DPChallenge: A Digital Photography Contest You are not logged in. (log in or register
 

DPChallenge Forums >> Individual Photograph Discussion >> DQ Shot original and submitted for discussion.
Pages:  
Showing posts 1 - 25 of 114, (reverse)
AuthorThread
04/02/2005 02:22:35 AM · #1
This is the shot that I submitted...
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/9906/thumb/162233.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/9906/thumb/162233.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
and this is my original only resized...
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/9906/thumb/162234.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/9906/thumb/162234.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
I don't understand how this is different from this Blue Ribbon Winner...
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/313/thumb/150976.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/313/thumb/150976.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Both shots were cropped to remove unwanted (minor?) elements. Both shots used levels to make them high key. I cloned out some (minor?) elements the blue ribbon did not. What is the difference in the end result?
04/02/2005 02:27:37 AM · #2
Sorry, but I would have voted to DQ as well.

It appears that you not only cloned out major elements of the photo, but actually made the canvas size larger to get the compostion you wanted.....definitely crosses the line into digital art, if only slightly.

I haven't seen an original of the blue winner, but it looks like it was purely done by adjusting levels. No spot editing was done, so even though the end result is similar, you can't compare the two.
04/02/2005 02:28:24 AM · #3
I'll just add (otherwise publicly available) original of the ribbon-winner photo:' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/24642/thumb/154048.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/24642/thumb/154048.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Edit: adding opinion..

If I only saw your submission, it would have not occurred to me to ask for a DQ as it would have been possible to do this withih the realms of even basic edits if you had enough snow around the tombstone. However, seeing what you did, I must agree with SC on this one. You cloned too much.

Message edited by author 2005-04-02 02:32:53.
04/02/2005 02:29:42 AM · #4
I see a huge difference.
We're talking about increasing the brightness to make something whiter against painting half of the image white.
What you cloned out, I don't think is minor.

The original of the Ribbon Winner looked like this:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/24642/thumb/154048.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/24642/thumb/154048.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
04/02/2005 02:32:15 AM · #5
Originally posted by srdanz:

I'll just add (otherwise publicly available) original ribbon-winner photo:' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/24642/thumb/154048.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/24642/thumb/154048.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


This is NOT the original. This is simply the SAME crop as the submission. There were elements in the shot that were cropped out. The texture of the water was removed using levels. I did this also. I simply cloned out some minor elements that were left after level adjustments...
04/02/2005 02:33:44 AM · #6
Originally posted by xion:

I see a huge difference.
We're talking about increasing the brightness to make something whiter against painting half of the image white.
What you cloned out, I don't think is minor.

The original of the Ribbon Winner looked like this:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/24642/thumb/154048.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/24642/thumb/154048.jpg', '/') + 1) . '


I did not 'paint' anything white. After cropping and other adjustments, I simply added a (I'll admit rather large) white border.
04/02/2005 02:35:05 AM · #7
if it makes you feel any better, based on some of the entries in the cemetary challenge, my bet is your shot wouldn't have rendered a ribbon.
no offense...
04/02/2005 02:37:04 AM · #8
Originally posted by TooCool:


I did not 'paint' anything white. After cropping and other adjustments, I simply added a (I'll admit rather large) white border.


A "border" is the same size on all sides. You added to the top and right to reframe your image.

I have no idea if this is against the rules or not, but it is different than simply adding a border.
04/02/2005 02:37:08 AM · #9
So how many threads are we going to have on this issue? I admit it is interesting to compare the two images as they actually serve as good examples of what is and what is not allowed. TooCool, please re-read over all of the answers that have been given to you as I can't see how there can still be the same questions. I mean no offense, it just that this is really getting redundant.

T
04/02/2005 02:38:26 AM · #10
Originally posted by totaldis:

if it makes you feel any better, based on some of the entries in the cemetary challenge, my bet is your shot wouldn't have rendered a ribbon.
no offense...


