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05/21/2005 06:59:22 PM · #1
I've noticed a number of incidences where the photo submitted doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the challenge topic. I can understand this. Sometimes my best photo of the week has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic. I'm tempted to enter it anyway as some brave souls have. So I ask you the forum readers --

When you see photos that either 1 -- don't conform to the challenge topic or 2-- use the title of the photo to force the photo to conform to the challenge topic do you:
a- mark it down immediately?
b- get a laugh and rate the photo it's own merit?
c- refuse to rate it and continue on?
d - other? (Please explain)

By the way I chose B.

Message edited by author 2005-05-21 18:59:56.
05/21/2005 07:15:10 PM · #2
I tend to rate on a scale of 1 to 10. Very few 1's. Very few 10's. Bell shaped curve in between. When I can't figure out how a photo meets the challenge, I rate from 1 to 5. 5 for a super photo that misses the challenge. 1 for a stinker that also missed the challenge. There have been a few exceptions on the high end where I've bumped above a 5.
05/21/2005 07:20:33 PM · #3
deduct a point or two
05/21/2005 07:23:51 PM · #4
Originally posted by Azrifel:

deduct a point or two


Ditto.
05/21/2005 07:43:40 PM · #5
This is a dangerous question, because the people willing to answer it in this forum probably aren't representative of the general voting public. I'm *definitely* not.

I score by segments. Photos that conform properly to the challenge start with 5 points, and I add or subtract points from there. Photos that either missed the spirit of the challenge completely but barely complied with the lettering, or that stretched too far in trying to come up with an "out of the box" concept start with 3. Those that missed completely start with 1, and tend to not get any points from me in the 'subject interest' category. Photos that make the challenge by sheer interpretive value can sometimes end up scored very highly, however, because I add bonus points for subject interest for an unusual interpretation (and score down for something I see a lot of).

My breakdowns:
Base: +1, +3, or +5
Technical: -2 to +1
Subject Interest: -1 to +2
Emotional impact: +0 to +2
Personal Bias: -1 to +1
05/21/2005 07:52:22 PM · #6
If your photo doesn't meet the challenge at all and you know that it doesn't and you just want to submit it for the sake of getting comments (or for whatever reason), why not find a site with topicless contests? There are quite a few and your photos would probably be better receieved if they weren't being forced into a category where they didn't belong.
05/21/2005 07:56:36 PM · #7
I got in trouble once , from a member when I said there were too many not meeting the challenge and I was going to give then 3's. So I keep it to myself on what I will do.
05/21/2005 07:59:51 PM · #8
According to both the Basic and Advanced rules -- "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly."

I vote the ones that clearly don't meet the challenge topic down at least a point or two, and they don't get a high vote no matter how good they are. If there is a way to interpret the topic that will fit the image, I try to give the benefit of the doubt. And I accept using the title to explain an image if there is at least some apparent effort to meet the challenge. The title is an integral part of the entry.

Images that say the photog didn't bother to try to meet the challenge, just entered something to be in, or to get others to look at it, are an insult to the voters.
05/21/2005 08:01:28 PM · #9
I try to see if there is some hidden meaning in the shot that I would not notice at first glance. Then, if I don't find it - I take a deep breath, and go with option B. But instead of laughing, I smile politely...
05/21/2005 08:30:29 PM · #10
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If a user enters a photograph that he/she thinks is great and knows it does not meet the challenge in my opinion should be marked down. Why have challenges if we are not going to conform to them? Should a photograph that looked great and did not meet the challenge out score a photograph that looks good and meet the challenge, NO?
I do mark down if Iím sure that the photograph does not meet the challenge and very rarely score those pictures above a 4. Before you start striking out at me like a snake you have to understand that I have to feel 99.9% that the photograph does not meet the challenge. And because I find this to rare I have only had to do this a few times.

Message edited by author 2005-05-23 12:38:12.
05/21/2005 08:50:34 PM · #11
I rarely give anything below a 4 for any challenge. If an image does not meet a challenge I simply ignore it..is that wrong?

What I cannot understand or tolerate at the moment, are the people who seem to enjoy handing out 1's and 2's like some gestapo guards high on power with no comment to the challenger! I'm not talking about my images - some of the ribbon winners get 1- 3's!!

I take the <bad> 1 2 3 4.....8 9 10 <good> to mean a bad/good image based on the challenge/execution mainly. Otherwise the admins should change it to <hate> 1 2 4....8 9 10 <love it>

If an image meets a challenge and is technically good why on earth should it get a 1 like some Ribbon winners?

