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08/17/2005 11:20:13 AM · #1
Semi-rant...beware:

My wife called today, very very upset and disheartened. She started this day believing it would be her final day of college and that once she handed in her final assignment at 6:30 pm she would qualify for her college diploma. Well, the program co-ordinator just told her they changed the program (AGAIN!!!) and she needs 3 more courses (spread out over the next year) to graduate.

AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!

This is so frustrating.
She started on her "Fashion Design" program about 6 years ago and left after a few years to go to University. Well, she changed her mind and has been trying to complete the program through part-time studies over the last few years and this was supposed to be her last class...but they keep changing things on her!

What can we do? My wife and I feel like crying.

08/17/2005 11:47:10 AM · #2
I think that at some schools you only have to complete the requirements as they are when you first enroll. It's to prevent things like this from happening.

You could always go to the school and explain the situation and see if anything can be done.
08/17/2005 11:49:15 AM · #3
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Semi-rant...beware:

My wife called today, very very upset and disheartened. She started this day believing it would be her final day of college and that once she handed in her final assignment at 6:30 pm she would qualify for her college diploma. Well, the program co-ordinator just told her they changed the program (AGAIN!!!) and she needs 3 more courses (spread out over the next year) to graduate.

AAAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!

This is so frustrating.
She started on her "Fashion Design" program about 6 years ago and left after a few years to go to University. Well, she changed her mind and has been trying to complete the program through part-time studies over the last few years and this was supposed to be her last class...but they keep changing things on her!

What can we do? My wife and I feel like crying.


There's probably nothing you can do now. Didn't she have an evaluation done before now to assess her remaining requirements? What about when she started back on the program? Most schools do that. Most schools won't keep to close of an eye on a student's progress toward graduation, it's up to the student. It's also on the student to meet with counselors periodically to assess their progress. That's what I did, at least once per year.

As for what she can do now, I suppose, she should sit down with the Dean and/or counselor for a meeting, express her disappointment in an adult manner and get what it will take to complete the program in WRITING and have it signed by the Dean or other appropriate official. I find it hard to believe that a reputable school would just add some requirements arbitrarily at the 11th hour.

It sounds like there was a misunderstanding between your wife and the school as to what exactly is required to graduate.
08/17/2005 11:50:23 AM · #4
Usually schools do grandfather in the old requirements for students who started then. You should definitely have her talk to the program director's boss (probly the dean of such and so). Anyways - good luck with that! That's crappy!
08/17/2005 11:50:32 AM · #5
Most accredited schools require a degree plan to be on file and the plan you are on is based on requirements from the course catalog at the time the plan is created. Usually those plans are effective for a certain length of time, usually 5 years. Check to see when her plan was filed and if she is still within the timeframe. If the plan is expired, she will unfortunately have to get a new plan and meet the current requirements. :(
08/17/2005 11:54:13 AM · #6
This school is a joke...I've heard nothing but bad things about it and she tried to get this clarified at the beginning of the summer and was told "it should be okay" and "don't worry" by the program co-ordinator.

I feel soooo bad for her, she's tried so f&@!ing hard...
08/17/2005 11:57:39 AM · #7
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

This school is a joke...I've heard nothing but bad things about it and she tried to get this clarified at the beginning of the summer and was told "it should be okay" and "don't worry" by the program co-ordinator.

I feel soooo bad for her, she's tried so f&@!ing hard...


So a working hypothesis miught be that they "change the requirements" so as to milk more courses (and more money) out of existing students? Is this what you suspect is happening? If so, you might have a case for fraud of sufficient weight to negotiate with....

Robt.
08/17/2005 12:00:58 PM · #8
Originally posted by bear_music:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

This school is a joke...I've heard nothing but bad things about it and she tried to get this clarified at the beginning of the summer and was told "it should be okay" and "don't worry" by the program co-ordinator.

I feel soooo bad for her, she's tried so f&@!ing hard...


So a working hypothesis miught be that they "change the requirements" so as to milk more courses (and more money) out of existing students? Is this what you suspect is happening? If so, you might have a case for fraud of sufficient weight to negotiate with....

