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11/04/2002 12:25:55 PM · #1
Judging by the comments on my image so far, as well as, by looking at some of the other images (for which I had to change the score higher, after a more careful examination) , voters don't quiet take the time to look for a deeper meaning, a photographer was trying to convey.

Here are just a few general suggestions on rating the submissions:
1. After seeing what's obvious, try to look for a hidden meaning (sarcasm, contradiction, detail, what is hidden or is not in the frame, etc.)
2. General perception studies show that a person at first glance can usually count up to six figures, therefore take a close look at the number of elements composing the image (for example one more element would refer to a lucky number 7), and their arrangement.
3. Consider the mood in relations to the content, do they match, is the artist trying to say something with mood/content relationship.

Hope this might help to appreciate some of the work displayed, as well as some of your own work.

Dimitrii


11/04/2002 12:44:47 PM · #2
Realistically, though, when people are voting for 150-ish images, they're not going to spend a whole lot of time on each one. This is something people need to keep in mind when creating their shots.

Companies that produce billboards understand this all too well. People drive by billboards quickly (and are swamped by many of them in urban areas) -- effective billboards have fewer than 9 words on them, and are designed to get a message out very concisely.

I try to use that same approach when putting shots together for the site. I know that people aren't going to spend much time seeking a hidden meaning, so I try to make things simple, straightforward and if I'm lucky, attractive :)
11/04/2002 12:55:22 PM · #3
Good point. By the way congrats on your last image, very well done.

Dimitrii


Originally posted by alansfreed:
Realistically, though, when people are voting for 150-ish images, they're not going to spend a whole lot of time on each one. This is something people need to keep in mind when creating their shots.

Companies that produce billboards understand this all too well. People drive by billboards quickly (and are swamped by many of them in urban areas) -- effective billboards have fewer than 9 words on them, and are designed to get a message out very concisely.

I try to use that same approach when putting shots together for the site. I know that people aren't going to spend much time seeking a hidden meaning, so I try to make things simple, straightforward and if I'm lucky, attractive :)



11/04/2002 01:30:18 PM · #4
Thanks for this comment dmitrii. I'm getting pilloried for just that reason. DPC is definetly NOT an artistic competition.
Originally posted by dimitrii:
Judging by the comments on my image so far, as well as, by looking at some of the other images (for which I had to change the score higher, after a more careful examination) , voters don't quiet take the time to look for a deeper meaning, a photographer was trying to convey.

Here are just a few general suggestions on rating the submissions:
1. After seeing what's obvious, try to look for a hidden meaning (sarcasm, contradiction, detail, what is hidden or is not in the frame, etc.)
2. General perception studies show that a person at first glance can usually count up to six figures, therefore take a close look at the number of elements composing the image (for example one more element would refer to a lucky number 7), and their arrangement.
3. Consider the mood in relations to the content, do they match, is the artist trying to say something with mood/content relationship.

Hope this might help to appreciate some of the work displayed, as well as some of your own work.

Dimitrii






* This message has been edited by the author on 11/4/2002 1:29:05 PM.
11/04/2002 02:33:57 PM · #5
Originally posted by catpixel:
Thanks for this comment dmitrii. I'm getting pilloried for just that reason. DPC is definetly NOT an artistic competition.


I tend to disagree with this statement, if you look at the past winners.
What is not a competition for is quiet, subtle shots. High impact/wow
factor is all important. That doesn't mean it isn't still artistic.
11/04/2002 02:40:40 PM · #6
I agree it is not a matter of wether the image is artistic or not, it's a matter of putting in the effort to see the message/mood/etc. a photographer was trying to convey.

Dimitrii


Originally posted by Gordon:
Originally posted by catpixel:
[i]Thanks for this comment dmitrii. I'm getting pilloried for just that reason. DPC is definetly NOT an artistic competition.


I tend to disagree with this statement, if you look at the past winners.
What is not a competition for is quiet, subtle shots. High impact/wow
factor is all important. That doesn't mean it isn't still artistic.[/i]


11/04/2002 03:23:01 PM · #7
Originally posted by alansfreed:
Realistically, though, when people are voting for 150-ish images, they're not going to spend a whole lot of time on each one. This is something people need to keep in mind when creating their shots.

