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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> DCPC Is it time for a new paradigm?
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08/12/2005 11:40:19 AM · #1
DPC = Digital Photography Challenge

In light of an increasing number of threads such as the following

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=256019

that are attempting to force some actual "rule" on meeting the challenge literally and obviously, I propose (for the sake of argument) the following question:

Is it time to rename the site DCPC Digital Commercial Photography Challenge?

So many people are so stridently deriding any images that do not obviously and directly meet the challenge at its least common denominator level, often by pointing out that the "test" of meeting the challenge is to imagine you're submitting an image for a cover shot for "Affluence" magazine (or whatever), that I am curious what the collective feeling of our members is?

Because that's a VERY commercial-photography way of defining the goals of the site; the challenge is a "client" and the goal is to give the client EXACTLY what he was already looking for.

I find this very limiting, personally. Do you?

Robt.
08/12/2005 11:51:15 AM · #2
To me DPC is about discussing photography with my friends and learning from those more experienced than me. The challenges are also about learning. For instance the Light on White Challenge was about learning how to do that and not blowing out highlights. I entered something that was light on white. I got some feedback and learned how to do it and how to do things differently to get a better result. If I would have shot a black 8 ball on a white background and not met the challenge and not learned from the challenge. In my opinion we should all meet the challenge or be DQ'ed. Challenges are about learning and trying new things. If you don't do that then you are defeating the whole purpose.

Message edited by author 2005-08-12 11:52:02.
08/12/2005 11:52:59 AM · #3
Originally posted by bear_music:

I find this very limiting, personally. Do you?

Extremely.

If I want to explore the boundaries of a challenge (or not even meet it at all), that's MY perogative as a paying member. If my entry is too far out of the box (or just sucks), then I'll pay for it at voting time.

Message edited by author 2005-08-12 11:58:59.
08/12/2005 11:56:25 AM · #4
Robert, I agree with your viewpoint. There should be no such limiting "rules"...

I rarely, if ever, vote anything down for "not meeting the challenge". I just can't get myself to discredit another photographer's (i.e., artist's) subjective interpretation of a topic. On the other hand, I do vote in accordance with how the photo "grabs" me.

It's all a gut feel.
08/12/2005 11:57:15 AM · #5
I don't find it limiting in a bad sense. But then again, I'm a "rule follower" type of person. I think there are plenty of places online to show off lovely photographs, but the challenge aspect here is one of the things that sets it apart.

That being said, it's a virtual "game" really, seeing who gets the ribbons. Enjoy the site, relax, and don't sweat the small stuff. I think the voters speak with their scores and it seems to work just the way it is. This is way too large a group to try and please everyone.
08/12/2005 11:58:13 AM · #6
While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.
08/12/2005 11:59:09 AM · #7
ALL photos on this site have their purpose. Not just the really good ones that perfectly meet the challenge. I learn a lot, every day, from pro, amateur, and poor photographers.

The point of this site is to learn to become better photographers. Doing what was proposed in that other thread will turn DPC into another cheesy "hotornot"-type site.
08/12/2005 12:01:27 PM · #8
I joined DPC because of the diversity and varied point of view of its members. If I want to shoot to please the "mass media" I'll just go to the news stand and see what the current propaganda rags are pumping out and try to copy it.
What makes DPC so enjoyable to me is the interpretation of the challanges where individuals try to explore the creative bounds of an Idea.
Maybe DPC should have an occasional contest such as: Shoot a picture of a Black Labrador Retreiver, Male only, Frontal view with no collar or adornments. This would add a new twist to an occasional contest.
It would be kind of like the IROC race where all cars are exactly the same but different skill of driver.

08/12/2005 12:01:33 PM · #9
Isn't this the exact same discussion as the other thread?

As for commercial photography, it's those types of photos that win anyhow, so sure...let's call it DCPC.
08/12/2005 12:02:03 PM · #10
Originally posted by rex:

While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.


thank you.
08/12/2005 12:07:53 PM · #11
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Isn't this the exact same discussion as the other thread?

As for commercial photography, it's those types of photos that win anyhow, so sure...let's call it DCPC.