Robt.


It's truly a possibility, but I would suspect that it's pure ineptness of the college faculty.

Luckily we have some email correspondance that shows that Marnie was trying to get all of this clarified at the beginning of the summer...of course, she was told 'it shouldn't be a problem'.

08/17/2005 12:05:05 PM · #9
I doubt it shows "faculty" ineptitude; crap like this is the province of the administrators, not the teachers. For whatever that's worth...

Robt.
08/17/2005 12:07:19 PM · #10
Originally posted by bear_music:

I doubt it shows "faculty" ineptitude; crap like this is the province of the administrators, not the teachers. For whatever that's worth...

Robt.


True, administrators not the faculty...sorry...

So what now? I know of one other student who got some tuition back from the school after lodging serious complaints against them...I've contacted them for advice...
08/17/2005 12:09:29 PM · #11
Keep moving up the chain of command here. Don't let them force you guys into another YEAR of school when she's completed what was required and was told it "should be fine." Tell them what you want - SHE WANTS HER DEGREE NOW THANKS. And keep telling them this. Tell everyone who matters what happened. Eventually you'll tell the right person to get it done.
08/17/2005 12:12:37 PM · #12
I don't really have enough information to advise, but my gut feeling is that if they are truly a lame operation, a fly-by-nightish "fashion institute" thingy, you can use the fraud & misrepresentation approach to wring a diploma out of them. It would be a lot less expensive for them to wash their hands of your wife than to fight you, and the PR would be very bad for them as well.

This approach wouldn't work if it's a well-respected school, of course, or if it can be convincingly argued that you folks screwed up and were operating under invalid assumptions.

Good luck with it. If it were me, and if they are truly at fault, I'd make an utter ass of myself until they just wanted to get me off the radar as rapidly as possible.

Robt.
08/17/2005 12:12:57 PM · #13
I would without question seek some form of legal council. Your first meeting/consultation is for free. You may also have a friend or aquaintance that is a lawyer who could point you in the right direction or maybe draft a quick letter of inquiry to press them.

I would be pissed. Not only is this an issue of extra time but extra money as well. Maybe to avoid any legal stress or hassles they might grant you the degree. Nobody likes to get bogged down into legal action so they might settle to get rid of you. ALWAY'S worth a try.

Message edited by author 2005-08-17 12:13:55.
08/17/2005 12:13:48 PM · #14
Originally posted by bear_music:

If it were me, and if they are truly at fault, I'd make an utter ass of myself until they just wanted to get me off the radar as rapidly as possible.


Yes.
08/17/2005 12:19:53 PM · #15
Please don't flame me...this is a legitimate concern...any reputable educational entity worth it's salt isn't going to "give" someone a diploma to get them off of their backs. If they offer to do so, has your wife really "won" anything? What good is a diploma that was obtained under threats and accusations? I wonder if any places of business in the fashion industry even acknowleges a degree from that particular institution? I hope this struggle and hard work (not to mention expense) your wife has put in isn't for nothing, of course, but this is something to consider.

I would seek legal counsel as well, and check to find out if the school is accredited, and if there are other registered complaints about it (maybe with the BBB or something) so that you can gather factual data to use in your defense. Good luck. :)
08/17/2005 12:26:01 PM · #16
Originally posted by bear_music:

If it were me, and if they are truly at fault, I'd make an utter ass of myself until they just wanted to get me off the radar as rapidly as possible.



If by making an ass out of yourself, you mean throwing a fit, that's more likely to NOT get what you want.

I'd be more inclined, if satisfaction were not offered, to write letters not to just the inept administration of the department, but also to the school president, board of directors and anyone with real power at the school expressing how upset, disappointed and let down you are. Try to schedule appointments with them to make your case in person.

If THAT didn't get results, I'd contact a lawyer, write letters to the editor etc. Don't make an ass out of yourself, make yourself a PAIN in their ass.

08/17/2005 12:39:17 PM · #17
Okay, a big update, but first let me answer a few questions.

