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04/16/2003 08:28:02 PM · #1 |
Sorry you have probably been through this route a bit, but cannot seem to find a search function (if there is one please advise).
All these cameras seem to have the similar type functions but which one is the best out there and why? Or is it better to wait for another year in the hopes that digital SLRs will be a lot cheaper?
Your advice greatly appreciated. |
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04/16/2003 08:43:07 PM · #2 |
If you go to dpreview, you can compare all 3 side by side (but I suggest you use the DiMage 7Hi not the 7i. :)
(I did this exact comparison yesterday and I think the 717 will do the night/dark stuff better than the 5700 and as cool as the DiMage is and as new as the Hi is, it just doesn't cut it.
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04/16/2003 08:52:49 PM · #3 |
Thanks for your reply Mavrik, and have checked DP Reviews comparison, unfortunately to a large degree that is just numbers (but it has at least pretty much knocked out the C-5050 - zoom is just not enough).
Am hoping that some people who have experience of working with at least 2 of these cameras would be able to tell which, in their opinion, is better and why i.e. F717 cause picture is a lot sharper than 7i etc. Not really looking at the 7Hi cause it is quite a lot more expensive than the others in the UK |
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04/16/2003 10:11:23 PM · #4 |
| It really depends on what your after! Optical zoom is an important quality for me! Battery type and capacity also. The 5700 does not have a fast focusing feature, there seems to be a delay from button to shutter! I do not know much about the F717 but it appears to take very good quality pictures. I am happy with the quality of my dimage7.Playing the Waiting game for a year might prove to be rewarding! |
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04/16/2003 10:56:57 PM · #5 |
| The Dimage 7Hi IS significantly more expensive. The 7i is on par with the Nikon 5700, although the only real advantage of the Nikon 5000 vs. the 5700 is the metal body and zoom lens. ACTUALLY, the 5700 has an ever so slightly lower range of aperatures. The 5700 has f2.8-4.2 whereas the 5000 has f2.8-4.7. The 5700 is also significantly more expensive than the 5700. I don't know much about the Sony. I would stay away from Sony though. They havn't been making cameras are long as Nikon or Minolta. Plus I've never really liked their other digital cameras. Nikon probably has the best optics. Minolta is also way up there. The reason I personally chose the Nikon Coolpix5000 over the Minolta Dimage 7i is because the fstops. The lens on the Dimage is supeior to the 5000; HOWEVER, you can always add on lenses. Furthermore, if you're going for the 5700, that lens is better than the Dimage. It also has more ftstops, but not as many as the 5000. (close enough). The shutter speed used to be faster on the Nikons, but Minolta released a firmware upgrade. I doubt they can make a firmware upgrade to support more aperatures though. So just think of it that way. You can always add lenses but you can't add fstops. The Nikons are AMAZING with noise especially for long exposures and night photography. The Nikon is LOADED with amazing features for noise reduction, editing of images on the camera, auto bracketing, and more. I don't know if the Dimage has any of these features, but I'm sure it has some. Research that. It's important. It's features like these that you can't really upgrade upon. Price may also be another factor. The Coolpix's have rebates from Nikon's site. $200 of the Coolpix5000, I'm not sure what it is for the 5700 but I know theres a rebate on that as well. I purchased my 5000 for $499 refurbished from B&H. Brand new condition, stickers and all. It's all about researching and finding the deals at the right time. I personally would either try to spend little money on a digital camera, OR wait. Wait til you can afford a digital SLR like Canon 10D which is AMAZING. ($1400 or so) OR wait in general because I have a feeling theres some new stuff coming out soon. If Nikon is putting out rebates on their stuff, they are trying to move them...for something else. Hence why I figured spending $500, $600 with filter adapter, step up ring (so i can use my 52mm filters from my SLR) and a 256MB memory card....wouldn't be so bad. It would last me a few years and by that time I could get some amazing new camera without losing lots of money. Buying digital cameras is very tricky because stuff outdates...as with everything I guess. I hope this has been helpful. Good luck. |
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04/16/2003 11:16:35 PM · #6 |
I agree with Dim7, the focusing is quite slow with the Nikon 5700, also there is a delay between pressing the shutter and the picture actually being taken, so it find it hard to take candids. Saying that though, I am perfectly happy with it, it has loads of great functions but is small enough to carry around with you, not like one of the bigger digital SLR cameras. Happy Shopping!
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04/16/2003 11:20:01 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by LucidPhoenix:
The Dimage 7Hi IS significantly more expensive. The 7i is on par with the Nikon 5700, although the only real advantage of the Nikon 5000 vs. the 5700 is the metal body and zoom lens. ACTUALLY, the 5700 has an ever so slightly lower range of aperatures. The 5700 has f2.8-4.2 whereas the 5000 has f2.8-4.7. The 5700 is also significantly more expensive than the 5700. I don't know much about the Sony. I would stay away from Sony though. |
Don't know much about the Sony but stay away from it? Hmmm...
