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09/16/2002 03:23:22 PM · #26 |
What I don't get about this discussion is how nobody has commented on Martin's comment on Bob's picture. I don't know what he's looking at, but that photo does not look at all unfocused or washed out to me. I guess people with bad eyes can get away with giving 1s.
I'd also like to know what your voting scale becomes if your base "uninteresting, boring" picture becomes a 1. To me, those photos are 4s or 5s, depending on their technical merits.
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09/16/2002 03:32:43 PM · #27 |
Just an observation... I'm looking through the negative space photos, on my work PC. The ones that I thought were WONDERFUL on my home PC, look horrible on this particular monitor :) (NO offense to anybody!!!) I looked at my own, with this work monitor, and wondered why I even bothered putting it up. I have a feeling, the quality/settings of ones monitor can effect how "well" they can see the picturs, therefore affecting the score given to a photograph.
JB
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09/16/2002 03:36:05 PM · #28 |
The color looks natural, not saturated, that may be why he thinks it is washed out. The pear on the right is a little soft, but pear on the left is sharp.
What I do not like, is the if I do not like it I will give it a 1 idea. If that is the way I voted, I would give 90% 1's. There may only be 2-3 shot that I really "like" each week.
A one should be reserved for pictures that are "very bad" How many of those are there each week? I usually have 1-3 depending upon the challenge. For me, it is an uninteresting subject (like horse crap), and lacking technical merit (out of focus and poorly exposed), and shot in a very uninteresting way (uninteresting/unflattering angle, and poorly composed). And it really has to be an extreme case of it. Most of my ones would be shots that are comparable to pictures I have taken by bumping the shutter release when I was walking around or setting the camera down.
The pears obvisouly met the challenge, and the framing was decent, the exposure was good. This would frustrate me. I can't really comment on his critique, becuase I have left ones that were at least as idiotic. I guess the only real comment is "this is an example of a poor critique"
I would be interesting to be able to click on each score on the graph, and see who gave that score. I really do not have to have to download a list of 275 votes everytime I want to look at my picture. |
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09/16/2002 03:39:30 PM · #29 |
Martin - 9/15/2002
Good title, however it is misleading because they are infact very washed out, very blurred and very uninteresting. 1-Martin
I fully support Martin's right to give 1's and I definitely applaud his actions of leaving a comment as to why he left a 1.
However Martin, if you saw "very blurred" pears there, I would strongly recommend a new monitor, or maybe just clean your monitor if you were following ClubJ's advice and licking it :) Seriously, "washed out"? maybe, not in my opinion but maybe... "uninteresting"? That's in the eye of the beholder, so I'll say ok... I can see where you're coming from... But "blurry"? or even "very blurry"? I'm have to wonder about that...
I don't say that to pick a fight or throw more fuel on the fire, I ask it as a serious question... What were you refering to when you said this shot was "very blurry"?
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09/16/2002 04:02:06 PM · #30 |
| Maybe he just got home from the pub before he voted. |
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09/16/2002 09:33:03 PM · #31 |
| I don't know, sorry to have caused a stir. It didn't have a damn thing to do about the one. It was with the words. Good title blah blah. My wife, picked out the title, chose the image, and I took the picture. My wife has been sick for the last few days and she had me worried there for awhile. So what I was doing was defending my mate, mate. You have every right to see and respond the way you feel is right. |
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09/16/2002 10:02:47 PM · #32 |
| I hope your wife is alright Bob. I'm very sorry to hear she has been sick. When it comes down to it, all of this is so trivial compared to the health and well being of our friends and family. I will remember her in my prayers. |
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09/16/2002 11:02:37 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by shortredneck:
Originally posted by Martin:
[i]This is the reason people who leave low scores do not put the names forward with their score, bob, don't take things so seriously, I thought your picture was very very dull, unimaginative and all the rest but lots more people thought my own submission was crap but thats the beauty of us humans, we all like different things, don't waste time emailing people who didn't like your picture, concentrate on the ones who did like it, you'd be a happier chap.