The people who regualarly give these 1's and 2's with no comment are cowards and don't deserve to be part of such a great community IMHO.

05/23/2005 01:54:10 AM · #12
Originally posted by amber:


If an image meets a challenge and is technically good why on earth should it get a 1 like some Ribbon winners?


Personally it'd have to be a REALLY bad pic to get below a 5. To me a 5 denotes a "snapshot" type photo. You know something the average point and shoot could do without too much input from the photographer.

The vast majority of my votes are 7 and up. I normally only drop to 5 or5 lower for glaring issues -- like nothing's in focus or there's not enough light to see what's in the picture.

If a photo isn't on subject but it's competent I still judge it on its own merit. I might subtract a point but that's the extent of it.
05/23/2005 02:00:11 AM · #13
Whenever this topic arises of low scores on images that meet a challenge, I quickly look at the stats of those making comments. Stats tell me more about voting patterns then do explanations. We all have a voting philosophy and its application can be easily deduced from our stats.
05/23/2005 02:01:01 AM · #14
Originally posted by coolhar:

And I accept using the title to explain an image if there is at least some apparent effort to meet the challenge. The title is an integral part of the entry.


I was with you up to here. It irritates me that some photos have nothing to do with the challenge but the photographer tries to shoehorn it in with the title. Like you said it feels like an insult. Not on topic I feel deserves a 1 point deduction, but not on topic with a title that tells me they want unfair advantage gets a deduction of 2 points.


Message edited by author 2005-05-23 02:12:09.
05/23/2005 02:04:00 AM · #15
Originally posted by mk:

If your photo doesn't meet the challenge at all and you know that it doesn't and you just want to submit it for the sake of getting comments (or for whatever reason), why not find a site with topicless contests? There are quite a few and your photos would probably be better receieved if they weren't being forced into a category where they didn't belong.


On the nose! If you don't have to meet the challenge, why have a challenge? Someone on another thread said they gave a 10 to the person who shot their lens cover because of the title. That means he probably scored that higher than some folks who went out and actually TRIED to do well and shoot the topic! I just don't understand that - and please don't say it's my opinion. Let's face it, the only topic shooting the lens cap fits is "What's the inside of your lens cap look like".
05/23/2005 02:04:28 AM · #16
Originally posted by mk:

If your photo doesn't meet the challenge at all and you know that it doesn't and you just want to submit it for the sake of getting comments (or for whatever reason), why not find a site with topicless contests?


Sensible suggestion. There's one called Wunderground. It's mainly weather pictures, but they will let you post anything and people vote and can comment on them. There's another massive site called Flickr.

Edit note: I tried to enter the URLs for these but when I clicked on the links found they'd been hijacked to other sites so eliminated the links.

Message edited by author 2005-05-23 02:14:26.
05/23/2005 02:10:55 AM · #17
Originally posted by Zed Pobre:

My breakdowns:
Base: +1, +3, or +5
Technical: -2 to +1
Subject Interest: -1 to +2
Emotional impact: +0 to +2
Personal Bias: -1 to +1


This is a well thought out systm for voting. I've read that we should only rate on merit and not subject matter or personal taste. But in the esthetics of photography those things matter. Otherwise what's the draw of a Weston over a first year photography student?
Would we read a book and then not discuss if we liked it or not? Personal opinon should be a deciding factor IMHO of course.
05/26/2005 11:29:12 AM · #18
Sorry, I wouldn't give anyone a 10 that shot the inside of their lens cover -- unless the category was insides of lens covers. Then I guess they'd all have to be 10s.
05/26/2005 12:04:33 PM · #19
Originally posted by DebN2003:

...When you see photos that either 1 -- don't conform to the challenge topic or 2-- use the title of the photo to force the photo to conform to the challenge topic do you:
a- mark it down immediately?
b- get a laugh and rate the photo it's own merit?
c- refuse to rate it and continue on?
d - other? (Please explain)

By the way I chose B.


Neither. I differentiate between the two options you offer (above):

1. I can't know whether or not a photo meets a challenge topic and refuse to become a hanging judge on matters outside of my expertise;
2. I may mark an entry down (by a point) for a leading title, especially when this is done crudely and blatantly.
05/30/2005 05:04:05 PM · #20
Originally posted by zeuszen:


1. I can't know whether or not a photo meets a challenge topic and refuse to become a hanging judge on matters outside of my expertise;


I'm talking about blatantly not following the theme. For example if the challenge is: "take a picture of a shoe" and someone submits a picture of the moon -- how would that even begin to meet the challenge? I've seen a number of loose interpretations of challenges, but normally they have, at least in some small way, something to do with the challenge.
But if someone submits a photo of the moon and titles it "Not a shoe" that's pretty unfair to those who worked to get shoe pictures and it insults the voters as well. I have no problems marking it down.
06/06/2005 10:35:40 PM · #21
It really depends for me... would I ever give a photo that is utterly non-challenge related a 10 ? No.

