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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Reducing Grain......
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05/06/2003 10:40:28 AM · #1
Hi All,

I have some shots taken yesterday that I unwittingly shot at ISO 800 and I won't have the opportunity to reshoot. The shots are okay but I would like to reduce the graininess (spelling?) of them. I know there is a number of PS actions the one can use but I was wondering if anyone has any particular experience with this area and any advice.

Cheers,

Todd.
05/06/2003 10:47:10 AM · #2
Neat image program is good to take out the grain.

I have learned that using low light will cause the picture to be grainy. I have been trying to get better pictures and finding that lighting is the key to a way clearer pictures. The better lighting the cleaner the picture. It is just getting the lighting to be perfect without to much of it. That is frustrating, but a challenge. Hope you get things worked out.
05/06/2003 10:48:10 AM · #3
neatimage is a grain reducing program...some people don't like what it does to photos...others really like it
05/06/2003 11:02:57 AM · #4
FYI a trial version of this program is available here:

//download.com.com/3000-2192-9641470.html?tag=lst-0-1

Pedro
05/06/2003 11:03:47 AM · #5
fred miranda has a noise reduction action for 10d. he has a good rep. i havent used it but others speak highly of his actions.

fredmiranda.com

i use neatimage sometimes and i think it works well with 10d when you turn off all sharpening in NI, and do it yourself in photoshop, AND turn the noise reduction down to about 60%.

Message edited by author 2003-05-06 11:04:51.
05/06/2003 11:20:51 AM · #6
I have it, i'd recommend that you get it or Neatimage. Both are really good at clearing up noises.

It will make the images SOFTER after you do this, but you can use Fred's Custom Sharpen which will only sharpen the edges (contains masks, etc.) and won't sharpen the rest, leaving a very clean image.

Those two are probably his best... some of the other ones aren't worth the money.....


Originally posted by magnetic9999:

fred miranda has a noise reduction action for 10d. he has a good rep. i havent used it but others speak highly of his actions.

fredmiranda.com

i use neatimage sometimes and i think it works well with 10d when you turn off all sharpening in NI, and do it yourself in photoshop, AND turn the noise reduction down to about 60%.
05/06/2003 11:21:58 AM · #7
thanks everyone,

will try both angles and see which provides the best results.... I have heard of Fred Miranda.... I am off to investigate now.

Cheers,

Todd
05/06/2003 11:22:50 AM · #8
Low light gives you grainy photos because there are more noises affecting SHADOWS than highlights. That's the reason, at least on the 10D it's noticeably annoying, even at ISO 100.

(Take a photo of a guy wearing black/dark pants... look at the pants, it'll have noises)

This is why Miranda's ISO noise reduction also has one for ISO 100.

Originally posted by Sonifo:

Neat image program is good to take out the grain.

I have learned that using low light will cause the picture to be grainy. I have been trying to get better pictures and finding that lighting is the key to a way clearer pictures. The better lighting the cleaner the picture. It is just getting the lighting to be perfect without to much of it. That is frustrating, but a challenge. Hope you get things worked out.
05/06/2003 11:34:28 AM · #9
paganini,

which would you say is ultimatey better?

Cheers,

todd
05/06/2003 11:40:39 AM · #10
2 considerations:

1) NI is free for the basic version

2) if the miranda actions use layers, they will not be DPC legal, if you intend to use them for this site

some things to consider ..
05/06/2003 11:48:15 AM · #11
How's Fred's DIFFERENT from Neat image though? Neat Image does masking as well -- that's why they make you do test shots with your camera because it selectively reduces noises based on certain params.

Originally posted by magnetic9999:

2 considerations:

1) NI is free for the basic version

2) if the miranda actions use layers, they will not be DPC legal, if you intend to use them for this site

some things to consider ..
05/06/2003 11:58:42 AM · #12
i truly dont know. i just know that FM's uses photoshop and NI is it's own standalone.

anyone know?
05/06/2003 11:59:33 AM · #13
never used neatimage, only heard good thing about it. I got Fred's action....

Originally posted by todd10d:

paganini,

which would you say is ultimatey better?

Cheers,

todd
05/06/2003 12:00:39 PM · #14
The reason I am saying that it does selecting masking is if you look at the output of the neat image, it's not "soft" as if you do a straight blur, it's selective similar to FM (i.e. they don't smooth the edges of the image, for FM i think he did a EDGE find, and then only smooth the parts that aren't part of the edge)


Originally posted by magnetic9999:

i truly dont know. i just know that FM's uses photoshop and NI is it's own standalone.

anyone know?
05/06/2003 12:04:41 PM · #15
Just consulted my Real World Photoshop book about noise from scans that may be useful here as well. One way towards reducing noise is to apply sharpening to each channel separately. The blue channel tends to be the noisiest. Use Despeckle on the blue channel and Dust and Scratches for red and green channels. Use small radius settings; use the same radius settings for red and green channels. If you use radically different radius on the various channels you may get color fringing.

For my taste, the softening on Neat Image is too extreme and changes the whole picture. Might be a nice effect for a picture or two but then you get tired of it. With Neat Image is there any way you can control the areas you want softened, i.e. potential to use masks?

Todd10d, sorry to say this but i was sorta happy to read your mistaken 800 ISO use. Just got my G3 and in the first week caught myself a number of times using by mistake the wrong WB or EV because i had forgotten to check the setting since the last shoot. Glad to know i wasn't alone in such goofs :)

edit: slow typing, just read you can do masks w NI

Message edited by author 2003-05-06 12:06:38.
05/06/2003 12:11:25 PM · #16
Originally posted by paganini:

for FM i think he did a EDGE find, and then only smooth the parts that aren't part of the edge
[/quote]

If you have his action, don't you know??? With an action normally, you can see every step and make further changes. Actions aren't only productivity tools but you can learn a lot from them as well.
05/06/2003 12:22:32 PM · #17
Originally posted by Journey:


For my taste, the softening on Neat Image is too extreme and changes the whole picture. Might be a nice effect for a picture or two but then you get tired of it. With Neat Image is there any way you can control the areas you want softened, i.e. potential to use masks?


I'd agree that neatimage gets horribly abused. This however isn't a neccessary evil of the tool. It can be used to do really subtle work too.

It is ridiculously configurable - which is quite possibly why many people don't use it subtly at all - it takes some work to learn.
05/06/2003 12:39:10 PM · #18
I do know but there is something about Copyright :) so i probably shouldn't reveal too much.


Originally posted by Journey:

Originally posted by paganini:

for FM i think he did a EDGE find, and then only smooth the parts that aren't part of the edge


If you have his action, don't you know??? With an action normally, you can see every step and make further changes. Actions aren't only productivity tools but you can learn a lot from them as well.[/quote]
05/06/2003 04:42:24 PM · #19
Originally posted by Gordon:

[quote=Journey]

I'd agree that neatimage gets horribly abused. This however isn't a neccessary evil of the tool. It can be used to do really subtle work too.

It is ridiculously configurable - which is quite possibly why many people don't use it subtly at all - it takes some work to learn.


Sounds good. I'll get the free trial version and do some fiddling. I was under the mistaken belief that Neat Image was a one click thing and it made me wonder who deserved the credits for NI images, the person who took the shot or NI who drastically altered it.

Message edited by author 2003-05-06 17:19:08.
05/06/2003 05:21:26 PM · #20
The real secret to Neat Image is to Auto Fine Tune the NR algorithym. It only really affects the area's you are looking to reduce noise.

Dave
05/06/2003 06:10:09 PM · #21
To reduce grain because of too high iso-setting, I've used gaussian blur in PS with some positive results.
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