I agree with what you are saying here, however I wish that I didn't have to. People have a week to get in their votes, and should take more time considering ones photo, as I am sure that they would want the same to be done with their own submissions. For example, the current challenge was quite difficult and there were several photos that were similar in idea, although were executed differently. One should not take only the subject into consideration, but the artistic aspects, lighting, clarity/focus into thought as well. It is disappointing for someone to leave a comment stating, "Oh...haven't I seen this one already', or "Oh yeah, another shot of something I have already seen". I think that this is a shame being that most voters are photographers themselves and you would think that they would want more than criticism as a comment. Just my two cents, sorry about the wild tangent...


11/04/2002 03:30:45 PM · #8
Originally posted by CreativeDotCom:
Originally posted by alansfreed:
[i]Realistically, though, when people are voting for 150-ish images, they're not going to spend a whole lot of time on each one. This is something people need to keep in mind when creating their shots.


I agree with what you are saying here, however I wish that I didn't have to. People have a week to get in their votes, and should take more time considering ones photo, as I am sure that they would want the same to be done with their own submissions. For example, the current challenge was quite difficult and there were several photos that were similar in idea, although were executed differently. One should not take only the subject into consideration, but the artistic aspects, lighting, clarity/focus into thought as well. It is disappointing for someone to leave a comment stating, "Oh...haven't I seen this one already', or "Oh yeah, another shot of something I have already seen". I think that this is a shame being that most voters are photographers themselves and you would think that they would want more than criticism as a comment. Just my two cents, sorry about the wild tangent...
[/i]

While I agree with your sentiment, I don't think it is practical, considering we only have 1 week to vote on the challenge entries.
Assuming, as in some weeks, we have around 200 entries, then if you
gave each image 5 minutes consideration it would take over 16 hours
to vote. Assuming a faster rate of 2 minutes per picture, which is
next to nothing, voting still takes close to 7 hours.

I, like most people I assume, on here have a full time job and other
commitments in my life. I don't have a spare day to spend appreciating
the subtle features in the pictures, or trying to find the perfection,
particularly when a large majority of the entries are more towards the
snapshot end of the spectrum. Perhaps 1 in 5 of the shots that look
like a snapshot are actually brillantly concieved and arranged to look
just like a snapshot, but with loads of symbolism and hidden meaning.

If so it probably wouldn't get noticed, in amongst all the other ones
that just happened happhazardly. The result is that high scores and
success on here come from high impact, obvious messages, clean technical
things. The worst you can do is have an obvious 'flaw' that people
can vote you down for. Then you probably score low. The second
worst thing you can do is not be immediately interesting. You need
to stop the voter long enough to look...
11/04/2002 03:42:45 PM · #9
I give a LOT more viewing time to photographs that have some element or quality that stands out and grabs my attention... wow factor plays a large role in this... When I see an image that appears dull and drab right off the bat, I don't spend much time looking for hidden detail and other redeeming qualities.

Photography is a visual art. If you want your viewer to really spend time digging into your image, you should present them with some element that warrants a second glance...
11/04/2002 03:47:53 PM · #10
Originally posted by Gordon:
While I agree with your sentiment, I don't think it is practical

I, too, have a full time job and do not have the time (nor the patience to be honest) to spend 2-5 minutes on every picture. However not all photos need that kind of consideration either. I guess what I was trying to get at, is this: Although there are some photos that may be similar to others, consideration needs to take place where execution of the photo is concerned. If I see 4 or 5 of the same concept, yes it becomes quite tedious, however I do try to take into the artistic and technical aspects of the photo. I may vote on them, them go back afterwards when I notice a 'trend' and give more consideration to those photos than I did give enough consideration to before. For example, this particular challenge (Superstition) has lots of 'salt' photos. Some of them were very well done, some of them I didn't see or feel any creativity taking place. I didn't comment negatively on any of them on lack of originality as that, to me, is not very constructive. How was that particular photographer to know that others would use the same concept? I commented on those that I thought were strong, and stood out amongst the others. I guess I went back to the old saying that if you don't have anything nice to say...don't say anything at all. I just don't see how negative comments encourage creativity. I am not saying to take an extra 2 minutes to look at a photo, I do not even do that myself, but I don't take the time to comment negatively on every photo that I don't find appealing either.



* This message has been edited by the author on 11/4/2002 3:47:06 PM.
11/04/2002 03:48:32 PM · #11
Then why are they voting? I take time to look at each photo. I don't get done with my voting every week, but I try to put a comment in each one I voted on and take time to try to understand what the photographer is trying to tell. It is like a pie baking contest and I am the judge. I take my time and savoir the flavor of each pie, giving everyone a fair chance.