That is not the point. I did no (IMHO) illegal adjustments on the shot. I used all legal tools. I just feel that I deserved the chance to see the end of scoring and recieving the score that it rightly should have gotten. I know it ain't a ribbon winner. I don't even really like the effect. However, it should have (once again IMHO) stayed in till the end. I thought the voter had the final say...
04/02/2005 02:40:02 AM · #11
I cannot comment on that. I just went to the arngrimur's portfolio and followed his link to what he states is original.

Now, back to yours...
I assume you cropped tightly around the tomb, cloned only a couple of minor areas with melted snow, and then added majorly thick frame.

While it sure looks like you've cloned a whole bunch, I see how you actually did not do that. That said, are there any rules on limits on the size of the border?

I remember seeing in another thread a question on increasing canvas size and its relation to editing rules, but can't remember seeing an answer on that one nor I can find it now in the forums.
04/02/2005 02:40:26 AM · #12
Originally posted by TooCool:

[I thought the voter had the final say...


Why would you think that?

That's not how the site works....the SC interprets and upholds the rules, which most of us agree you didn't abide by.

We don't think you're a bad person or anything.....just that you didn't stay within the editing rules.
04/02/2005 02:41:19 AM · #13
Originally posted by timj351:

So how many threads are we going to have on this issue? I admit it is interesting to compare the two images as they actually serve as good examples of what is and what is not allowed. TooCool, please re-read over all of the answers that have been given to you as I can't see how there can still be the same questions. I mean no offense, it just that this is really getting redundant.

T


I have started three threads on different issues. One on the original question which I have requested be locked as that discussion is finished in my mind. One is simply a site suggestion which I believe all members are allowed to make. This is a thread on the actual photo in question. If you think that any of these threads are redundant, lock them and point to the one which is appropriate...
04/02/2005 02:41:54 AM · #14
Originally posted by TooCool:

I simply cloned out some minor elements that were left after level adjustments...


I think that the problem was that while to you these elements seem minor to a lot of people they seem major.

I also had a question of clarification for sc regarding the rules... is it legal to have a plain single color seamless border around a 100x100 image that makes the image 640X460 for example? because i think that is what arngrimur did in his shot (where he says "Crop This is less than 1/4 of the original image.") I thought something like this was legal since it is viewed as just adding a border but from reading in this thread I get the impression that dramatically increasing canvas size is not legal.
04/02/2005 02:42:35 AM · #15
This is very interesting. I just copied the original and was able to arrive at the same high key using levels alone without any cloning. Now comes the point about canvas increase, possible or maybe white border. But there is no rule about border size. Either way what I did to arrive at the same high key picture fell within the rules IMO and did not violate the "spirit of the rules". I have to side with TooCool on this one.

Message edited by author 2005-04-02 02:43:40.
04/02/2005 02:43:27 AM · #16
Originally posted by TooCool:

Originally posted by totaldis:

if it makes you feel any better, based on some of the entries in the cemetary challenge, my bet is your shot wouldn't have rendered a ribbon.
no offense...


That is not the point. I did no (IMHO) illegal adjustments on the shot. I used all legal tools. I just feel that I deserved the chance to see the end of scoring and recieving the score that it rightly should have gotten. I know it ain't a ribbon winner. I don't even really like the effect. However, it should have (once again IMHO) stayed in till the end. I thought the voter had the final say...


Tools like the clone tool can only be used in specific ways as the challenge rules clearly states. You can't just use them in any manner you want. Please re-read the rules again for more clarification.

T
04/02/2005 02:45:08 AM · #17
Originally posted by SDW65:

This is very interesting. I just copied the original and was able to arrive at the same high key using levels alone without any cloning. Now comes the point about canvas increase, possible or maybe white border. But there is no rule about border size. Either way what I did to arrive at the same high key picture fell within the rules IMO and did not violate the "spirit of the rules". I have to side with TooCool on this one.


But did you recreate his picture exactly (particularly the composition) by making an even border all the way around?