Yep but this one stresses another point of view. I like the site the way it is except for SC editing or deleting ANYBODY's post.
08/12/2005 12:10:49 PM · #12
Originally posted by rex:

While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.


rex's quote from the rules advice on voting tells it all. There is no limit on originality or creativity, but if a VOTER feels that the original or creative photo is outside of the bounds of the challenge, then it is the VOTER'S perogative to rank a photo with a low score.

For example, I may see a wonderful photo of a flower in the Time Capsule challenge, presented in a fantastic way both technically and artistically. If there were no further bounds than "Time Capsule" I might give it good consideration for meeting the challenge. But the Time Capsule challenge said "Take a shot that depicts an era in time. Your title should be the year that you are trying to capture for future generations." To me, this is a clear indication that a photo of a flower is not a specific era and therefore is not applicable to the challenge. I as the Voter get to put that view point into my ranking. If another voter doesn't agree with me, then they get to put their view point to the ranking of photos.

Simply put, we should all be thinking of rex's quote from the voting guidelines and vote according to our viewpoint within that challenge. JMO.
08/12/2005 12:12:33 PM · #13
woutje's post completely sums up my opinion and it does so concisely.

Message edited by author 2005-08-12 12:12:52.
08/12/2005 12:12:54 PM · #14
Also, consider this:
One of the hottest new photographers in the biz is Maki Kawakita. She is in the trade rags, and making a big splash.
//www.makiphoto.com
This is definitely non-conventional thinking in current advertising trends.
I wonder what scores she would be getting?
08/12/2005 12:14:43 PM · #15
Fixed link for above post

edit: I have to disagree with barndog as I find it to be similar (or at par) to a lot of other pro photographers.

Message edited by author 2005-08-12 12:19:05.
08/12/2005 12:15:27 PM · #16
Originally posted by bear_music:

I find this very limiting, personally. Do you?

Interesting post. I am not supporting or rejecting the proposal, but I have a POV.

I don't find the challenges limiting or adhering to the challenges limiting. On the contrary, they force me to take photos of subjects using techniques that I would not otherwise attempt. They stretch my comfort zone. As a result, I have learned a lot and continue to do so.

I especially value the technique challenges (B&W, Leading Lines, Macro, Framed, Bokeh etc.) because they help me learn the tools of the trade. I enjoy the freedom of interpretation in the subject challenges (Affluence, Zoo, Fantasy World etc.) And I especially like the Free Studies because they let me use what I've learned on any ole subject I fancy.

In fact, it's been awhile since we've had a free study. Maybe we need one to get our minds off this. No debate, please, on the meaning of free or study!
08/12/2005 12:16:15 PM · #17
The whole purpose of this site is to create images to meet the parameters of a specific challenge. If there were no considerations of subject then it would be just another contest. It is the specific timed challenges that make the DPC so special. Those that just enter whatever the hell they want take the risk of poor scores.

Personally, I think the site in general is way too obsessed with getting good scores. I personally don't care what score I receive, but it is the "assignment" that is what is important. I enter the challenges that "challenge" me. If the challenge is something I'm not interested in shooting then I don't enter it (a lot :-( lately).

That being said I don't think that there should be any disqualifications for not meeting the challenges. The submitter is taking the risk of negative scores if the masses don't get or care about your specific connection. They shouldn't then get upset and complain in the forums when their scores get battered.
08/12/2005 12:16:31 PM · #18
I've got a great idea!!!

It's a new and novel one, but here we go:

1. View
2. Vote
3. Realize that others are doing the same thing, in their own way.
4. Accept the fact that others view the world differently than you.
5. Move the *&!% on and enjoy life.
6. Repeat.
08/12/2005 12:20:17 PM · #19
Originally posted by aboutimage:

I've got a great idea!!!

It's a new and novel one, but here we go:

1. View
2. Vote
3. Realize that others are doing the same thing, in their own way.
4. Accept the fact that others view the world differently than you.
5. Move the *&!% on and enjoy life.
6. Repeat.


I didn't see have a beer in there and that concerns me a great deal.
08/12/2005 12:21:12 PM · #20
Originally posted by notonline:

I didn't see have a beer in there and that concerns me a great deal.

Damn me!! How could I have forgotten steps 2a and 7??
08/12/2005 12:22:16 PM · #21
Originally posted by bear_music:


I find this very limiting, personally. Do you?