It's hard for a person to not take it personally when you pretty much tell them their work is crap. I could go on and on about this subject but I know I'm wasting my time. Rudeness seems to rule around here.
[/i]
I agree. I've only been here a couple of days, and I've seen a lot of hostile and defensive messages. I really don't understand why anyone would award a score of 1. If a person makes the effort to display their work, they deserve some credit and respect. In my opinion, a score of 1 brings out the insecurity of the scorer. |
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09/18/2002 12:26:43 AM · #34 |
Originally posted by shortredneck:
I hope your wife is alright Bob. I'm very sorry to hear she has been sick. When it comes down to it, all of this is so trivial compared to the health and well being of our friends and family. I will remember her in my prayers.
She doing fine now. Thanks for your prayers.
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09/18/2002 01:23:12 AM · #35 |
Originally posted by bobtburg:
I agree. I've only been here a couple of days, and I've seen a lot of hostile and defensive messages. I really don't understand why anyone would award a score of 1. If a person makes the effort to display their work, they deserve some credit and respect. In my opinion, a score of 1 brings out the insecurity of the scorer.
I prefer to think it says something about the esthetic sensibilities (or lack thereof) in the voter. It says right at the top: 1 = "very bad" which is not the same (to me) as "not good" or "not interesting to me personally." I just ignore the ones and twos for the most part, and don't recal giving any either.
I'd like an addition on the profile page: instead of just listing the member's average vote, add the same distribution graph which appears of the picture vote result page, showing how many ones, twos, etc. each person has cast. This would still provide vote anonymity for any particular photo, while showing others on what kind of voting that average is based. I mean, a mean vote of 5 means different things if it's based on mostly twos and eights, or on fours and sixes... |
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09/18/2002 02:32:07 AM · #36 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
A lot of people here in the past have suggested that people who vote 1 and 2 scores should be forced to comment... here is an example of what happens when someone publically claims a vote of 1.
This voter left his feeling about why he did not like the photo. I don't find Martin's comments offensive or rude in any way.
How many of YOU leave comments to go along with your 1 votes and SIGN them?
... didn't think so...
Yeah???? this thread is why. I'm not sticking MY neck out that far.....no, no......never.....never ever!! ;'-D
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09/18/2002 03:26:21 AM · #37 |
I think personnaly that eveybody has the right to give a 1 and to comment the way he wants to.
In that specific case, I do not agree with the 1 or the comment but that's my opinion. I gave it a 5 with no comments.
This does not mean we cannot talk about the scale ... I think that 1 or 2 is for like ok .. I put a pear on a table, I take the shot, I post it and I don't care if it(s bad, bad composition, bad challenge fit , bad .. everything. Then I give a 1 or a 2.
In that case I like the soft colors, the composition .. I did not like the picture that much in a sense that it does not appeal me but .... I think it deserevd a 5 (in my opinion)
I am for using the full scale, otherwise it's not fair for the very good one ....
Just maybe one question Martin, do you think that, looking at all the thumbmails, that picture really deserved a one ? (at the same time I am asking this question .. because I owuld like to know, but at the same time I think it's not fair to discuss anybody's comment on a picture in a forum .... comments are done a one point in time ...
This said .. I liked the fact that you signed your one and came here to talk.
I can understand with the circumstances (his wife) that the photographer was specifically updset with your comment.
Good luck for everybody this week
(and I wish myself good luck .. I did a good start :-) )
Lionel |
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09/18/2002 07:07:14 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by lionelm:
Just maybe one question Martin, do you think that, looking at all the thumbmails, that picture really deserved a one ? (at the same time I am asking this question .. because I owuld like to know, but at the same time I think it's not fair to discuss anybody's comment on a picture in a forum .... comments are done a one point in time ...