They're very, very similar cameras. Most reviews put the F717 at the top in terms of image quality and absolute resolution, but worse in the way of available features. The F717's sharper, faster lens is offset by a lack of colour control (saturation, tone etc.) continuous shooting options and zoom range, among other things. The 5700's lower aperture at telephoto is due to the longer zoom than the 7i, but they're both slower lenses than the Sony.
You've gotta decide what you're going to do with it, and what's important to you. As they're very similar, and all good cameras, you're going to make a good choice no matter what. I'd suggest that you might want to seriously consider the Sony as you've bought into another one already, and if you're not planning on selling it all you'll have at least one battery and memory stick to add to the mix.
Things to really consider include the body design and the lenses. If you're really against the Sony's tilting design, you might want to go Nikon or Minolta. If you need a long zoom, ditto. However, if you place a fast lens over everything else, the Sony is the one to go for. I'm buying the Sony in the next few days, as I'm not as concerned with colour saturation and tone settings in the camera, have Sony batteries and sticks already, like the fast, sharp lens, and don't need a super-long zoom.
Good luck with the choice...
James.
Message edited by author 2003-04-16 23:20:59. |
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04/16/2003 11:25:17 PM · #8 |
I can see your dilemma, jaam. I went with a friend to purchase a new camera a few weeks ago. She walked out with a 7i, I with the F717 (aka 'Bazooka' or 'Dark Angel.) We've since taken about 400 pics with each camera, some of them with nearly identical subjects and under the same conditions.
Our personal facit? The F717 takes very good sharp pics with vivid colours (reds are pronouncedly strong!) under varied conditions. The Zeiss lens definitely shows. Nightshot mode is amazing. The camera is relatively easy to handle and operate (feels good in hand, accessible controls, fast downloads). The tonal calibration in auto mode is not as satisfying (to me, for quick point and shoot snaps) as the S 85 (4 MP). On the other hand, there is not much you cannot do, once you've grown into it a little. The learning curve is short compared to other cameras I tried. I also have a thing for Sony batteries (they're a lil expensive, but outlast anything). The camera really acts a (fast) charger, so you don't have to invest in an second, external one - The Minolta feels big, yet quite natural to hold and handle. It also looks very cool, IMO. The LCD is retracted a lil, which makes excellent views even in bright sunlight. The viewfinder, however, is harder to use under the same conditions, coz there's no cup for the eye to fit in. The controls are fairly logical, although quite different from what I'm used to. The learning curve, therefore, may be steeper. The overall image quality is very good as well. What I did notice, was a slight brown hue to most shots we took (this jives with what I've seen in other people's pics taken with the 7i). The browns can be advantageous (clouds etc. come out with good emphasis and definition) or disturbing, depending on subjects and your preference.
The way I look at it, different cameras have different personalities. It's not easy to find one you want to live with, unless of course, you can afford a harem.
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04/16/2003 11:32:26 PM · #9 |
I just looked at all of them and went with the F717. After only a week and a half I am assured that I made the right choice. It is amazing. I love the night stuff and the quickness of the focus and shutter. The biggest thing for me in the end was how much better it felt in the hand. I am an old 35 mm guy and the pronounced lens just feels like the way I always held my old Canon AE1. I got an incredible deal on mine as well. Let me know if you are interested.
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04/16/2003 11:40:50 PM · #10 |
I have not owned any of these cameras, but the Sony 707 and 717 have the reputation as "the" camera to beat in terms of optical quality among digicams. They are hailed by Dpreview as "...resolution King of the 5 megapixel market sector."
I would own one today if it were not for those darn memory sticks...
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04/17/2003 03:53:23 AM · #11 |
I have no personal experience with the Dimage 7i/7Hi, and very little with the Coolpix 5700 but I have had an F707 for about 16 months.
To sum up, I love it. It has pluses and minuses (as they all do) but for me at least, the pluses far outweigh the minuses. It has a high-quality, fast lens, fast autofocus and generally fast operation. You just have to look at some of the shots on this site to see the quality of pictures it produces. The battery life is superb - I get 120-160 minutes of operation out of each charge. The other thing I really like is the standard 58mm filter thread, which allows me to add filters, conversion lenses and the like without adapters. The 707 doesn't have a flash hotshoe - you need to use a Sony flash (not great) or one of the third-party compatible flashes like those from Promaster or Metz. Of course, if you don't plan on taking a lot of flash shots, this isn't so important.
