DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Nikon D70 vs. Canon EOS 20D
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 51, (reverse)
AuthorThread
06/14/2005 05:42:36 AM · #1
Heres the deal, I can afford both, but I don't think Ill have much money in the near future, so I was wondering which camera would be better. I am a student photographer, and I have used a Nikon D70, but I love Canon Cameras, and I just can't find a difinitive answer on which camera would be better for me. If I could get some feedback, I would greatly appreciate it
06/14/2005 05:44:38 AM · #2
What are your reasons for loving Canon cameras?
06/14/2005 05:47:59 AM · #3
There isn't a DEFINITIVE answer otherwise no one would ever buy one of the two makes in question.

It's always a personal decision.

Don't make a decision based on the body only.

Look at the entire system.
Which general interface style do you prefer?
Does one or other offer a better range of lenses in the area you are most interested in? (Don't just consider lenses you are thinking of buying now but judge the entire range as you may buy more lenses later)
Does one or other seem to offer a better upgrade path? (Look at models above those you are considering and think about which you might prefer to upgrade to in the future, and of course, think about which is more likely to offer new models you will be interested in in the future)

06/14/2005 05:48:25 AM · #4
You can probably save quite a bit by buying the D70, and invest this in good glass.
Or get the Canon 350D/Rebel XT, for around the same price as the D70, with about the same features as the 20D.
06/14/2005 06:09:59 AM · #5
As well as the normal considerations for buying a camera that Kavey has mentioned, if you're a university photography student you may also like to consider:

- What do the college use?
- What do your friends use? (Might be convenient to borrow lenses, etc)
- What will a student newspaper use?
- What do pro's use in your area? (Might be an advantage for interships or a weekend job)
- What do local newspapers use? (Again useful for interships, etc)
06/14/2005 06:23:20 AM · #6
Very good points, Paul...

There were definitely times when students at the evening class we did a couple of years ago would swap lenses IF their cameras were compatible.

We've also been able to swap lenses more with fellow photogs on holidays now we have the Canon compared with the Nikon we had before.
06/14/2005 06:26:01 AM · #7
I think I agree with aKiwi somewhat. The D70 and 20D aren't comparable as the 20D is generally higher spec/quality.

If you want to compare to the D70 then compare to 350D
If you want to compare a Nikon to the 20D then frankly I don't think you can just yet. Nikon are lagging behind a bit.

The 20D is a fantastic camera but as a good starter it might be best to go 350D and spend a bit more money on lenses.

Of, course if you'd like 20D feel at a very cheap price then you could always try looking for an old 10D (my first love!). Slightly lower spec but the quality is great. I find the 350D a bit small in the hand.
06/14/2005 07:20:43 AM · #8
A lot of very good points made in this thread. I haven't used the D70. I think the major advantage the 20D has is it's burst rate of 5 fps which is useful for some types of shooting but not needed for others. What are you going to shoot? If you want to do sports/action, and maybe wlidlife/birds in flight, then the faster burst rate is your bag. If you lean more to portraits and landscapes, go for the D70 and put the money you save into glass. Either way you'll be getting a great DSLR and buying into a top notch system.
06/14/2005 07:23:59 AM · #9
This might be a good read for you:

//www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm
06/14/2005 09:40:18 AM · #10
Originally posted by colda:

This might be a good read for you:

//www.kenrockwell.com/tech/20dd70.htm


Ah yes the Jack of all trades, master of none...(glad to see that he dropped some of the banner ads and pop-ups from his site).
06/14/2005 09:53:43 AM · #11
Hmm.. I'm not sure Ken's less-than-impartial articles are particularly helpful in coming to a decision.
06/14/2005 09:59:04 AM · #12
Originally posted by ganders:

Hmm.. I'm not sure Ken's less-than-impartial articles are particularly helpful in coming to a decision.


