Comments - I am so angry! - DPChallenge Forums

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/16/2005 09:24:22 AM · #26

Ok I really didn't want this to evolve into a discussion on commenting, religion or my inability to cope with one comment - I only wanted to know if I could contact the voter during voting ( please see my opening message.)

I think that the reason I got so het up about it was that it was the only comment(and still is after 134 people have voted) and it told me nothing except the voter was ignorant of what they were commenting on.Also I was disappointed (childish I know!)and after a bad day at work the challenge was something I was looking forward to taking part in.

So yes Bobster it is more about me than the voter in some ways but I don't think my being annoyed by a comment is going to put people off commenting. If anything I want more people to comment but constructively. I try to vote and comment as much as possible although I am nervous of saying something stupid as I am not very knowledgable or experienced ( in photography!) but the person who commented is a good photographerIMO and could have helped so much by telling me what was wrong with my pic.

Anyway I have calmed down thanks to you all and I will smile and get ion with my life - and take some bloody good pics in the future!!!!!

Pauline

tsheets

Canon EOS-350D Rebel XT

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

06/16/2005 09:29:46 AM · #27

Originally posted by Riponlady:

The comment read " religion..."
...
Yes it is just one comment although I have a sneaking suspicion that this is not the only person who is marking down due to their beliefs.
...
Pauline

In one of your earlier posts to this thread talking about playing it safe with content, that is what went through my mind... "hmmm I I bet it is political/religous based".

Those are two subjects that are sure to generate some personal reactions. Which isn't a bad thing..many think their art is successfull if they elicit a reaction or emotion.

I have only been around DPC for a couple of months, but have had quite a few times that a photo with a political or religous message have rubbed me the wrong way. Most of the time, I try to overlook my personal feelings towards the subject, and vote based on the quality of the photo. In the few cases where I didn't feel I could remain objective, I skipped voting on that entry. Some may not think it's fair that I voted on all but a few entries, but I think it's better than giving a possibly undeserved low score.

I know that isn't necessarily what the commenter in your case did (it seems he/she was thinking it didn't meet the challenge). But, since it came up, I just thought I'd throw my two dimes in.

I'd say, keep doing what inspires you, and just realize that not everyone will connect to your photography in a positive way, but know that you were true to yourself, and that there are people that *will* appreciate what you've shared.

moodville

Nikon D100

06/16/2005 09:39:44 AM · #28

If you shoot for a score then shoot what will appease the masses. If you are shooting for yourself and your own self expression then shoot what you want and let the masses decide if they like it or not.

I find comments sometimes tell me more about the person who makes them than my images. Yes, they can cause me to get pissed off but at the end of the day that is their opinion and my opinion of them can be based on their opinion. Therefore it is me who decides whether I give credence to their comment.

BobsterLobster

Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro

Nikon AF-S DX NIKKOR 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II

06/16/2005 10:08:48 AM · #29

nice one Pauline,
if you remind me, I'll be sure to post some constructive criticism after the challenge if you want it.
Bob

theSaj

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

06/16/2005 10:36:34 AM · #30

I've gotten the too dark, and I know it's a very fine line depending on the monitor you view it on. My primary monitor at work is too dark. My secondary is acceptable and my LCD at home is good.

*shrug*

Message edited by author 2005-06-16 10:36:48.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/16/2005 10:44:41 AM · #31

Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

nice one Pauline,
if you remind me, I'll be sure to post some constructive criticism after the challenge if you want it.
Bob

Yes please fellow Yorkshire person!!! You are a photographer I admire and any input from you would be great.
P

kyebosh

Canon EF 80-200 f/2.8L

06/16/2005 11:02:55 AM · #32

I generally reply to comments that seem very off or missinformed or confused before the challenge is over... some people don't like when you do that. You probably shouldn't if you are that upset though, might write something that comes across as rude or mean.

ourwebstop

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

06/16/2005 11:20:48 AM · #33

I've posted this in response to a couple of posts, but it seems to apply here as well, so here's a copy/paste:

I find it helpful when taking a shot to decide whether I'm trying to communicate *my* vision/thoughts on the topic (like "Darkness" or "Fantasy World") or to evoke the topic in the *viewer's* consciousness. I enjoy most the latter, because rather than trying to get others to see it my way, it's more a process of me trying to see things their way -- so it's more of a growing experience for me to see things in new ways.