I tend to knock about 2 points off right off the top if it doesn't fit.
If it is still a great photo and I like the subject, framing ect. Then I might still rate it as high as an 8.

Does anyone else start to score slightly lower when the same subject/idea keeps popping up ? I know it's bound to happen of course but when I'm all done voting I tend to go back through and re-adjust photos that there are a lot of the same sort of thing.
06/06/2005 10:54:34 PM · #22
I start my voting by assessing whether the shot meets the topical requrement of the challenge. If a photo cant be linked to the challenge by it's content then it's missed the whole point of the challenges. The challenges are simply that, a challenge for the photographer to convey a topic with his/her own style and techniques with the purpose of inproving those, not just to take any old photo and submit it. This is no way being negative toward anyone, simply my view on things.
06/06/2005 10:55:55 PM · #23
It is hard at times to know if it fits or not. the frame challenge is a good example of a large grey area open to interpretation.

I feel this is a visual medium. The photograph has to speak and stand on it's own merits. I try to ignore the title (and hate thinking them up for my pics). The challenge topic is all the title we should need most of the time.

If i truly feel a photo is not hitting hte topic, then it gets scored 1-5. Occassionally i have given an extraordinary one a 6.

As for those that use the title to try and draw a connection between a moon and a shoe - i smirk, and then they get demerits for insulting the rest of us that tried to follow the spirit of the game.
06/06/2005 11:57:03 PM · #24
Originally posted by DebN2003:

Originally posted by zeuszen:


1. I can't know whether or not a photo meets a challenge topic and refuse to become a hanging judge on matters outside of my expertise;


I'm talking about blatantly not following the theme. For example if the challenge is: "take a picture of a shoe" and someone submits a picture of the moon -- how would that even begin to meet the challenge? I've seen a number of loose interpretations of challenges, but normally they have, at least in some small way, something to do with the challenge.
But if someone submits a photo of the moon and titles it "Not a shoe" that's pretty unfair to those who worked to get shoe pictures and it insults the voters as well. I have no problems marking it down.


What may appear to be a 'blatant' topical deviation, may well be a finesse, a perfect irony or some other analogous or metaphorical poise designed to speak to those who recognize it. Irony in particular can be employed as the last defense against ignorance and coarse perceptions. These are not private references or an elitist's toys but perfectly universal utilities which come with an invitation to examine them for whatever they're worth.

If the invitation contains a bomb, I don't want to be caught opening it with a sledge hammer.
If it is a courtesy extending me the possibility of appreciating something I do not yet know or feel, I"m going to honour the invitation by bringing a cordial attitude and an open mind.

I would -to use your analogy- "raise my shoe and drink to the moon".


06/06/2005 11:59:55 PM · #25
Originally posted by zeuszen:

Originally posted by DebN2003:

Originally posted by zeuszen:


1. I can't know whether or not a photo meets a challenge topic and refuse to become a hanging judge on matters outside of my expertise;


I'm talking about blatantly not following the theme. For example if the challenge is: "take a picture of a shoe" and someone submits a picture of the moon -- how would that even begin to meet the challenge? I've seen a number of loose interpretations of challenges, but normally they have, at least in some small way, something to do with the challenge.
But if someone submits a photo of the moon and titles it "Not a shoe" that's pretty unfair to those who worked to get shoe pictures and it insults the voters as well. I have no problems marking it down.


What may appear to be a 'blatant' topical deviation, may well be a finesse, a perfect irony or some other analogous or metaphorical poise designed to speak to those who recognize it. Irony in particular can be employed as the last defense against ignorance and coarse perceptions. These are not private references or an elitist's toys but perfectly universal utilities which come with an invitation to examine them for whatever they're worth.

If the invitation contains a bomb, I don't want to be caught opening it with a sledge hammer.
If it is a courtesy extending me the possibility of appreciating something I do not yet know or feel, I"m going to honour the invitation by bringing a cordial attitude and an open mind.

I would -to use your analogy- "raise my shoe and drink to the moon".


Enigmatically and eloquently phrased. I'd add one thing. That there is nothing more ironic than "It's a beautiful shot, but it doesn't meet the challenge. <4>"
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