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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Selective color / Desaturation
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 04/18/2005 04:55:06 AM · #1
hey guys. i wanted you all to take a look at my first attempts at selective color / Desaturation. anyone have any tips or tricks to make the process easier. basically what i did in the next 2 pictures is use the sponge tool in photoshop all over the picture except the part i wanted highlighted, however i have heard of an easier process. Anyways, enjoy the pictures, and any advice would be greatly appreacated.

//www.myhizouse.com/post1.jpg
//www.myhizouse.com/post2.jpg
 04/18/2005 05:02:46 AM · #2
It's generally easier to select the area you want to be in color, reverse the selection, and desaturate the rest as a hue/saturation layer mask. Be sure you save the selection so you can reload it as needed.

If you prefer painting-by-hand, create a masking layer and use the paintbrush to paint the area you want to preserve the color in, then make a selection of that and reverse the selection. Then proceed as above.

Using the desaturation sponge as a paintbrush, so to speak, is not a real reversable process, basically. To an extent it is if you do the sponge work on a duplicate layer which you can later discard as needed, but it's still a hit-or-miss process. I usually only use the sponge for small areas of an otherwise finished image that need a tad more (or less) saturation. For me it's a touchup tool.

Robt.


04/18/2005 08:50:12 AM · #3
How often do we look at sel desat pictures and have a first reaction of "Oh my.... part of it is in color and part is in black & white"?

If you are using sel desat to emphasize a subject, it isn't always necessary to take the background all the way to b&w. You can achieve the same effect of directing the viewers attention to your subject by making the background less colorful than the subject while still retaining some color in the bg. Done subtlely this will prevent attention and interest from being drawn to your use of sel desat, and the techniques you have used in acheiving it, and let your subject dominate the image.
04/18/2005 09:18:17 AM · #4
Originally posted by coolhar:
...
If you are using sel desat to emphasize a subject, it isn't always necessary to take the background all the way to b&w. You can achieve the same effect of directing the viewers attention to your subject by making the background less colorful than the subject while still retaining some color in the bg. Done subtlely this will prevent attention and interest from being drawn to your use of sel desat, and the techniques you have used in acheiving it, and let your subject dominate the image.


This is a good suggestion and I find it a more appealing alternative from what we normally see.

Though it can be powerful in limited applications, selective desaturation is a technique with very, very limited value under any conditions. But this is an educational site so we are going to see a lot more of it as a result and we just have to accept that. It is no different than seeing oversaturation, extreme dodge and burn and other techniques being practiced and explored by photographers trying out new ideas and concepts.

Message edited by author 2005-04-18 09:19:02.
 04/18/2005 04:55:03 PM · #5
Preface: Im starting to get tired of people saying that XYZ effect is way overdone...

How often do we look at pictures. for most of us, everyday. so yes, everything appear to be overdone, but what, if i may ask, has not been overdone. there isint anything that anyone has done that hasnt been done before. photography has been around since the 1800's, and someone once before has taken that picture your about to take or tried to make that effect that your working on. the only challenge at this point is to perfect the techniques that will make the picture stand out from the rest of the pictures we look at on a daily basis.
 04/18/2005 05:18:13 PM · #6
I like the sel desat on your girl shot. I prefer the photo of the man with the mohawk, as a BW shot without the red. Good work for your first go at sel desat.

For future editing - it may be better to use this technique to highlight some aspect of the primary subject of your chosen shot. (See example thumbnail, with primary subject in colour)

This shot by laurielblack:
Hope this helps.

[Edit to hide my stoopidity]

Message edited by author 2005-04-19 06:03:28.
 04/18/2005 05:21:58 PM · #7
Thanks =)
 04/18/2005 05:24:44 PM · #8
Just noticed there was a challenge on this:.......

Sel desat Challenge
 04/18/2005 05:32:49 PM · #9
Originally posted by PollyBean:
I like the sel desat on your girl shot. I prefer the photo of the man with the mohawk, as a BW shot without the red. Good work for your first go at sel desat.