If we're trying to communicate *our* perspective, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect everyone to agree with us. If we're trying to touch something in the viewer, it becomes more a matter of "did *I* get it right?"

Our pictures are viewed by a wide variety of people -- I don't understand why people vote the way they do, but those votes are still valid -- they're just as valid as mine. People have different perspectives on images and life. That's what makes it so fascinating to work on raising my score -- to see how well I'm seeing things from the other perspective.

(OK.. I promise I won't copy/paste this any more!)

Nusbaum

Fujifilm X-T1

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/16/2005 12:00:28 PM · #34

Originally posted by Riponlady:

It seems you have to play safe in challenges but not only in the taking of the pic but also in the content!

This depends on your goal with DPC. If your goal is to win, there is definitely a type or style of shot that works very well here. If you simply enjoy the opportunity to share your photos and compare with others taking on the same challenge, then all that matters is your own personal satisfaction. Some of the best photography on this site scores low in the challenges, so a low score shouldn't always be seen as failure.

Good luck and don't let anybody's opinion reduce your enjoyment of this site and photography in general.

msimaging

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC for Canon

06/16/2005 12:50:34 PM · #35

I think the problem with this particular challenge is that there are so many different views on darkness. The challenge called for the view of darkness from the photographer's side, not the viewer. Hence a vast number of photos will not appear to meet the challenge to the viewer, and a result of an overall lower scoring challenge in general. Still some good photos regardless :)

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/16/2005 01:19:17 PM · #36

Originally posted by tsheets:

Originally posted by Riponlady:

The comment read " religion..."
...
Yes it is just one comment although I have a sneaking suspicion that this is not the only person who is marking down due to their beliefs.
...
Pauline

I have only been around DPC for a couple of months, but have had quite a few times that a photo with a political or religous message have rubbed me the wrong way. Most of the time, I try to overlook my personal feelings towards the subject, and vote based on the quality of the photo. In the few cases where I didn't feel I could remain objective, I skipped voting on that entry. Some may not think it's fair that I voted on all but a few entries, but I think it's better than giving a possibly undeserved low score.

First: Of course you have to 'be careful' with your subject. Photography is not only about pushing the button, making what comes out of the camera sharp and colorful and calling it art. It also is about what you point the camera at. Some subjects have NO photographic appeal period. Some subjects are nearly impossible to photograph badly. Some subjects will touch the viewers hearts and some subjects will ellicit negative reactions from some viewers!

Second: Those viewing your photographs have biases and personal backgrounds and tastes. I don't understand the statement that comes up periodically that you should vote on the photographic merit of the shot and not let your personal taste get in the way. What does that mean? How can I possibly do justive voting if I'm not allowed to bring my personal biases into the mix? Let's say for example that I have an aversion to (Yes I'm using the turd example again) turds. Let's say you took the most technically perfect shot of a turd with exceptional lighting and spot on focus. You used several techniques to get the tonality of the turd perfect right down to the piece of corn. I'm supposed to vote highly on this turd photo even though I'm repulsed? I don't think so. I'm supposed to skip over this shot of a turd when voting? Why?

Do you plunk down 12 dollars to go to a movie you don't want to see? Why not? Did you not vote with your money by NOT going to see the movie? Or did you say to yourself, it wouldn't be fair of me to not give money to this movie's production staff so I won't go and see ANY movie... You see we vote every day based on or biases and personal tastes. Why is it supposed to be different here?

