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10/04/2002 01:12:27 AM · #1
Just got disqualified for breaking the "no Borders, padding" rule. Firstly, I was taotally unaware that it even had a border! As it was my first submission and also am using a computer in Japanese, I had big problems uploading the file to the correct size, had to to change it from TIFF to JPEG in Photoshop, would a border have been added without my knowledge during this process? Finally the file size was only 35kb, couldnt make it 150kb. Any ideas how this happened? Also, could anyone explain what padding is. Thanks and lucky that it was a bad shot!
10/04/2002 01:21:33 AM · #2
you get borders by changing the CANVAS size instead of the IMAGE size - by changing only the canvas, you create a pic with new dimensions, but leaves the original image centered within it
10/04/2002 01:24:29 AM · #3
It's not too hard to accidentally add a border in Photoshop (and I'm assuming the same goes for most other image editors).

Padding is simply using an image editor to create a border on any edge of your image.

If you aren't careful how you make your selection in Photoshop when you crop, or if you accidentaly _resize your canvas_ (as opposed to resizing and resampling your image), you may end up with a band of pixels on one of the edges of your photo.

As to why you couldn't increase your file size from 35k to 150k... the only reason I can think of is when you did your original conversion from TIFF to JPEG you chose a rather low quality setting. Once you save it to a new JPG with a low quality setting, you cannot edit that JPG and get the image quality (and hence, file size) back. Your best bet is to ALWAYS save your image as TIFF (or as a Photoshop PSD file, if you're using Photoshop), and as your absolute final step use the "Save As..." or the "Save For Web" file menu to save A COPY of your image as the JPEG which you will actually submit.

Let me know if you'd like any clarification about this.... or just e-mail me. I'd be glad to help out.
10/04/2002 06:51:53 AM · #4
Natasha - sorry to hear you were disqualified. It's all to easy to accidentally add a border to your picture when you resize it.

If you'd still like to know what people think of your picture then you're quite welcome to post it or a link to it here in the forums. I (and I'm sure others) would be quite happy to score it and comment on it as we would any other challenge submission.

Hope you have better luck with your submission next week.

John
10/04/2002 07:23:02 AM · #5
I'm surprised, I don't remember any pictures having any borders when I was voting (maybe I'm just not observant enough!)
10/04/2002 08:10:04 AM · #6
Originally posted by floyd:
Natasha - sorry to hear you were disqualified. It's all to easy to accidentally add a border to your picture when you resize it.

Hope you have better luck with your submission next week.

John


Ditto -- this happened to me a few challenges back. In Photoshop, if you drag the cropping marquee over the edge of the image you will add canvas (in the background color) on that side(s).

This rule will be going away with the new site update -- see the thread asking for comments on proposed rules for more details -- but for now continue to be careful.
10/04/2002 03:45:12 PM · #7
Natasha,

I'm impressed that you're being such a good sport about being disqualified. Some would not take it as well as you have so kudos to you.

I know what you mean about not knowing. I'm a newbie also and have not edited either of my first two submissions for fear of breaking the rules. This has had a bonus though, it makes me take much more care in the setup and shooting of the photograph itself which is something I feel I need to work on.

In answer to your question about the 35Kb size of the file. If you save a JPEG there is a "level" setting that controls how much compression is done to the image. My photoshop was originally set to a level 3 which created a 50Kb file for my 640x480 submission. Move the slider up to between 8 to 12 and it will show you the size of the file as you move the slider. This will insure that you are saving the JPEG with a minimum amount of image degradation. Also be careful of multiple saves of the same JPEG. Each save degrades the image so always work on a copy of the orginal file. I'm sure some of the oldster's have a few other pointers. Hope this helps.

BTW, if you are not using photoshop there should be something similar in the edit software you are using. Let us know and someone familiar with the package will be able to tell you how to set your compression setting to avoid the problem of heavy compression/small file/image loss.
10/04/2002 03:58:27 PM · #8
Originally posted by Seeker:
Natasha,

I'm impressed that you're being such a good sport about being disqualified. Some would not take it as well as you have so kudos to you.

I know what you mean about not knowing. I'm a newbie also and have not edited either of my first two submissions for fear of breaking the rules. This has had a bonus though, it makes me take much more care in the setup and shooting of the photograph itself which is something I feel I need to work on.

In answer to your question about the 35Kb size of the file. If you save a JPEG there is a "level" setting that controls how much compression is done to the image. My photoshop was originally set to a level 3 which created a 50Kb file for my 640x480 submission. Move the slider up to between 8 to 12 and it will show you the size of the file as you move the slider. This will insure that you are saving the JPEG with a minimum amount of image degradation. Also be careful of multiple saves of the same JPEG. Each save degrades the image so always work on a copy of the orginal file. I'm sure some of the oldster's have a few other pointers. Hope this helps.