OK, so I just skimmed this article (and yes, I'm a D70 owner) but everything in this article seemed pretty impartial to me. He makes a lot of good points as to why you might prefer the 20D over the D70, and lays out the case in such a way that you can choose what's important to you. I've heard Canon folks complain about Ken's reviews before, and maybe there's a good reason. But I just don't see it in this article. I think if I were in a position to make this type of choice that this article would be helpful. What am I missing?
06/14/2005 10:07:44 AM · #13
You guys have been a lot of help, and now that I think about it, you are right. I shoot a lot of wildife, and I need the money for added lenses as a 55mm lens does absolutely jack at a hundred meters. I found a really good price on a new D70 eith the standard 18-70mm ($600) and I think Ill pick up a VR 70-300mm lens, or a straight up 600mm lens. THanks for the info guys. Im not going witht he digital Rebel only because I called down to CSU Monterey Bay, and their newspaper and staff use Nikon, and I like the idea of being able to borrow lenses. Thanks for the help!
06/14/2005 10:15:14 AM · #14
Originally posted by pirate_mafia:

You guys have been a lot of help, and now that I think about it, you are right. I shoot a lot of wildife, and I need the money for added lenses as a 55mm lens does absolutely jack at a hundred meters. I found a really good price on a new D70 eith the standard 18-70mm ($600) and I think Ill pick up a VR 70-300mm lens, or a straight up 600mm lens. THanks for the info guys. Im not going witht he digital Rebel only because I called down to CSU Monterey Bay, and their newspaper and staff use Nikon, and I like the idea of being able to borrow lenses. Thanks for the help!


Check it, you might even get tips/tricks from This Guy He's in your area and uses the D70.

06/14/2005 10:20:47 AM · #15
What Pros use...

...and here...
06/14/2005 10:45:27 AM · #16
Originally posted by eqsite:

OK, so I just skimmed this article (and yes, I'm a D70 owner) but everything in this article seemed pretty impartial to me.

To be fair to him, I didn't bother going and reading that particular article - I have a feeling he's made some updates since last time I read it.

The trouble with Ken is that he obviously decides what his opinion is before he touches the keyboard, and seems to deliberately interpret every fact he can to best support that opinion. Perhaps it's a style issue, but I always wince when I see people offering his articles as anything other than "if you agree with Ken this article will reassure you that he's right".
06/14/2005 10:50:55 AM · #17
Fair enough, but I'd recommend going back and looking at the article again as I think he has some good points. Here's a snippet from the opening paragraph:

I've been using Nikon for decades and just got a D70 a few months before the announcement of the 20D. I love the 20D, and after using it they are similar cameras, and each is a little better depending on what you want to do. Neither is better on an absolute basis.

Originally posted by ganders:

Originally posted by eqsite:

OK, so I just skimmed this article (and yes, I'm a D70 owner) but everything in this article seemed pretty impartial to me.

To be fair to him, I didn't bother going and reading that particular article - I have a feeling he's made some updates since last time I read it.

The trouble with Ken is that he obviously decides what his opinion is before he touches the keyboard, and seems to deliberately interpret every fact he can to best support that opinion. Perhaps it's a style issue, but I always wince when I see people offering his articles as anything other than "if you agree with Ken this article will reassure you that he's right".
06/14/2005 10:58:53 AM · #18
I don't put a lot of decision making interest in Ken Rockwell simply because he is one guy recounting personal experiences, pretty far from the in-depth reviews offered by a site like //www.dpreview.com. The notion of paying him for this seems almost ludicrous; I have seen countless posts in these forums (and indeed in this thread) that offer excellent advice based on personal experience that did not involve the writer holding their hand out.

This particular review to a large degree is all about how the D70 and 20D stack up based on Ken's shooting style, which makes it far less valuable information to me in the decision making process unless I actually shoot the same way he does. He casts some pretty strong bias in the review.

Two examples -

Ken thinks the difference between the max flash sync on the 20D being 1/250 and the max on the D70 being 1/500 is big D70 advantage, he even says the Nikon is "twice as good" (its not twice as "good", its twice as fast). But that is marrying up to his shooting style - I use fill flash all the time and rarely need to use a faster sync than 1/250, and when I do there is such a thing as high speed sync on better external flashes, although he does not mention this. While high speed sync does reduce effective range, it is still something that is very usable and is not the huge limitation that he makes it out to be. I certainly don't see this as the "Strong advantage" that Ken does.

Ken gives the 20D a small nod for having a vertical grip available, but indicates in the notes that he does not use them himself and gives the impression that it is not a big deal. I shoot in portrait aspect frequently, and I can assure Ken that this is indeed a big deal to a great many photographers. The balance that the battery grip gives to the setup (with heavier lenses especially) and the comfort of having the shutter release on the vertical grip are actually a deal breaker to me - I simply would not buy a D70 for that reason alone. Of course, if I posted a review of the D70 and said that, it would come off as very anti-Nikon. Its not, I have great respect for Nikon, I simply think it was foolish of them not to offer that accessory on the D70. But then again I am not writing a review like that on the D70 because that is a strong personal preference, one that only applies to a subset of photographers.