For future editing - it may be better to use this technique to highlight some aspect of the primary subject of your chosen shot. (See example thumbnails, with primary subject in colour)

This shot by laurielblack:
Kirbic's Primary peppers:
Hope this helps.


Good advice and your selection of supporting photographs is great.

We all learn by studying the works of others. I've never had the honor of meeting and talking with Laurie who is an amazing photographer, but have with Fritz (kirbic) who also is an amazing photographer. I like the pepper image not so much because it is a good example of desat, but that it is a good example of color change by modifying hue. It is an image that sticks in my head for that.
 04/19/2005 06:02:35 AM · #10
You're right Steve. Kirbics peppers is not selective desaturation, but more an example of colour shift. Sorry about that!
 04/19/2005 09:58:02 AM · #11
Originally posted by Slyy:
Preface: Im starting to get tired of people saying that XYZ effect is way overdone...

How often do we look at pictures. for most of us, everyday. so yes, everything appear to be overdone, but what, if i may ask, has not been overdone. there isint anything that anyone has done that hasnt been done before. photography has been around since the 1800's, and someone once before has taken that picture your about to take or tried to make that effect that your working on. the only challenge at this point is to perfect the techniques that will make the picture stand out from the rest of the pictures we look at on a daily basis.


There is plenty that has not been done and plenty that is coming out now that is very original. Not evrything has been photographed the way we wish to do it. That is the point of trying to be original. I feel much of my work is highly original, and I would be far from content to merely copy someone elses work to try and perfect a technique.
 04/19/2005 12:21:10 PM · #12
Originally posted by nsbca7:
... I feel much of my work is highly original, and I would be far from content to merely copy someone elses work to try and perfect a technique.

I respectfully disagree. You have to learn techniques first before you can move on to apply them to original works. That is the way we learn. You will never go wrong duplicating the great works of others as part of your own education.

To believe you can always apply a new technique in an original and creative way every time you take a picture then you are only setting yourself up to continue making the same old mistakes over and over again.
 04/19/2005 12:54:53 PM · #13
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I respectfully disagree. You have to learn techniques first before you can move on to apply them to original works. That is the way we learn. You will never go wrong duplicating the great works of others as part of your own education.

To believe you can always apply a new technique in an original and creative way every time you take a picture then you are only setting yourself up to continue making the same old mistakes over and over again.


Is that what I said? Besides the last paragraph of what you just wrote makes no sense at all. If your aim is to create something new eveytime (which is not what I said) how can you possibly be making the same mistakes over and over again.

I see nothing wrong with dupicating other peoples work in the process of learning, but to state nothing new could possibly be created, that it has all been done before, as slyy has stated, is simply wrong.
 04/19/2005 01:22:26 PM · #14
Originally posted by nsbca7:
Originally posted by stdavidson:
I respectfully disagree. You have to learn techniques first before you can move on to apply them to original works. That is the way we learn. You will never go wrong duplicating the great works of others as part of your own education.

To believe you can always apply a new technique in an original and creative way every time you take a picture then you are only setting yourself up to continue making the same old mistakes over and over again.


Is that what I said? Besides the last paragraph of what you just wrote makes no sense at all. If your aim is to create something new eveytime (which is not what I said) how can you possibly be making the same mistakes over and over again.

I see nothing wrong with dupicating other peoples work in the process of learning, but to state nothing new could possibly be created, that it has all been done before, as slyy has stated, is simply wrong.


I think Davidson meant that refusing to acknowledge the past (which of course isn't what you meant anyway, as you've explained) is tantamount to reinventing the wheel every time you shoot. In other words, "make the same mistakes others have made before"...

I take your original statement to mean " I would be far from content to merely copy someone elses work to try and perfect a technique; I'd want to take it a step further and see what i can add to it."