A colleague recently bought a Nikon 5700. For me, it's a little too small for comfortable operation and the lens design necessitates the use of an adapter to allow the addition of filters. The autofocus also seems slower than the Sony. On the other hand, its flash support is better.
I haven't used the Sony's nightshot mode much (though I do plan to experiment with infra-red photography once I've bought an IR filter) but nightframing is useful. The memory stick issue doesn't bother me - I like the form factor (and they're a lot cheaper than they used to be).
When the Dimage 7 came out, I heard people complaining about build quality and battery life, but I'm sure those issues have been addressed in later models. I've seen some very nice pictures taken with this camera.
So you can't really go too far wrong with one of these cameras, whichever one you choose. As others have said, it's more a question of personal preference. Resources I used to help make a decision were dpreview (already mentioned). Take some time to have a look through the camera-specific forums over there - there's a wealth of information and experience. Also, take a look at some of the pictures on photoSIG (you can browse shots by camera) where there are many great shots from each of the cameras you list.
HTH
Message edited by author 2003-04-17 03:53:59.
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04/17/2003 07:50:20 AM · #12 |
Depends on what you're looking for, but If it were me, it would be down to either the Nikon or the Sony. I don't think you can go wrong with either of those. They both have excellent optics, great macro, and fantastic image quality.
I would stay away, personally from the Minolta, because in any, other than totally optimal exposure conditions, its pictures exhibit considerably more noise (grain) than the other brands.
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04/17/2003 12:04:30 PM · #13 |
My friend has Dimage 7 , and I don't like his Macro shots, but nice for landscapes!
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04/17/2003 12:55:21 PM · #14 |
I have recently bought the dim7i and have found it easy to use, it is not as cumbersome as the sony 717 to carry around, has a great zoom with great clarity still, I returned the nixon 5000 after finding the shutter/picture delay frustrating and desired more zoom. The Dim has very natural colors and lots of features, auto mode is easy to begin with and lots of features easy to advance to. The Dim7i can also have lenses added to it. My partner has the sony 717 I prefer the Dim he prefers the Sony, extra memory stickes and batteries significantly cheaper with the Dim7i than the sony.
good luck with decision |
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04/17/2003 04:43:58 PM · #15 |
| Is there a reason that you aren't including a Canon in there? I have the G2 and there's a G3 now as well. As far as options, resolution, battery longevity, etc go... I think it's worth considering. |
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04/17/2003 06:09:12 PM · #16 |
Like others have mentioned all of these can take great pictures... provided there is someone behind the lens that knows what they're doing ;)
I was looking in this range a while ago. My thoughts were this:
Minolta- Loved it, manual zoom (well fly-by-wire) and manual focus ring. I didn't like however the noise levels on seemingly "normal" photos.
Nikon- Loved the optics, zoom range, macro, body is built well. But I didn't care for the shutter lag and focus was slow. Also no zoom or focus rings on the lens.
Sony- Never considered it. I'm sure it's a great cam, but I don't care for the propriety memory cards.
Olympus- 5mp range, you should be giving me more than 3x or 4x zoom. C'mon.
Canon- Same as with Olympus.
With most of these cams being pretty close in features and capabilities I think ,(and this is just my opinion), you're going to have to really enjoy the camera. Which means, going somewhere and handling each one. Holding it, take a couple pics, running through menus, etc. For me at least, it's got to feel good. Like when you're right in the middle of shooting, and you completely forget about the camera and it's funcions, it's just you and the subject. Because everything on the camera flows for you.
I wouldn't base a purchase like that on reviews and opinions of others. Sure it might give me a starting point. But if I personally haven't held it, played with it, looked at it. Then I won't buy it.
****DISCLAIMER: The following is the opinion of the author. The views expressed here are not ment to offend anyone or knock anyone's camera.
Message edited by author 2003-04-17 18:12:23. |
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04/17/2003 08:28:27 PM · #17 |
Why I bought the Dimage7i.
Price point.
28mm - 200 mm zoom. Zooming by turning the lens. Additional Macro setting. (Neither of those other two models has the wide angle.)
Lens threads for use of circular filters.
Several flash modes, fill flash is especially nice.
Many image quality settings, RAW, TIF in 4 sizes, jpeg in 4 sizes. Manual aperature and shutter priority.
5 white balance modes plus custom.
You can save your manual settings for future use.
Continuous and "ultra high speed" mode. Great for sports.
Wired remote control (not included).\
Viewfinder that tilts in addition to the LCD.
Non proprietary batteries.
I do most of my photographs in manual mode and the controls were difficult to learn but they are easy to use now.
What I don't like:
The longest shutter speed you can have is 30 seconds.
You cannot shoot infrared with it.
(I don't know what else it lacks that makes it not "cut it" :).