BTW, if you are not using photoshop there should be something similar in the edit software you are using. Let us know and someone familiar with the package will be able to tell you how to set your compression setting to avoid the problem of heavy compression/small file/image loss.


If you are interested, in photoshop, under 'File...Save for the web'
there is, behind one of the little black arrows > an 'Optimize to file size'
option where you can type in the size and it works out the best
compression ratio for you.

Note that you'll need to reapply your EXIF information if you do this,
for me, BreezeBrowser does this very well for Canon RAW files at least.
10/04/2002 04:14:29 PM · #9
Natasha, sorry for your troubles! Grrrh. Welcome to the group. You are a good sport and hopefully you'll give it another try.
10/04/2002 04:25:29 PM · #10
GM - what do you mean by "reapply your EXIF". I know it's there and that's another reason I leave the image alone for fear of buggering up the EXIF data. Isn't tinkering with the EXIF grounds for disqualification?


* This message has been edited by the author on 10/4/2002 4:23:39 PM.
10/04/2002 04:48:10 PM · #11
The Exif file does not need to be on the photo you submit, but you need to have a photo with it to back up your submission if you get questioned. At least that is my interpretation.

I always shoot in JPEG, edit it TIFF, and then save in JPEG for submission. I keep the original file with the EXIF unedited, but the TIFF conversion losses the EXIF on my working file.
10/04/2002 05:19:23 PM · #12
Z - I do something similar in Photoshop. I copy the original JPEG to a PSD, edit the PSD and save to the proper size JPEG. This seems to keep the EXIF intact.
10/04/2002 05:42:18 PM · #13
Different versions of Photoshop handle the EXIF data differently. Always keep the original intact (I burn them to CDs frequently).
10/04/2002 08:34:10 PM · #14
Originally posted by Natasha:
Just got disqualified for breaking the "no Borders, padding" rule. Firstly, I was taotally unaware that it even had a border! As it was my first submission and also am using a computer in Japanese, I had big problems uploading the file to the correct size, had to to change it from TIFF to JPEG in Photoshop, would a border have been added without my knowledge during this process? Finally the file size was only 35kb, couldnt make it 150kb. Any ideas how this happened? Also, could anyone explain what padding is. Thanks and lucky that it was a bad shot!

I am not in the game either I tried shoving an old banana peel in my diskette drive and it trashed my computer! ;-))
10/04/2002 10:42:18 PM · #15
Good info, I thought any editing trashed the EXIF. A keep a "virgin" copy, so I can show what it looked like before I edited.

If the PSD keeps the EXIF intact, then couldn't you make any changes that you wanted undetected?

Originally posted by Seeker:
Z - I do something similar in Photoshop. I copy the original JPEG to a PSD, edit the PSD and save to the proper size JPEG. This seems to keep the EXIF intact.


10/06/2002 12:50:18 AM · #16
Thanks everyone for your advice, it really helped! Just about to try again with the garbage picture.
10/06/2002 08:06:31 AM · #17
If I lost the exif, I copy it from the original picture.
10/06/2002 08:06:31 AM · #18
If I lost the exif, I copy it from the original picture.
10/06/2002 08:07:33 AM · #19
If I lost the exif, I copy it from the original picture so that the info display correctly when the html is generated.
For the dpchallenge shot, I sill keep the original picture intact straitght from the camera.
10/06/2002 09:20:52 AM · #20
On the image size issue, I'm surprised no one has pointed out that the rule says NO LARGER than 150K; smaller is perfectly OK.

Originally posted by Natasha:
Just got disqualified for breaking the "no Borders, padding" rule. Firstly, I was taotally unaware that it even had a border! As it was my first submission and also am using a computer in Japanese, I had big problems uploading the file to the correct size, had to to change it from TIFF to JPEG in Photoshop, would a border have been added without my knowledge during this process? Finally the file size was only 35kb, couldnt make it 150kb. Any ideas how this happened? Also, could anyone explain what padding is. Thanks and lucky that it was a bad shot!

10/06/2002 10:30:10 PM · #21
We have enough quality issues with the pics around here so I think ppl should save the pics with as little compression as possible within the 150 limit.
I am also very glad that you are taking your DQ so well. I hate seeing people upset or leaving over it. Sometimes it seems really harsh to kick out pics based on such small things, but the rules are enforced fairly across the board which is a good idea IMHO.
10/06/2002 11:01:40 PM · #22
I got DQ'ed from My corner of the world for the same thing. Was going to get all bent out of shape, but after seeing the other pictures I thought maybe DQ was better than finishing last. :)
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