My last comment on this subject, which I;m still shocked about the fuss it's caused, Yes I stand by my 1 score. I dont like the picture, I think it looks washed out, some over exposure and completely devoid of originality and very little thought went in to it. Again I would say that alot of people will think the same about my work and I am 100% fine with that. Lastly I want to say that looking through Bob's portfolio, he has done some stunning work at a standard that I am trying to reach.
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09/18/2002 08:23:46 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by Kavey:
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
[i]For future reference if you lick on the word "undisclosed" it will let you send a private message to the user without knowing their email address.
I licked my screen but it just gave me static on my tongue and now my monitor looks wet. What did I do wrong?
;)
[/i]
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
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09/18/2002 08:48:31 AM · #40 |
I think this whole thread is a farce. Martin (and I and you) have a perfect right to score any picture with any score they want, including a 1 or a 10 or a 5. Noone has the right to say that he (or I or you) MUST score within a particular "comfortable" range.
I have to say that I have disagreed with as many of the 10s given than I have with the 1s!
I always sign my scores and comments. Martin signed his score. I know there are people complaining in this thread but who don't have the self-confidence to do that. It will be a marvelous thing when all scoring is open and in the clear, and everyone is obliged to stand up for the score they've given rather than hide in anonymity.
Hang in there, Martin. Don't let people pressure you how to vote. They know nothing less or more than you about YOUR preferences. |
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09/18/2002 08:51:24 AM · #41 |
Based on this very thread, if scoring was public, this place would be a complete zoo.
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09/18/2002 08:54:03 AM · #42 |
<rant mode on>
Congratulations everyone.
I think it was just last week that people were complaining that people who leave votes of 1 or 2 should be forced to comment. Commendably, Martin took that to heart and when he saw a photo that he believed was a 1 he not only commented but left his score with the comment and signed it as well.
Personally, I think the pears are neither blurred nor washed out. Of course interesting is entirely a matter of personal opinion. We have to remember, though, that we are dealing with an entirely subjective field. No honestly-conceived opinion can possibly be invalid, no matter how much we disagree with it. That's why we all get to cast our own votes, and they all get lumped together at the end of the week. You don't want someone else deciding how to cast your votes, I don't want someone else deciding how to cast my votes, so none of us has a right to tell Martin how to cast his votes.
Guess what folks? Bob got 268 votes on this photograph, of which Martin's is only one of them. Had Martin not voted Bob's score would have gone up exactly 0.016 points and he would have moved from 102nd to 101st. NOT A BIG DEAL! I'll also add that I do not find the tone of the comment to be offensive at all. If you find the comment to ben unhelpful just skip it and move on to the next one; I get at least one unhelpful comment every week.
The bottom line is that you all asked for comments on 1-2 votes, and you received it. To then publically berate the person who left the comment in a public forum is, in my opinion, rude, unfair and unjustifiable. The effect of this thread is that several people have decided to stop commenting or to stop leaving their scores in comments.
As if that wasn't enough, you then add to the embarrasment by blasting JMSetzler for the heinous crime of placing too many times (4 placements). I'd hate to see what you all would have done to connie (5 placements) or timj351 (6 placements) if they had posted here. On a site that is supposed to be all about learning, it seems ridiculous to me to vilify our peers because they do well, especially when it's directed at someone who has been so outgoing and so willing to share that knowledge with others. Don't think this went without effect, either... John may well be taking a break from the site because of this.
I hope you've all enjoyed your little witch hunt, because now the rest of the site gets to suffer because of it.
-Terry
</rant mode off>
* This message has been edited by the author on 9/18/2002 1:03:54 PM.
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09/18/2002 09:03:01 AM · #43 |
| Well said Terry! And please don't John! |
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09/18/2002 09:12:01 AM · #44 |
Terry, I do not think it was a witch hunt at all because several people said .. basically your opinion.
