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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Let's Do Things Better
Showing posts 1 - 17 of 17, (reverse)
09/18/2002 12:49:27 PM · #1
A Kind Suggestion for ALL of Us

I think itís pretty obvious to everyone how the number of photos that participate each week is getting way too high for us to vote on and not only that, but itís slowing the site to a level were itís almost unbearable to surf anymore. Iíve read that theyíre moving it to another server hoping itíll make things better, but I think, considering that we donítí pay a dime to have this great place running, WE should help.

What I propose itís very simple and it has nothing to do with money. Itís as simple as being more responsible and honest to us and to our fellow colleagues.

I suggest that before submitting our picture every week, we ask ourselves if our photograph is really worth it or if we maybe should skip this challenge. Did we really take the time to shoot it? Prepared it? Or is it Sunday morning and on our way to get the paper we said, "hey look at that dog, that could work", we shoot it and submit it. "Well itís better than nothing", some of us would say, but you know, in this case, it isnít.

I think WE need to be more responsible with the material we submit. We also need to feel OK with not submitting anything if we donít have something we feel it deserves to be up there.

If we do this, we can not only have better quality of pictures on each challenge and therefore a better learning experience, but we can also help the site run smoother, we would vote more, comment more, and enjoy it more.

What do you say? Letís do it!



09/18/2002 01:21:55 PM · #2
I think it's a great idea, but I also think that the people who "dont care" enough about their photos and score enough to just point and shoot at something that "might work", are also the same people that don't truely care about the well being of this site. I might be wrong in assuming this, and I am sure there are the exceptions. I am definately one that cares about my photos, AND the web site. I think what's going on is that a lot of people have cable, or dsl and don't have a problem loading the site, then there are the people who have modem access and/or limited internet time. The people that "pay per hour" are having a hard time meeting their 20% quota, and giving useful critiques, so the "don't even bother".
I know I'm not showing up near as much in the comments lately, but diagnosis of a severe medical problem has really gotten me down, and feel that I might not be "up to par" on my commenting for this site. I will admit that i've been sneaking off to photosig, but I think that the comments there don't affect people as much as here, and if I give a 1 thumb up there cause I'm "not myself" or whatever, then it's not as big of a deal if I were to give someone here a 3 cause I was having a bad day. I don't want someones photo to place low here only because my day is crappy. I don't know if that makes sense. So I've been taking it easy here to be fair. Guess I just don't want to make the wrong decisions and end up hurting someone in the process.
I've made about 30 comments so far this time, and although that's not a lot for me, I realize that that's a lot more than a lot of people make, and I'm ok with that.
Of course, I would love for this to run with no flaws ever...but I also want what is easiest for Drew and Langdon. (does langdon exist? i NEVER see him LOL). They work really hard here, and have a great site...they deserve to have the easiest method possible.
Anyway...I guess I ranted too long.
I really like your idea, and I hope it can work! Count me in!!
09/18/2002 01:22:32 PM · #3
I admit I was one of those that submitted a photo and knew it wouldn't do well. Pencil challenge. I won't do that again.
09/18/2002 01:35:46 PM · #4
in theory this is a good idea.

in practice though, no matter how many or few pictures, some have to do well and others have to do not as good. there is no such thing as all the pictures doing equally well ..

also some people don't know they 'suck' ... and some are just trying to get comments to improve their work ..

I think everyone has the right to submit.

The best thing is for the admins and moderators to work out a way so that everyone can participate without the process becoming too burdensome to the users.

We're working on that .. : )

09/18/2002 02:00:42 PM · #5
nicely stated Mag.

When I first started, I knew mine sucked, but needed help...without the "gggrrrrrreeeeeeeyyyyy" comment for my shadows entry, I wouldn't have known about the contrast....I started out with NO knowledge, and (in my opinion) have become much much better and more knowledgeable - of course I still have a ways to go.

BUT If I hadn't just shot something just to submit, then I wouldn't have gained anything.

again...just my 2¢

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/18/2002 2:00:21 PM.
09/18/2002 02:17:35 PM · #6
I agree. People new to photography may shoot pictures that more experienced photographers would call rubbish but to them it's an important start. Luis sounds abit too big headed, a couple of rosettes dosen't mean you can ask people not to submit just because you can't be bothered to vote on them!
09/18/2002 02:27:34 PM · #7
I have also submitted photos that I didn't think would do well, and they didn't. I would never let that stop me from submitting a photo though.