Robt.
 04/19/2005 02:49:35 PM · #15
Or, you can just get a canvas, some oils, and a few brushes, and have at it. Maybe that would give you results that were more your own. You would not be doing something that had been done before, at least not intentionally imitating a previous work. You would almost certainly make mistakes that had been made before, but what you learn from them would not be limited by other people's interpretations. Could an artist, or a photographer, guide their own developement without relying on other peoples tastes, techniques, styles, etc.?

Message edited by author 2005-04-19 14:50:30.
 04/19/2005 03:14:32 PM · #16
Originally posted by stdavidson:
(snip)...I've never had the honor of meeting and talking with Laurie who is an amazing photographer, but have with Fritz (kirbic) who also is an amazing photographer. I like the pepper image not so much because it is a good example of desat, but that it is a good example of color change by modifying hue. It is an image that sticks in my head for that.


...awwww thanks Steve...you've made me blush!

I've had countless PM's from folks wanting to know about that shot. It's still one of my personal favorites (mostly because my two youngest boys were not fighting at the time and I have the moment recorded forever) and I have to admit I would have never been able to do it without people here posting tips and tutorials and such on selective desat. It might be an overused technique, and it certainly has limited (effective) uses, but I am one who really loves to see it when used appropriately. I'm a fan of a lot of the "cutesy" stuff that most people here would NEVER admit to liking (Anne Geddes, Kim Anderson, etc.) and when I set out to do my watermelon shot, I wanted it to have that kind of feel, maybe with a bit of Norman Rockwell thrown in. I guess I didn't "copy" anyone verbatim (not that I had seen), but I sure drew a lot from other's work to get the image in my head before I went to shoot. In addition, I practiced the desat technique on several other shots prior to attempting this one.

To me, being able to draw upon other creative minds and ask for help is the key for perfecting any technique. If we all had to live and work in a vaccuum, it would suck. Pun intended. ;o)
 04/19/2005 03:25:10 PM · #17
I'm not trying to hijack the thread, but this pic really fits in with the discussions.

I thought this was one those times where the selective (partial) desat is perfect because of the subject/title/concept of the photo.

04/19/2005 04:44:16 PM · #18
Originally posted by coolhar:
Or, you can just get a canvas, some oils, and a few brushes, and have at it. Maybe that would give you results that were more your own. You would not be doing something that had been done before, at least not intentionally imitating a previous work. You would almost certainly make mistakes that had been made before, but what you learn from them would not be limited by other people's interpretations. Could an artist, or a photographer, guide their own developement without relying on other peoples tastes, techniques, styles, etc.?


Would you advise a budding composer not to play other composers' music?

Robt.
 04/19/2005 05:52:12 PM · #19
Originally posted by bear_music:
Would you advise a budding composer not to play other composers' music?

Robt.

I certainly wouldn't tell him it was a necessary thing to do. And I wouldn't tell him not to listen to it. But that's not really a good paralell. Composers intend for their works to be performed by others. If no one else plays it, the composer probaly has failed. An artist or photographer can succeed if their work is well received by the public even if no one attempts to copy it.

I'll try to state my point more clearly. I think that it is not necessary to study, or imitate, others who have used your chosen media before you in order to be successful in what you want to acheive with that media. That is one way of doing it, but it's not the only way, and not necessarily the best way.

I know that my way of thinking is foreign to yours Robert, but should that be a reason for me to bend it?
04/21/2005 12:24:26 AM · #20
desaturation tends to lose image quality

you should try calculations ;) and chanels and not greyscale or desaturation ;)
04/21/2005 01:59:26 AM · #21
Originally posted by coolhar:
I know that my way of thinking is foreign to yours Robert, but should that be a reason for me to bend it?


Not at all. There's many ways to skin a cat, as the saying goes. "Persuading" you of anything has never been my goal. Discussion has been, and we've accomplished that.

Robt.
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