And the way you sumarize it, it looks like this whole thread has been about blasting John .. which I do not think it was either ... basically there is 2 comments only ... and I would not write it the same way at all or in this context but I have to admit that .. when I get good comments, it's easier for me not to get upset with a bad one or one I think is irrelevant.
So ... you last comment .. seems like you are slapping everybody ... in this thread for 'bad beheavior' but I think some comments where pretty accurate ...
The thing I think we should not do is bringing any personal comment here , but I know it is tempting sometimes.
Lionel |
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09/18/2002 09:16:13 AM · #45 |
You're right. It's not my intent to go off on everyone here, but there are several whose actions I think were out of line. The fact is, those actions did have an effect and I wanted to make sure those who were (in my own personal opinion) out of line were aware of what they caused, so that hopefully they will keep their statements and actions in line with their intended results in the future.
One can always hope.
Sorry for any confusion.
-Terry
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09/18/2002 01:31:42 PM · #46 |
| I was going to stay out of the forums for awhile but I can't it's against my nature. So we all have egos some are bigger than others. I heard these egos in this thread. The questions or statements made were that a person has the right to vote and comment the way he or she sees fit. The other question or statement that needs to be address is that a person has the right for rebuttal or disagreement, that's what open forums are for. So I see no problem in continuing this heated discussion it is getting very interesting. |
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09/18/2002 01:47:05 PM · #47 |
This guy has been raked over the coals long enough. Get over it and move on to something constructive......
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09/18/2002 01:52:42 PM · #48 |
| Please don't worry about me, I'm loving having my name up in lights for so long. Would like to thank everyone who has supported my right to free speech. |
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09/18/2002 02:25:46 PM · #49 |
| So what you are saying is that the bunch of us are tired of being fools. Ok, Martin you ever go to the horse races? I have bet on a few of your Australian horses. You got big fields down under. What do you say, how about you and me heading out to the track and winning some money? |
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09/18/2002 02:38:30 PM · #50 |
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:
<rant mode on>
Congratulations everyone.
I think it was just last week that people were complaining that people who leave votes of 1 or 2 should be forced to comment. Commendably, Martin took that to heart and when he saw a photo that he believed was a 1 he not only commented but left his score with the comment and signed it as well.
Personally, I think the pears are neither blurred nor washed out. Of course interesting is entirely a matter of personal opinion. We have to remember, though, that we are dealing with an entirely subjective field. No honestly-conceived opinion can possibly be invalid, no matter how much we disagree with it. That's why we all get to cast our own votes, and they all get lumped together at the end of the week. You don't want someone else deciding how to cast your votes, I don't want someone else deciding how to cast my votes, so none of us has a right to tell Martin how to cast his votes.
Guess what folks? Bob got 268 votes on this photograph, of which Martin's is only one of them. Had Martin not voted Bob's score would have gone up exactly 0.016 points and he would have moved from 102nd to 101st. NOT A BIG DEAL! I'll also add that I do not find the tone of the comment to be offensive at all. If you find the comment to ben unhelpful just skip it and move on to the next one; I get at least one unhelpful comment every week.
The bottom line is that you all asked for comments on 1-2 votes, and you received it. To then publically berate the person who left the comment in a public forum is, in my opinion, rude, unfair and unjustifiable. The effect of this thread is that several people have decided to stop commenting or to stop leaving their scores in comments.
As if that wasn't enough, you then add to the embarrasment by blasting JMSetzler for the heinous crime of placing too many times (4 placements). I'd hate to see what you all would have done to connie (5 placements) or timj351 (6 placements) if they had posted here. On a site that is supposed to be all about learning, it seems ridiculous to me to vilify our peers because they do well, especially when it's directed at someone who has been so outgoing and so willing to share that knowledge with others. Don't think this went without effect, either... John may well be taking a break from the site because of this.
I hope you've all enjoyed your little witch hunt, because now the rest of the site gets to suffer because of it.
-Terry
</rant mode off>
I couldn't agree more. Well said. |
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