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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> What Exactly IS a "Decision"?
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05/25/2005 01:59:41 PM · #1
Challenge topic:

We all have to make them. Creatively shoot a decision.

Speaking in the abstract, how does one go about shooting a "decision"? How is a "decision" different than a "choice"? Is an image of INdecision on topic? After all, in order to MAKE a decision we have to progress from a state of indecision to decision, no?

The interesting thing here, semantically, is that we have been asked to photograph the decision itself, not (for example) the options from which we may choose, and not (for another example) the condition of indecision, the "inability to choose".

So, how do you shoot a "decision"? For example, when I got up this mornign and saw it was cold & rainy out, I "decided" to wear loungin pants when I got dressed, not "outside" pants; so I am wearing those now. My "decision" is that I am wearing these pants, so technically a shot of me wearing these pants is a shot of a decision. On the other hand, a shot of me standing in my boxer shorts holding in my left hand the one pair, in my right the other, and looking confused, is a shot of "INdecision". A shot of both pairs of pants laid out on my bed, awaiting my decision, is a shot of a "choice".

Is anyone gonna think this hard about it? Not many, I suspect. The idea of capturing "a decision" is a daunting one. This challenge, I predict, will be filled with images of indecision, and images of choices.

Robt.
05/25/2005 02:08:06 PM · #2
Originally posted by bear_music:



Is anyone gonna think this hard about it? Not many, I suspect. The idea of capturing "a decision" is a daunting one. This challenge, I predict, will be filled with images of indecision, and images of choices.

Robt.


I completely agree. And for those that DO manage to capture a decision? How many DNMC do you you think they'll get? ;)

d, who is trying to decide to even enter this one. Does that count? :)
05/25/2005 02:09:01 PM · #3
Originally posted by bear_music:

Speaking in the abstract ..


and a hush falls over the crowd, killing several.
05/25/2005 02:09:28 PM · #4
you read to much into the challenges :).. But a good point is made and agree with what you're saying. As far as my shot goes it'll be between a choice and indecision. IMO a photo of a decision already made, like you said with you pants would be a boring one. Unless the shot was of you reclined in a lazy-e-boy, book in hand and fast asleep as the rain runs down the window.. decision.. plenty would be made in that photo.
05/25/2005 02:14:25 PM · #5
Bear, as always you make an insightful argument. I'm not sure I can differentiate the semantics between a "decision" and a "choice" though. In my mind they are pretty much the same. I think in order to show the actual act of making a decision, you need to show the choices involved and the actual moment of decision. In your case, perhaps a shot of you putting on your pants (oh, we can only dream of such a shot :-P) with the other pants in the background? The first thing that came to my mind was the old Coke vs. Pepsi with a hand reaching for the Coke (obviously not the Pepsi). I'm sure something more insightful is possible, but if it's too far of an intellectual stretch, then you can assume how the voters will treat it.
05/25/2005 02:17:22 PM · #6
I think its an easy challenge. But I can think of a lot of decisions that one makes through the day or in a life.


05/25/2005 02:21:10 PM · #7
Originally posted by eqsite:

Bear, as always you make an insightful argument. I'm not sure I can differentiate the semantics between a "decision" and a "choice" though. In my mind they are pretty much the same. I think in order to show the actual act of making a decision, you need to show the choices involved and the actual moment of decision. In your case, perhaps a shot of you putting on your pants (oh, we can only dream of such a shot :-P) with the other pants in the background? The first thing that came to my mind was the old Coke vs. Pepsi with a hand reaching for the Coke (obviously not the Pepsi). I'm sure something more insightful is possible, but if it's too far of an intellectual stretch, then you can assume how the voters will treat it.


Yup, that's essentially my point. Just wanna get people THINKING about this. I figure, the more we do that, the better are the chances of some relatively insightful photos.

Incidentally, strictly speaking, a decision is what one arrives at by making a choice. It's more of an object than an action. A choice is more of an action than an object. Modern usage has blurred the distinction, however.

Robt.

Message edited by author 2005-05-25 14:21:51.
05/25/2005 02:23:05 PM · #8
Originally posted by bear_music:


Yup, that's essentially my point. Just wanna get people THINKING about this. I figure, the more we do that, the better are the chances of some relatively insightful photos.

Incidentally, strictly speaking, a decision is what one arrives at by making a choice. It's more of an object than an action. A choice is more of an action than an object. Modern usage has blurred the distinction, however.

Robt.


Gotcha. And thanks for the posting, because it did get me thinking. When I originally saw the topic, I had no desire whatsoever to enter in it. But now you've got me thinking...
05/25/2005 02:24:07 PM · #9
Originally posted by di53:

I think its an easy challenge. But I can think of a lot of decisions that one makes through the day or in a life.


Oh, I can think of HUNDREDS of "decisions" I make daily; the hard part is how do you photograph a "decision"? NOT the act of deciding, the decision itself... How do you make a photograph of a thing already done, and make it clear within that photograph the nature of the thing, perhaps by revealing in the photograph the "trail" that leads to the thing?

Robt.
05/25/2005 02:25:02 PM · #10
A sales counter, an expensive lens on top of it, and a hand handing over a credit card to the guy behind the counter.

That's a decision, and the choice was to buy or not to buy. You can't depict to buy or not to buy, but the decision is clear.

The difference between a decision and a choice is that a decision is a step beyond choice. Yeah, the photographer can show the "choices" before the decision is made, but a guy shot putting on a pair of pants, without another pair in the frame, has made a decision.

If the theme is choice, then that latest scenario involving the pants wouldn't do.

