DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> Allowable Alterations
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 85, (reverse)
AuthorThread
04/10/2002 08:01:02 PM · #1
In reading through the Permissible level changes in PSP thread, Drew and I have come up with what we feel might be the final resolution per post-camera photograph alterations. Something to the effect of:

Full photograph alterations will be allowed; however, NO FILTERS, with the exception of Sharpen.

Basically this means you can do anything to the photograph if the alteration is in uniform -- therefore NO TOUCH UP alterations will be allowed.

Please discuss your feelings towards this in the current thread.
04/10/2002 08:08:44 PM · #2
Is Uniform Alteration in response to earlier comments about only modifying levels in the RGB mode and not the individual colors? I think this is very acceptable...

Brightness and contrast would also be uniform adjustments, right?


04/10/2002 08:11:32 PM · #3
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Is Uniform Alteration in response to earlier comments about only modifying levels in the RGB mode and not the individual colors? I think this is very acceptable...
Brightness and contrast would also be uniform adjustments, right?


No, it doesn't say that - least I don't think it does. It says you can do any 'all image' adjustments. That includes adjusting the Red channel, for the whole image, or the Saturation channel, for the whole image.

It makes a lot of sense to me. You can do what you like, just don't use the filters, and don't pull out the airbrush/ clone tools.

Much clearer than the comments about 'auto-levels but not curves' kind of thing. Much clearer all round, and much easier to prove/ disprove/ check up on too.

04/10/2002 08:11:43 PM · #4
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Is Uniform Alteration in response to...

You are correct in all cases.


04/10/2002 08:16:37 PM · #5
Is this going to be written up and added to the rules sometime in the near future?

04/10/2002 08:21:40 PM · #6
As soon as you guys help us come to an agreement :)

Drew
04/10/2002 08:22:18 PM · #7
Personally I like it, but I worry that a rule as general as this might lead to as much angst as the very specific rules we're already working under. For example, is 'Rotate Arbitrary' a 'full photograph alteration'? Posterize? Invert? If we're going to go this route, I suggest you clearly define *exactly* which full photograph alterations you can use.

Here's my list:

Crop
Mode - Grayscale
Levels (Auto Levels)
Curves
Color Balance
Bightness & Contrast (Auto Contrast)
Hue & Saturation (including Colorize)
Desaturate
Rotate (90, 180, Arbitrary)
Variations (useless newbie stuff)
Despeckle (why anyone would use it is beyond me!)
Sharpen

Anything more than this should not be necessary!


* This message has been edited by the author on 4/10/2002 8:23:40 PM.
04/10/2002 08:23:55 PM · #8
agrees with mousie...

no spot modification, no watercolors, no oil paintings.. none of the artistic edits...



* This message has been edited by the author on 4/10/2002 8:24:41 PM.
04/10/2002 08:26:49 PM · #9
Originally posted by Mousie:
Personally I like it, but I worry that a rule as general as this might lead to as much angst as the very specific rules we're already working under. For example, is 'Rotate Arbitrary' a 'full photograph alteration'? Posterize? Invert? If we're going to go this route, I suggest you clearly define *exactly* which full photograph alterations you can use.

Here's my list:

Crop
Mode - Grayscale
Levels (Auto Levels)
Curves
Color Balance
Bightness & Contrast (Auto Contrast)
Hue & Saturation (including Colorize)
Desaturate
Rotate (90, 180, Arbitrary)
Variations (useless newbie stuff)
Despeckle (why anyone would use it is beyond me!)
Sharpen

Anything more than this should not be necessary!


I pretty much agree with the list, although I'd like to add two
things :

Duotones and Channel Mixer. They can make a huge improvement over the 'newbie' tools like 'Mode-Grayscale' or 'Desaturate'

This link tries to show the difference.


04/10/2002 08:33:01 PM · #10
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
agrees with mousie...

no spot modification, no watercolors, no oil paintings.. none of the artistic edits...


Yup, I'd agree with that.


04/10/2002 08:39:41 PM · #11
I'd like to add that you can only touch the RGB channel, and not individual channels (sorry, no channel mixer.) Once you start adjusting per channel, you're getting into advanced color theory that most beginners just won't be able to compete against. Put any image here in front of a beginner and ask them if the shadows could use a little more red, or the hilights a little less blue, etc, and they'd go "HUH?"

Let's stick to full photograph alterations AND full channel alterations (i.e. RGB NOT R and/or G and/or B)
04/10/2002 08:50:38 PM · #12
Originally posted by mykoleary:
I'd like to add that you can only touch the RGB channel, and not individual channels (sorry, no channel mixer.) Once you start adjusting per channel, you're getting into advanced color theory that most beginners just won't be able to compete against. Put any image here in front of a beginner and ask them if the shadows could use a little more red, or the hilights a little less blue, etc, and they'd go "HUH?"