I LIKED what I submitted, I just didn't think it would do well. If I did NOT like my photo, then I would not submit it.

09/18/2002 02:27:37 PM · #8
Originally posted by RedRuthann:
nicely stated Mag.

When I first started, I knew mine sucked, but needed help...without the "gggrrrrrreeeeeeeyyyyy" comment for my shadows entry, I wouldn't have known about the contrast....I started out with NO knowledge, and (in my opinion) have become much much better and more knowledgeable - of course I still have a ways to go.

BUT If I hadn't just shot something just to submit, then I wouldn't have gained anything.

again...just my 2¢

I know it's a sensible subject but I need to try and explain this better:

My suggestion is not made so that we have "great work", but better work, individually. We all have gotten better since we started here and WE know when we submit, if that is IN OUR OPINION something worth submitting or not.

That may vary depending on your skill, of course; what may be worth submitting for one, may not be for others. But still, they both are asking themselves the question, and are jugding based on what THEY know they can acomplish, individually. And that's where we grow and learn, not only from the comments someone else makes.

Hope I was clearer this time.

09/18/2002 02:39:58 PM · #9
Originally posted by Martin:
I agree. People new to photography may shoot pictures that more experienced photographers would call rubbish but to them it's an important start. Luis sounds abit too big headed, a couple of rosettes dosen't mean you can ask people not to submit just because you can't be bothered to vote on them!

Jesus... I should've know this would happen. As corny as this sound, I was just trying to help the site. Sorry if I didn't choose the right words (english is not my first language).

For the last time, I'm not suggesting we shouldn't submit when we have something we like. All I'm saying is, let's ask ourselves the question before submiting, let's not submit just to have something this week.

Sorry if I offended anyone and no Martin, my head is not big. I'm too a beginner and by the way, check my comment on Mr Potato and tell me if it seems it came from a Big Headed guy.

: p
09/18/2002 02:41:36 PM · #10
Well, voting is bearable now only because I have high-speed internet access. I could not imagine trying to vote over a dial-up connection (I have tried it at a friends house over 56k, gack!). Yet I would imagine most of the folks that vote do just that...take the time to vote over dial-up.

As this site continues to grow something will have to be done. I like the idea of the "honor" system for evaluating the worthiness of your own photo before submitting, but I dont think this will solve the problem.

Whatever happens, I just want folks to consider the dial-up user. We will have to find some way to make this easier on them. I would also like to see a poll on just how many ppl use dial-up? I would guess that most of the participants here are on dial-up, but I could be wrong.

09/18/2002 03:06:48 PM · #11
Being the one who came in last place in my first challenge (F&V), I feel that I am best qualified to comment on this thread. 1st - I knew the picture I posted sucked. Being experienced with my SLR film camera, I know what a good picture is. 2nd - I have a cheap digital camera and can't afford a fancy one right now. 3rd - I'm in the process of learning the difference between taking pictures with film cameras and digital. I've had a week vacation from work and I've spent most that time (and approx 50 batteries) experimenting with my cheapy to get good pictures from it. In the 2-3 weeks that I've been conversing on this site, I have learned SO much from the comments that I've recieved following my crappy first picture. I even got good comments, stating that I'm on the right track. There are wonderful photographers active on this site and they are great teachers.

I feel my current picture in Negative Space is so much better. In fact, even though I know my scores are low (currently 4.2), I am definately not going to be coming in last place. I'm not getting the same comments before. In fact, I think I'm scoring low because of the nagging defination of negative space. But, that's okay, I know that I won't "win" until I get a better camera that takes good quality shots.

Therefore, even though my pictures aren't great quality, I would like to keep submitting, if that's okay, to keep getting comments. I know that there are a lot of pictures being submitted which means a lot of them to go through, but for people like me, I really appreciate that. I have tried PhotoSig, but I really like the way this web site is set up better. The challenges are a GREAT way to keep on one subject and work on and vote on that ONE subject.

My suggestion, if it would be possible when the technical issues of the website are resolved is to have a seperate contest for beginners and those unfortunate enough to be stuck with cheap cameras. Although, I would hope that the "elite" would still pay attention to us and provide their comments.