Third: Did this person's comment cause you to lose your home, any of your loved one's or personal assets? Did this person's comment cause your pets to run away or taint your well? Have you become chronically ill because this person put this comment under your picture? Guess it wasn't worth getting all worked up about then was it. If it DID do any of these things, let the SC know and they will take care of the situation.

Message edited by author 2005-06-16 13:24:07.

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/16/2005 02:28:02 PM · #37

Ron I take on board what you are saying and thank you for taking the time to respond.
I think the problem with this particular challenge (as in others recently) is that the brief gave a specific ruling in that it asked "what does darkness mean to YOU? (my emphasis) Now I presume that by you the words refer to the photographer not the viewer. Even if people misread through being ill informed or by "reading" the message in my picture inaccurately, they should have considered that this was my view of darkness. Therefore in this challenge the content of the pic was not up for grabs. I have seen one photo in the challenge that I find insulting and disturbs me but I cannot comment on it in those terms because the photographer has said it is his view of darkness.

Of course we all bring our own taste into judging any work of art (though I do not consider my pic a work of art, just my interpretation through photography) but however distasteful the image may be, if I wish my work to be judged within the context of its situation, my personal beliefs should take a back seat to my appreciation of the art form.

I do not look at a picture of Hitler for example and say to myself that is a terrible picture because it is of Hitler. I'm trying to avoid religious analogies here but a non Christian doesn't look at Michael Angelo's Sistine Chapel and say "Hey I think this is a poor bit of painting because it represents things I do not believe in!" You do not make a judgement on a film's quality becuse you hate the content ( mind you that seems to have been the case in "Passion of Christ" - perhaps it is a religious dilemma?)

Yes we make choices everyday but we do not ( or should not) make judgements on things out of the context in which they are presented. And the context of this challenge was my idea of darkness.

Pauline
(who is much happier and calmer and now just interested in the debate!)
:)

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/16/2005 02:37:31 PM · #38

Originally posted by Riponlady:

I have seen one photo in the challenge that I find insulting and disturbs me but I cannot comment on it in those terms because the photographer has said it is his view of darkness.

Sure you can! I understand that this is your vision of darkness, but I find it to be insulting and it disturbs me!

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Of course we all bring our own taste into judging any work of art (though I do not consider my pic a work of art, just my interpretation through photography) but however distasteful the image may be, if I wish my work to be judged within the context of its situation, my personal beliefs should take a back seat to my appreciation of the art form.

You may not consider it art, but by using your own definition (my intepretation through photography) I do! How can you have an appreciation of the art form WITHOUT your personal beliefs? I do not believe this is possible.

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Yes we make choices everyday but we do not ( or should not) make judgements on things out of the context in which they are presented. And the context of this challenge was my idea of darkness.

and the commentor voted/commented on the shot within their own context of darkness. How can you expect them to do otherwise?

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Pauline
(who is much happier and calmer and now just interested in the debate!)
:)

Good that's why I put point three in my post! :-)

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/16/2005 02:52:30 PM · #39

Originally posted by TooCool:

[quote=Riponlady]I have seen one photo in the challenge that I find insulting and disturbs me but I cannot comment on it in those terms because the photographer has said it is his view of darkness.

Sure you can! I understand that this is your vision of darkness, but I find it to be insulting and it disturbs me!

I put this badly - of course I COULD comment on it but I should not JUDGE it as not being right for the challenge.

Originally posted by Riponlady:

Originally posted by TooCool:

Because my beliefs may be contary to the artist's but I appreciate the format in which the artist has worked and the skill with which he has brought to the work.

Originally posted by TooCool:

and the commentor voted/commented on the shot within their own context of darkness. How can you expect them to do otherwise?

As I said before because the challenge was to interpret darkness in my way and therefor how can someone else say my interpretation was incorrect? By voting/commenting that it doesn't fit their interpretation they negate the brief.

What are your feelings about a subject that is abhorent to you being portrayed? Can you not appreciate the art form despite the subject? If so. you must be ignoring a whole lot of wonderful pieces of work in galleries and also a stack of wonderful pictures on this site.