Let's stick to full photograph alterations AND full channel alterations (i.e. RGB NOT R and/or G and/or B)



Arrrrghhhhh - no no no - that was the whole point of the other thread. If you start doing hue/saturation you _already_are_ allowing single channel alterations.

Colours are 3-d, but we work with different co-ordinate sets. hue/saturation/lightness or red/green/blue or c/y/m/(the black is kludge, or k) or any of many different co-ordinate systems don't have a one to one relationship.

I don't see the point in putting in this misguided restriction, which only exists if you don't understand the colour theory in the first place.

Let them be there, the beginners can learn to use them with time. Doesn't mean you have to restrict people that understand what they are doing.

After all, it is a digital photography contest, not a digital photography feel good about not knowing how to do digital photography class. People learn and will be pushed to learn more, if they are stretched - least that's how I feel the challenge pushes me.




* This message has been edited by the author on 4/10/2002 9:00:08 PM.
04/10/2002 09:01:26 PM · #13
If the photograph is good to begin with, most of these are mute points...

** moot **



* This message has been edited by the author on 4/10/2002 9:01:40 PM.
04/10/2002 09:27:32 PM · #14
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
Arrrrghhhhh - no no no - that was the whole point of the other thread. If you start doing hue/saturation you _already_are_ allowing single channel alterations.

Color me a beginner... Do you have any pointers/links to online resources or books that explain color theory?
04/10/2002 09:30:51 PM · #15
personally, I don't care what levels are and aren't allowed. I used sharpening in my photo for this challenge, but decided that it was best unsharpened afterall. Yeah, I am an amature. I use an inexpensive digital camera and don't even know how to best use the software that came with it. Really, what levels allowed don't concern me. I believe that a picture taken without any editing can still win a challenge, or at least do very well. That's just my opinion. I understand the rules should be clarified, though, for those that do choose to make adjustments.
04/10/2002 09:38:15 PM · #16
Originally posted by Maverick:
personally, I don't care what levels are and aren't allowed. I used sharpening in my photo for this challenge, but decided that it was best unsharpened afterall. Yeah, I am an amature. I use an inexpensive digital camera and don't even know how to best use the software that came with it. Really, what levels allowed don't concern me. I believe that a picture taken without any editing can still win a challenge, or at least do very well. That's just my opinion. I understand the rules should be clarified, though, for those that do choose to make adjustments.


This is very true - my last architecture picture was sharpened and slightly adjusted in the levels, nothing else.. I did though take about 20 versions of each shot to get the exposure right, along with the framing.

That's why I'm arguing for not restricting any of these adjustments for
purely arbitary, meaningless reasons.

Let people use what they feel they need, and then let the voters judge
the results. Good pictures will win, colour tweaking just helps already
good pictures, it doesn't make a purse from a sow's ear.
04/10/2002 09:39:36 PM · #17
Originally posted by mykoleary:
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
[i]Arrrrghhhhh - no no no - that was the whole point of the other thread. If you start doing hue/saturation you _already_are_ allowing single channel alterations.


Color me a beginner... Do you have any pointers/links to online resources or books that explain color theory?
[/i]


links to info


04/10/2002 09:54:00 PM · #18
Gordon, you'll be receiving your 'most posts in one night' award in the mail shortly. ;)
04/10/2002 10:12:30 PM · #19
Just to clear this up, you can do whatever you want to with colors, brightness, or sharpening of a photo as long as it is done to the whole picutre. No touch up work example clone stamp, no other filters besides shapen.
04/10/2002 10:35:19 PM · #20
I've read this, and English is my first language, and I still don't know if I can adjust levels on individual color channels. I'd also like to know if changing to LAB mode before sharpening in the lightness channel is acceptable.
04/10/2002 11:00:24 PM · #21
The IDEA (not finalized until we agree on something) is...

Any adjustment may be made to the image so long as it is done to the whole image -- with the exception of filters, of which only sharpening may be done.

That make sense?
04/10/2002 11:31:24 PM · #22
That gets my vote. Thanks!
04/11/2002 02:08:55 AM · #23
sounds like we got a winner, I am all for that.
04/11/2002 02:31:55 AM · #24


I agree with this

* This message has been edited by the author on 4/11/2002 2:32:27 AM.
04/11/2002 05:57:03 AM · #25
Originally posted by drewmedia:
The IDEA (not finalized until we agree on something) is...

Any adjustment may be made to the image so long as it is done to the whole image -- with the exception of filters, of which only sharpening may be done.

That make sense?


Agreed...


Pages:  
Current Server Time: 04/24/2019 01:50:36 PM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2019 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 04/24/2019 01:50:36 PM EDT.