I was just a little miffed by one comment I recieved in F&V that stated "If you aren't gonna submit a photo in focus...please don't feel the need to submit something". Honestly, there are people here that are using this place to learn. Why would someone put a photo up that bad who wasn't willing to put themselves through the scrutiny of others?

I am anxious for this challenge to be up and those that have seen my F&V photo, see my Negative Space, and see how much they have helped me progress.

Just one side rant (and warning).... I've taken close to 100 pictures getting ready for the "Corner of the World" challenge. I'm feeling a little self concious because although I have a decent photo, it's not the greatest. The weather here has been awful, so I'm not getting good light. I hope I can feel comfortable to keep submitting.

I think that this is the longest post I've ever made here. Thank-you

09/18/2002 03:44:11 PM · #12
I think the point is, if you can look at your own pictues, and know why it sucks, and what you should do to improve, why bother submitting? My "the Road" challegne was a good example. That was a test shot I meant to re-shoot, I did not make the time to re-shoot it, and ended up submitting a photo even I did not like. I really did not learn anything, and I wasted a lot of time. I shot quite a few photos for the fear and shadow challenges, but I did not think any were worth submitting, so I sat those out, and saved my self some grief.

09/18/2002 03:50:33 PM · #13
Connie- you are my new photography hero! Everything you said describes me exactly. I am very experienced with an SLR, but have rarely used a digital before this last month. Yeah, the resolution on my submission this week sucked, but I didn't know it was going to until I submitted it, and I didn't know why until someone explained it to me. I like my submission this week much better.
I think there needs to be a different solution than don't submit your pictures if you aren't God's Favorite Photographer. Honestly, some of that is a matter of style too. If I continue to submit, you will see that I learn toward informal, b&w, photojournalistic kind of stuff. I don't like perfection. I don't like things posed. A lot of people do, however, so I can understand if my photos wouldn't be rated as high by people with those preferences. That's fine, but I think there is room for all kinds of styles here.
Would it be possible to have a submit and critique section aside from the challenge? I know that some people already do this through posts. Could we just make it more formal?
09/18/2002 03:51:45 PM · #14
I love DPC. And I have learned so much since I have be here, and might I add met some great people. Even though my submision this week isnt my best by far, I found myself looking at the world through Negative Space. Looking for my shot. Does that make sense? So what Im trying to say is my pic this week isnt my best work, but I submitted it anyway and even though Ive got some really bad comments , I learned alot about stretching and resizing. That is what I thought this site was all about. And by the way I'll keep right on submiting.
09/18/2002 03:56:22 PM · #15
Is the workover on the site going to include an UNSUBMIT option afer the contest starts. The comments on my current are unanimus that I don't meet the challange. I wanted to take it back Monday but now I have to sit through the whole week with my first picture soreing in the 3s. }:-<
09/18/2002 03:59:38 PM · #16
I may have an idea what's wrong with a photo (and every one has SOMETHING right in it too), but it is likely that other's are going to point out things I didn't see or understand or interpret as they do. I have attempted to submitto every challenge since I joined, but because I want feedback on the effectiveness of my effort. I've never had a photo average over six, yet I know a few people have had exactly the response I hoped they would, and even written weeks later with further comments.

I've only had one class (a philosophy class) where the teacher allowed those who didn't think their work was up to snuff to not submit it. Everywhere else, you got an assignment -- you turned it in, or scored a zero. This is supposed to be an educational site, where we participate as both students and teachers for our mutual benefit. "You learn from your mistakes."
This is not a collective public gallery where each member is supposed to uphold a certain DPC "standard of quality" to qualify as an exhibitor...

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/18/2002 4:00:21 PM.
09/18/2002 04:54:35 PM · #17
It seems like people are taking, what I think to be the point, to extremes. I do not think the intent was to suggest that only flawless photos be entered, it was just that, give an honest appraisle of your work. If you just ran out in the backyard and took a picture just so you could be in the challenge, are you going to learn is there really any value in entering it.

Obviously, all of my photos have had flaws, but if there is something seriously wrong with an image, say grossly out of focus, that is probably what most people will comment.

I do not think that the real point of this thread was to say that a photographer must be at a certain level before they can enter. The criteria I use for myself, and I was just sharing my expirience, is, did I put in enough effort to fairly ask people to take their time critiquing it.

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/18/2002 5:31:22 PM.
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