This is going to be fun to score...
05/25/2005 02:26:50 PM · #11
Originally posted by eqsite:

Originally posted by bear_music:


Yup, that's essentially my point. Just wanna get people THINKING about this. I figure, the more we do that, the better are the chances of some relatively insightful photos.

Incidentally, strictly speaking, a decision is what one arrives at by making a choice. It's more of an object than an action. A choice is more of an action than an object. Modern usage has blurred the distinction, however.

Robt.


Gotcha. And thanks for the posting, because it did get me thinking. When I originally saw the topic, I had no desire whatsoever to enter in it. But now you've got me thinking...


There ya go! It's a fascinating challenge, an extraordinarily difficult one IMO. To enter this challenge with ANY entry that actually solves the puzzle is to have accomplished something, regardless of whether the ribbons go to "faux" decisions that appeal to the eye-candy voters...

That's MY opinion, of course,; yours may vary...

Robt.
05/25/2005 02:37:26 PM · #12
I agree I think most everyone reads to much into the challenge,,go go for it,,read it and go out and do what you can do,,as always this should be interesting!

Jen
05/25/2005 02:40:39 PM · #13
Originally posted by jensmustang:

I agree I think most everyone reads to much into the challenge,,go go for it,,read it and go out and do what you can do,,as always this should be interesting!

Jen


How can you "read too much into" a challenge? The whole POINT of a challenge is to get us thinking about something, and about how to photograph it. The whol IDEA is to get us "reading into" the challenge. If they didn't want us doing that, they'd make the challenges ridiculously specific, like the rubber duckie challenge.

I start these threads in the spirit of the challenge, to serve as a catalyst to get people thinking about, not just reacting to, the challenge topic.

Robt.
05/25/2005 02:40:40 PM · #14
Do you mean fun to score as in a pleasure to vote, or do you mean that in the light of wondering if an image 'meets the challenge'?

IMO there shouldn't be too many that don't meet the challenge if the entry is even close to depicting a decision because after all a decision is a personal thing and to try and read the mind of the photographer, well that's pretty challenging in itself...hopefully we don't venture TOO far down the path of "is this a decision, a choice, or an indecision. ;^)

Originally posted by rgo:

...This is going to be fun to score...

05/25/2005 03:03:53 PM · #15
Would you consider this as meeting the challenge?
' . substr('//www.cabbagetownboxing.on.ca/boxing/images/gallery/reywin.jpg', strrpos('//www.cabbagetownboxing.on.ca/boxing/images/gallery/reywin.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
05/25/2005 03:45:09 PM · #16
Originally posted by SDW65:

Would you consider this as meeting the challenge?
' . substr('//www.cabbagetownboxing.on.ca/boxing/images/gallery/reywin.jpg', strrpos('//www.cabbagetownboxing.on.ca/boxing/images/gallery/reywin.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Yes.

05/25/2005 03:46:48 PM · #17
Yes, that's very certainly a shot of a decision. Good illustration of the cocnept, actually...

R.
05/25/2005 03:48:17 PM · #18
It's an easy decision to ignore this challenge!
05/25/2005 03:50:48 PM · #19
I apologise I didnt explain myself well,, I do think that you should read into a challenge and yes it should make you think,,but it seems to me that some people worry about whehter their entry will be what the challenge is asking for. It's almost like some people over anaylise the challenges and myabe that doenst even make sense. Well I know whta I mean its just not coming out right so never mind! lol
05/25/2005 03:52:27 PM · #20
should I enter, should I not?

shuold I try my best, should I just manage?

should I use a good slr, or a fair point and shoot?

should I use my left hand, or my right?

should I stay, or should I go? (The Clash)
05/25/2005 03:55:52 PM · #21
Originally posted by jensmustang:

I apologise I didnt explain myself well,, I do think that you should read into a challenge and yes it should make you think,,but it seems to me that some people worry about whehter their entry will be what the challenge is asking for. It's almost like some people over anaylise the challenges and myabe that doenst even make sense. Well I know whta I mean its just not coming out right so never mind! lol


Yes. Some folks seem to get hung up on trying to precisely define the challenge terms into the narrowest possible interpretation, then try to convince others that this narrow interpretation is the "true faith". I've been accused of that myself, but my purpose is otherwise; I hope to get people thinking at a deeper level on the challenge topic, and what makes it unique.

Ideally, the winners of THIS challenge woudl show a different sensibility than the winners of "choices" or "indecision", because while all these topics are closely related, each has a distinct flavor of its own.

Robt.
05/25/2005 03:55:59 PM · #22
Actually, the challenge does not ask us to take a shot of a descision made. It merely states "Creatively shoot a decision." This does not mention a tense - past, present or future. I would take this to include the future meaning where one takes a shot of a decision to be made - ie choices.

Of course, you may decide to disagree :-P

Message edited by author 2005-05-25 16:00:49.
05/25/2005 03:56:52 PM · #23
Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:

should I enter, should I not?

shuold I try my best, should I just manage?

should I use a good slr, or a fair point and shoot?

should I use my left hand, or my right?

should I stay, or should I go? (The Clash)


Nice list of "choices", Johnson. Let us know when you come to a "decision", ok?

R.
05/25/2005 03:57:55 PM · #24
Originally posted by swinging_johnson_v1:

should I enter, should I not?

shuold I try my best, should I just manage?

should I use a good slr, or a fair point and shoot?

should I use my left hand, or my right?

should I stay, or should I go? (The Clash)


Should I goo-oh! Sorry Swing just had to sing along.

Message edited by author 2005-05-25 15:58:08.
05/25/2005 04:00:15 PM · #25
Yes Bear music that is what I meant,thankyou and I am sorry for the mis understanding in the first statement. I do think we all have from time to time over thought something more than needed but we learn and after all that is what we are doing is learning.
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