Still smiling! :)

Pauline

TooCool

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/16/2005 02:56:22 PM · #40

Originally posted by Riponlady:

What are your feelings about a subject that is abhorent to you being portrayed? Can you not appreciate the art form despite the subject? If so. you must be ignoring a whole lot of wonderful pieces of work in galleries and also a stack of wonderful pictures on this site.

Still smiling! :)

Pauline

I look at them and wonder why did the photographer bother. Road kill shots are a real life example for me. I can't stand them and will always vote them very low. For every Road kill shot there is here there are thousands of other shots for my perusal so I don't lose sleep over them.

rox_rox

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 USM

06/16/2005 03:01:04 PM · #41

I'm no longer a Christian, but I spent a lot of my life learning the religion. One of the teachings that has always stuck with me is the absolute necessity of forgiveness.

I understand your frustration, and negative comments can surely hurt. Whenever I get angry I try to remember this quote. Not sure exactly, but it goes something like this:

"Anger is a poison that you take to kill someone else."

Hope it doesn't haunt you for too long.

Cheers,
Roxanne

Message edited by author 2005-06-16 15:05:55.

dahkota

Canon EOS-7D

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4L USM

06/16/2005 03:06:11 PM · #42

Originally posted by Riponlady:

I have seen one photo in the challenge that I find insulting and disturbs me but I cannot comment on it in those terms because the photographer has said it is his view of darkness.

I think I know the image you are speaking of if only because there is only one image which bothered me when I first viewed it. However, after thinking a few minutes, I decided that some people are really oblivious to many things in the world and the person wouldn't know it to be offensive. It is also a cultural thing, I believe, and would be noticed more by people old enough to have been around.

All "that" was said with the idea that we are talking of the same thing. I honestly don't think the photographer was meaning to be offensive. At least I want to believe that of people. You just never know.

d

Tamron AF 28-300mm f/3.5-6.3 XR Di LD Aspherical IF for Canon

06/16/2005 03:12:03 PM · #43

Originally posted by dahkota:

Originally posted by Riponlady:
I have seen one photo in the challenge that I find insulting and disturbs me but I cannot comment on it in those terms because the photographer has said it is his view of darkness.

I think I know the image you are speaking of if only because there is only one image which bothered me when I first viewed it. However, after thinking a few minutes, I decided that some people are really oblivious to many things in the world and the person wouldn't know it to be offensive. It is also a cultural thing, I believe, and would be noticed more by people old enough to have been around.

All "that" was said with the idea that we are talking of the same thing. I honestly don't think the photographer was meaning to be offensive. At least I want to believe that of people. You just never know.

d

Agreed! I decided this was not meant to be offensive but caused a reaction. I do think it fits the challenge.

ElGordo

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Sigma 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3 DC OS for Canon

06/16/2005 03:27:07 PM · #44

Don't worry about it Pauline. Some fool left an ignorant, nonconstructive comment on a lot of the entries!

GoldBerry

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM

06/16/2005 03:47:35 PM · #45

Originally posted by ElGordo:

Don't worry about it Pauline. Some fool left an ignorant, nonconstructive comment on a lot of the entries!

Hey wait a second, I'm taking that personally ;-)

Actually, has the comment in question been given yet? 99 times out of 100 it ends up being no big deal. She could be a 1, but there's a better chance she's a 99 :-)

U622

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

06/16/2005 04:08:49 PM · #46

Let it go, Pauline; I have finally learned that! Some of the comments I have received made me so darn upset, there are people with no tact out there and some have no ability to judge a photo, yet, there are others who are helpful and very constructive..I have found the forums are a great place for commiseration and help...when the Darkness challenge ends, post your photo here and ask people what they think, i'm sure you will get many constructive ideas...everyone has a different artistic vision. For all the people, and they are only a few, who make the most atrocious comments, there are many more fine photographers who will make concise and helpful comments..take it easy, now, Pauline!!!! good luck, Ed

Message edited by author 2005-06-16 16:10:30.