1) The 'fashion design' program at this school is very reputable in the industry...it's the school as a whole that is a joke. The education in the program is good, but the administration is frustrating.

2) She should have graduated already...she has more than enough courses but she can't keep up with the changes.

Okay, so here we go.

I called the program co-ordinator and told her (in my professional-buyer-negotiating voice) how I felt. I said that my wife has been trying to get answers since the beginning of the summer. Marnie emailed this lady in May and she was told everything should be okay and that they would get together to solve the problems. Marnie did what she could to get answers.

So....Marnie just called me. She asked me "what did you say?"

The program co-ordinator was pissed...she hauled Marnie out of class and told her to pass this course and she'll graduate under the old program requirements. She told her she doesn't want to see Marnie in the school after this is over and that if she 'ever pulls a stunt like this' in the industry, she'll be done. Marnie feels threatened that her name will be smeared in the industry but she's happy to get her paper and get the heck out of there.

This lady must have known she was in the wrong to act in such a threatening manner...I repeat...what a joke. But hopefully this is the end of this situation.
08/17/2005 12:42:43 PM · #18
Excellent!

Congratulate her from us on graduating!
08/17/2005 12:43:53 PM · #19
i wonder if there is somewhere you could lodge a formal complaint against this school.

You're right, what a joke. And to take it out on a student like that...how very cocky.
08/17/2005 01:53:30 PM · #20
Did yo usee '60 Minutes' this past sunday? It had an expose' on several schools. Inveriewed graduates, etc. Fashion Design was one of the areas that lots of crooked schools offer degrees in - they interviewed 3 girls that graduated from Brooks (i think in CA) and they had depbt ranging from $30-60 grand for their degrees, and no jobs. They were told placement was 90% and in reality was 28%, and many of those were jobas at Gap or Aeopostle at the mall ($7/hour jobs that can be had without the degree).

I have worked with many 'culinary school' graduates, ones with large student loans to get teh same $7.50 an hour i got with NO schooling.

Start checking out the institution and see if it is a scammer or not. This last minute change of requirements, unless some gov't agency changed the rules on the job/career regarding licensure or something, seems awfully fishy to me.
08/17/2005 02:00:55 PM · #21
No no no...I have to be clear that this is not a scammer institution. People from the school have won awards and gone to Paris, worked for major retailers/labels and gone on to start successful businesses...nobody said placements were high in Fashion Design to entice Marnie to get her diploma.

Anyway, hopefully this is all resolved...

08/17/2005 02:22:04 PM · #22
What's the name of the school? Do a google search and see if people have had similar problems.

Any "normal" school I've heard of holds you accountable for the classes required when you start your program. Changing requirements resulting in extending students stays is possibly bordering on legal issues since they charge you to stay, unless she signed something saying program requirements can change at any time.

Is the school accredited? Talk to the accreditors and let them know what happened.
08/17/2005 02:25:18 PM · #23
I work at a community college (US tho) and when you start a program you're grandfathered into the year that your degree started providing you haven't missed a substantial amount of school. You mentioned she took a couple of years off....she probably had to update her application which would have changed the year pertaining to her degree...but she should still be grandfathered into that particular year. Is she in a regular college or a vocational?

08/17/2005 02:26:12 PM · #24
The school is accredited, I've done a google search and have emailed back and forth with someone that has had similar problems. She gave me a lot of insight into how everything works.

For now, we'll lay low until we get the official papers...then we can raise a stink...until then, I don't want to ruffle any more feathers.
08/17/2005 02:27:56 PM · #25
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

This school is a joke...I've heard nothing but bad things about it and she tried to get this clarified at the beginning of the summer and was told "it should be okay" and "don't worry" by the program co-ordinator.

I feel soooo bad for her, she's tried so f&@!ing hard...


So nothing in writing? bummer :/ She needs to get a graduation evaluation (or the equivalent) which would be mailed to her from the school's admissions dept....that way she has something on paper listing what she has left. She should of had one done when she was 1/2 through with the program.

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