Voters: Look at each one and try to see what they see. You don't have to vote on all the photos. Don't vote on mine if you can't take time to understand it.

Originally posted by alansfreed:
[i]Realistically, though, when people are voting for 150-ish images, they're not going to spend a whole lot of time on each one. This is something people need to keep in mind when creating their shots.

11/04/2002 03:58:37 PM · #12
I agree that not every photo requires the same amount of time to appreciate or vote on. My original comment was addressed towards the higher end images, which in addition to being of outstanding quality also tend to have more meaning in them as well; given a chance.

Also, I believe, it is not about HOW LONG you are looking at a photograph, but HOW you are looking at it (see my original post at the top). For example, I've gotten a lot of comments as to why the elements in my image are positioned oposite of what would be expected, it was done on purpose; therefore when I see something I would consider a mistake in a photograph, the question I try to answer is 'Did the photogrpaher purposefully creat such an effect?'.

I am basing this squarely on my own experience.

Dimitrii

P.S. By the way, I am not at all disappointed with the scores I get, as I think they are very fair.



Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I give a LOT more viewing time to photographs that have some element or quality that stands out and grabs my attention... wow factor plays a large role in this... When I see an image that appears dull and drab right off the bat, I don't spend much time looking for hidden detail and other redeeming qualities.

Photography is a visual art. If you want your viewer to really spend time digging into your image, you should present them with some element that warrants a second glance...





* This message has been edited by the author on 11/4/2002 3:56:47 PM.


* This message has been edited by the author on 11/4/2002 4:03:46 PM.


* This message has been edited by the author on 11/4/2002 6:05:11 PM.
11/04/2002 06:42:15 PM · #13
Dimitrii, and others... This conversation is a constant thread in the forums on this site. You're not the first people to notice this problem, and it gets worse over time as the number of photos increases. I simply can't bring myself to vote at all, at the moment, because I WANT to study each photo and I don't have the energy right now to do that. Compromising by not voting on all of them or spending less time on them just doesn't feel satisfying to me, and in the end I'm just not going to vote unless it's a pleasurable experience for me.

I like the photos that use "flaws" creatively, like soft focus, motion blur, overexposure, underexposure, oversaturation, colour cast, etc., etc. Even photos that used the flash or have redeye can have some meaning that I enjoy :). Photos that need time, concentration and study to fully appreciate have a second kind of "WOW" factor for me, the one that makes me feel like I made a little discovery that didn't hit me over the head. Those are the photos I love the most, and I miss them or gloss over them when I don't have the ability to sit and stare at each photo for a while, EVEN the ones that look like a "snapshot" (I still don't know what that is) in the first few seconds or minute.

I can't wait until DPC2 comes around and we'll have multiple, smaller challenges that will let voters take their time and have a full, satisfying, creative experience when they vote.
11/04/2002 08:10:17 PM · #14
That will be great, I can't wait. When is all this supposed to take place?

Originally posted by lisae:
I can't wait until DPC2 comes around and we'll have multiple, smaller challenges that will let voters take their time and have a full, satisfying, creative experience when they vote.
[/i]

11/04/2002 09:07:53 PM · #15
I think that the initial appearance as a thumbnail is more important than it appears. Sometimes a picture that looks interesting as a thumbnail becomes more dull when viewed full size and the converse happens disturbingly often. This makes it hard to vote without going through the whole lot - how do you choose which ones to vote on?
11/04/2002 11:22:29 PM · #16
I remind myself that there is a diverse population of voters here, each with their own way of voting and commenting. Some have plenty of time to savor each picture, others have less time and must comment selectively. Some, it seems to me, comment on their favorites, while others comment on the ones they don't like. You may look for subtlities, while I may look for the BIG WOWS! If a voter is less eloquent of speech, so be it.
I think it's fair to summarize the the voters represent a cross section of the greater population. It really makes things interesting, in fact. Art can never be agreed upon by all. We are all coming from different social stratas, with varying perspectives. To most benefit from the mix, we may need to accept the differences that characterize this blend of people. One of my mottos is "chew on the meat and spit out the bones." (Sorry LisaE) I'll change that to "Chew on the fruit and spit out the seeds" :-)

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