I'd say challenging rather than limiting. You have to beat out 200+ other photographers based on votes from 200+ international voters. The winner is going to be the most easily interpreted photo/concept, or, as you call it, the "lowest common denominator," not the one who can come up with the most abstract, remote connection to the challenge.
08/12/2005 12:23:37 PM · #22
Originally posted by aboutimage:

Originally posted by notonline:

I didn't see have a beer in there and that concerns me a great deal.

Damn me!! How could I have forgotten steps 2a and 7??


Actually 2a should be vote cuz 2 has got to be have a beer. This way it wakes even the ugly(self portrait[refering to me]) photo's seem ok and 7 should be repeat step 2. lol not to get technical or anything.
08/12/2005 12:24:14 PM · #23
Originally posted by bear_music:

DPC = Digital Photography Challenge

In light of an increasing number of threads such as the following

//www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=256019

that are attempting to force some actual "rule" on meeting the challenge literally and obviously, I propose (for the sake of argument) the following question:

Is it time to rename the site DCPC Digital Commercial Photography Challenge?

So many people are so stridently deriding any images that do not obviously and directly meet the challenge at its least common denominator level, often by pointing out that the "test" of meeting the challenge is to imagine you're submitting an image for a cover shot for "Affluence" magazine (or whatever), that I am curious what the collective feeling of our members is?

Because that's a VERY commercial-photography way of defining the goals of the site; the challenge is a "client" and the goal is to give the client EXACTLY what he was already looking for.

I find this very limiting, personally. Do you?

Robt.


I think having a specific topic for a limited time is exactly what makes DPC different and interesting.

But I don't think that the commercial-photography comparison is widespread, and I definitely don't think the site needs to delimit itself in commecial-photography terms.

When given a topic (a challenge here), some people will interpret it very literally, others in a much broader sense, even others in some rather obscure ways. And then, pretty much all challenges can have more than one valid interpretation, whereas many people seem to think that their interpretation is the only valid one.

I don't think it's worth getting upset over it. Too much wasted energy. And I don't think the rules or the name of the site need to be changed to accomodate this. What's limiting is if comments start "getting to you".
08/12/2005 12:26:29 PM · #24
I was just thinking.... if we do actually value shooting for challenges (which I'm going to assume we do) then it's necessary to obey the guidelines and vote a photo down (at least a little) for not meeting the challenge. How to do this? Well from now on, I think I'll leave a comment like the following in addition to any others I might have for that photo:

I cannot see how this photo meets the challenge. Feel free to PM me if you want to give an explanation, it may or may not change the score, but you've got a chance to explain how it meets the challenge in your eyes at least.

FWIW - I don't normally axe a photo totally for not meeting the challenge anyways, but take 1-3 points off depending on how sure I feel that it doesn't meet it. Thus a 10-scoring photo will usually get between 7 and 9 which is still quite good.
08/12/2005 12:30:05 PM · #25
Originally posted by woutje:

Originally posted by rex:

While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly.


rex's quote from the rules advice on voting tells it all. There is no limit on originality or creativity, but if a VOTER feels that the original or creative photo is outside of the bounds of the challenge, then it is the VOTER'S perogative to rank a photo with a low score.

For example, I may see a wonderful photo of a flower in the Time Capsule challenge, presented in a fantastic way both technically and artistically. If there were no further bounds than "Time Capsule" I might give it good consideration for meeting the challenge. But the Time Capsule challenge said "Take a shot that depicts an era in time. Your title should be the year that you are trying to capture for future generations." To me, this is a clear indication that a photo of a flower is not a specific era and therefore is not applicable to the challenge. I as the Voter get to put that view point into my ranking. If another voter doesn't agree with me, then they get to put their view point to the ranking of photos.


Photo = apple blossom
Title = Eden
Era Depicted: that timeless period before The Fall

Sorry if I took someone's idea ... I'm making this up as I go ... : )

Nobody's arguing with anyone's right to vote any photo high or low by whatever you decide are valid criteria.

People are arguing about whether this is like a math test, where you are given a sheet of problems with (usually) only one right answer, or a creative fiction-writing assignment, where people can enjoy greater or lesser popularity but cannot be "wrong."
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