taxes at all.
We here in Switzerland have a very low-income-friendly tax system, i.e. people who earn little pay a very small percentage of income tax, while those who earn a lot pay a much higher income tax percentage - they call this "progressive" taxing. Progressive obviously in the mathematical and not the progress sense of the word.
As mentioned by someone else above, the taxes are among other things used to pay for public transport. But they are also used for publicly financed education for our children. Nobody in Switzerland HAS to go to private school to guarantee their professional success later in live. Our universities are dirt cheap compared to not just ivy league colleges. Parents and kids save money from the moment they are born, not to be able send them to college later but to make sure they can afford some nice stuff when they move out, go travel, pay for their expensive hobbies etc. The technical engineering school right here in Zurich is one of the best in the world, pretty close to the MIT. Yet, it is public, it's actually a federal school and costs next to nothing to attend...
Our public transport system lets you travel to the furthest corner of our picturesque country in no time (of course a little longer than by car, but trains go places cars can only dream of) and at a very reasonable price. The public transport system in our whole country, roughly 40.000 square kilometers, puts the systems in the American North East to shame - I lived there, too, for two years. Even the NYC subway is crap compared to our trams and buses here, not to mention local and intercity trains that make Metro North and even the Acela (DC-NYC-Boston) look like people transporting, blown up luxury snails...
Aynone care for my take on the oil price situation, let me know :-)
Bruno, Zurich
PS: Our gas prices have gone up considerably, they're at roughly USD 1.50 per liter, i.e. beyond USD 5.50 per US gallon... |
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09/09/2005 02:10:05 AM · #25 |
| Nobody has yet to mention China - the more inexpensive Chinese manufactured goods you buy at Walmart, the stronger the Chinese economy - the stronger the economy, the greater the demand for oil. The car is the preferred status symbol for the Chinese middle class so the choices are enjoy the latest fashions in the comfort of your own home or drive naked. Of course, India is supposed to come on strong in the next few years as well, so I'd recommend hybrids and Sunday walks (of course, I live in Hong Kong and good mass transit and even cheaper goods coming out of China, but when avian flu hits the big time, it will visit us early - win some, lose some). |
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