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04/17/2003 11:02:56 PM · #18 |
This my second attempt at a reply.The new Canon Slr was my first choice but being an emergency purchase my funds didn't match my desires. I bought Minolta dimage 7Hi because it was black (just kidding sort of). Went through all the data on the top cameras and wanted one with good zoom and it had several other appealing features and yes, one was being black.
I have always been involved in photography and am constantly being asked my opinion on , "what's a good camera? Take the Sony, Olympus, Minolta and Nikon these are quality cameras each has their pro's and cons but in the end they all balance out. The camera doesn't make the photograph. It helps to have quality equipment but some of my best pix were made on my first real camera Yashica C that had a D lens mounted on it.
My advice to my friends and co workers ... Ergonomics . How does the camera feel? I have short fat fingers and wear glasses, (just picked up up a eye cup on ebay for the 7). You won't be happy with the camera if your nose smacks into the lcd screen or your fingers cramp up reaching around to press the shutter.
Message edited by author 2003-04-17 23:04:40. |
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04/25/2003 06:31:19 AM · #19 |
Thanks for all of your replies.
I have now made my choice due to a fantastic price that I was given, the trade in on my little S75 - I ended up going for the F717 and am very happy with my choice.
Other than the price issues these are the other reasons I went for the F717:
Canon and Olympus both lost out due to optical zoom factor.
Cosidered the Fuji S602z but never really been attracted to them - most be the fact it is not a true 6MPG camera and the Pro was just too expensive.
Minolta - loved the optical zoom and think it still has the best range by far, but did notice the amount of noise that came in, and am not at all impressed with the battery life. Could not afford the 7Hi so was only looking at the 7i - but was a very close call with the F717 due to all the extra features the 7i has over the F717. However in the end, decided that I could replicate them on image software, already had quite a few memory sticks, would have had to buy compact flashes (more expenses), a decent charger and batteries for the 7i, and in the end a really special price on the Sony, clinched it.
Nikon - was really attracted by the extra zoom, camera looks and feels great, but was really put off about the focus issues, and it was quite a bit more expensive than the 7i and F717, getting towards the 7hi and E20
Thanks for all your thoughts and opinions, very much appreciated. |
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04/25/2003 07:26:33 AM · #20 |
I compared the 717 to the S602 for a few weeks of shooting. I went with the 602 mainly for its 5 fps burst ability and top 5 in 5 secs mode and bonus VHS quality movies. The 717 can't burst effectively due to a blank LCD and a little too much shutter lag to start it off--you have no idea what you got, if anything. Then the camera takes 6 switch actions to look at or delete them. You might think of the 717 as not compatible with an autowinder. And as with all digital cams aside from the 602, the movie mode is next to useless.
Otherwise, the 717 is a fantastic camera, for one careful shot at a time. |
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04/25/2003 07:48:38 AM · #21 |
I got my DiMage 7i for a non photography reason. After checking out 5 different cameras it was the only camera that fit into my hand comfortably, and that I wouldn't be afraid of dropping or cramping my hand. I have carpel tunnel in my right hand so the big selling point on it for me was how it fit my hand. The hand grip is smaller than some of the other models and it is molded to fit the hand. I don't know who designed it but I bet they had a small hand and maybe even carpel tunnel cause it is a rare thing to find something that fits so well.
I know that sounds like a silly reason, but when you compare the cameras I was looking at they all had basically the same features but when I had to make my decision I decided on what would work best for my own handicaps. |
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04/25/2003 08:44:19 AM · #22 |
Don't decide without also holding each model in your hands and seeing how it feels to you. We also chose between these 3 and one was ruled out within seconds because both of us found it so awkward to hold. Luckily we both happened to agree on comfortable shape/ access to menus and buttons etc.
Infact I used the same decision making process when choosing an SLR and ruled out the popular Canon EOS because it's grip was completely unsuitable for my hand size and shape.
We were also influenced in our choice of digital camera by my desire for the lens to go as wide as 28mm and to offer a substantial telephoto too.
I do find the results of the Dimage 7i a little noisy but find that neatimage pretty much solves that.
That said, I'm STILL happier with results from my film SLR. I know processing costs aren't cheap but since the camera and lenses come to less than half the cost of a non SLR digital, not to mention costs of peripherals such as memory and XDrive and so on, I'm not too disturbed by them.
Anyway, just wanted to throw in the issue of how a camera FEELS in your hand.
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04/25/2003 09:01:13 AM · #23 |
[quote=Kavey]
I do find the results of the Dimage 7i a little noisy but find that neatimage pretty much solves that.
quote]
Yeah I do agree that is the one draw back to the 7i, but a tripod helps a lot with that too. |
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