The one thing I really do agree with is that if you already have a significant investment in lenses, you should probably stick with the same brand of camera. But much of his "review" is really just recounting the cameras in a reflection of his own tastes. Nothing wrong with that really, it can make you think about things you may not have considered, but I sure wouldn't use his reviews as the main source of a decision. I think just about anyone would be better off going to DPReview.com, reading the in-depth reviews side-by-side and then making their own decision based on what they need in a camera.

Edit: I have a 20D largely because of my lens collection. I do think the 20D is a fine camera, but I really would have considered a Nikon if I was starting from scratch.

Message edited by author 2005-06-14 11:00:22.
06/14/2005 11:03:42 AM · #19
Prirate, where did you find a d70 for $600? That seems to cheap, about half of what the good retailers are selling it for. Remember, if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. Be sure and check them out on bixrate.com
06/14/2005 11:07:31 AM · #20
Things I use:

Resolution & max print size: Canon 8MP to 6.
ISO: Canon 100-3200 vs. 200-800.
Exposure comp: Nikon +/- 5 to +/- 2.
Burst: Canon 5fps to 23 vs 3 fps to 12.

Everything else for me is tiny, practically insignificant differences to me. I chose Canon because of upgrades. You could get a 300D or 350XT now, 20D later, 1D II and 1Ds II and Nikon just doesn't have as many options, thought they have good ones. You can't really go wrong with EITHER camera. Think about what's most important to you - money (get the 300D), performance (20D), speed (20D), exposure control (20D and D70) or what? What do you need?

M

06/14/2005 11:10:01 AM · #21
Rich, you have lots of valid points. And if you read the article in question (and it appears that you have), you see right up front Ken's disclaimer that this is all his opinion and he repeatedly states that these opinions are based on his shooting style. I'm certainly not saying that anyone should base their decision on this review alone. I wouldn't recommend that about any one review. My objection was to dismissing this review simply based on the fact that it's based on Ken's opinions. Most reviews are based on someone's opinions. I personally think that this review was fairly balanced. While you may disagree with certain points in it, I think Ken did a decent job of telling you his biases up front so you can dismiss them if you like.

Anyway, I'm not here to be an apologist for Ken Rockwell. I was just curious why the vehement reaction to citing one of his reviews that I thought was fairly presented.
06/14/2005 11:20:01 AM · #22
Well, that's the thing - I don't really think the review is fairly presented when he does not include common things like high speed sync - the review presents the 20D as being incapable of synchronizing with a flash at any speed faster than 1/250, and that simply is not so (not with a decent external flash anyway). I don't want to disect the article section by section (who does) but I don't really think that much of it compared to the stuff by Phil Askew.

06/14/2005 11:36:32 AM · #23
Rich, you're right. He does make it sound like the 20D can't use a flash synch greater than 1/250 (I think he's assuming on-camera flash only), and that isn't fair, unless you're going to be limited to on-camera flash. And I don't want to disect the article any more than you do. I think we've made enough hay out of it :)
06/14/2005 11:37:21 AM · #24
I must admit, I read the Ken Rockwell article before buying my 20D. It was semi useful in highlighting potential issues, but his writing style really gets my hackles up: he pretends to be impartial, but is in fact subject to a significant bias. His choice of comparisons to make is always made in such a way as to (with me here using an emotive and imprecise term) "belittle" the Canon (as I recall), while promoting the best of the D70 features.

He does it in such a way that it is difficult to pin examples down. I would hate to have an argument with him: I bet he is as slippery as they come in a debate. I imagine him as being the kind of person who holds up examples that are not quite right, subtly manipulated to suit his purposes, so as to appear to be crowd pleasingly straightforward, and impossible to rebut in a crowd pleasing fashion. I am feeling irritated by just thinking about that style of argument - makes me cringe.

Anyway - Ken does have some good points, and his site is educational, but the D70-20D comparison makes me cringe, and I cannot explain why in straightforward terms.
06/14/2005 11:38:29 AM · #25
Thats because Ken Rockwell secretly is on the board for Nikon and the company is seeking to take over the WORLD!!!!! muhahaha!
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 03/29/2024 06:46:14 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2024 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 03/29/2024 06:46:14 AM EDT.