I don't think that would be possible. You'd have to add more to two sides than to the others, and in my mind, that's like painting.
04/02/2005 02:47:47 AM · #18
Originally posted by timj351:

Tools like the clone tool can only be used in specific ways as the challenge rules clearly states. You can't just use them in any manner you want. Please re-read the rules again for more clarification.

T


I have tried very hard to keep this as non confrontational as possible (which is something that is difficult for me. As SC you know I have rifled feathers before.) however I am slightly insulted that after almost 2 years here you would imply that I don't understand the rules or as SC seems to go by the 'spirit' of the rules. After level adjustments I removed minor elements from the shot. The rest were removed by the cropping before any other adjustments were performed.
04/02/2005 02:48:58 AM · #19
Originally posted by sfboatright:


I don't think that would be possible. You'd have to add more to two sides than to the others, and in my mind, that's like painting.


Ok, I am almost 99.9% sure that a border doesnt have to be equal on all sides...
04/02/2005 02:49:56 AM · #20
Originally posted by TooCool:

After level adjustments I removed minor elements from the shot. The rest were removed by the cropping before any other adjustments were performed.


I think that's the point. You used editing techinques to remove major elements from within the final composition.

Whatever those techniques were, in whatever order they were, doesn't matter. It breaks the "spirit of the rules."
04/02/2005 02:51:12 AM · #21
Originally posted by sfboatright:

But did you recreate his picture exactly (particularly the composition) by making an even border all the way around?

I don't think that would be possible. You'd have to add more to two sides than to the others, and in my mind, that's like painting.


There is no rule that states that any border must be even on all sides, otherwise this shot by BradP:
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/264/thumb/116340.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/264/thumb/116340.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
would have been disqualified as it is not symetrical and also crosses the shot itself...
04/02/2005 02:52:10 AM · #22
Originally posted by sfboatright:

Originally posted by TooCool:

After level adjustments I removed minor elements from the shot. The rest were removed by the cropping before any other adjustments were performed.


I think that's the point. You used editing techinques to remove major elements from within the final composition.

Whatever those techniques were, in whatever order they were, doesn't matter. It breaks the "spirit of the rules."


Im still waiting to here from a sc member on the size of border question i had a few posts up but cropping is imo not illegal and should be very much encouraged!
04/02/2005 02:52:38 AM · #23
Originally posted by sfboatright:

Originally posted by SDW65:

This is very interesting. I just copied the original and was able to arrive at the same high key using levels alone without any cloning. Now comes the point about canvas increase, possible or maybe white border. But there is no rule about border size. Either way what I did to arrive at the same high key picture fell within the rules IMO and did not violate the "spirit of the rules". I have to side with TooCool on this one.


But did you recreate his picture exactly (particularly the composition) by making an even border all the way around?

I don't think that would be possible. You'd have to add more to two sides than to the others, and in my mind, that's like painting.


No I did not try the border or canvas resize but I don't see anything in the rules about that unless I am overlooking it. Some may say increasing the canvas size to get the composition you desire is illegal but then would cropping to get the desired composition be illegal as well? The only difference is one is adding and the other is removing pixels. And both are discussed in the rules, where do we draw the line. I have see entries cropped far more than was added to this picture. Thus removing a larger amount of pixels than this one added. ????????
All I have to say is the SC does the best they can do and TooCool sorry about your DQ. I would of voted to not DQ it.
04/02/2005 02:53:44 AM · #24
Originally posted by sfboatright:

I think that's the point. You used editing techinques to remove major elements from within the final composition.


What major elements were removed outside of cropping?
04/02/2005 02:55:23 AM · #25
I would definitely be against expanding the border to change the composition, because in order to do that, you have to decide on a fill color, which is simply another way of painting on your image. This is VERY different from cropping.
Pages:  
Current Server Time: 12/06/2019 03:57:43 AM

Please log in or register to post to the forums.


Home - Challenges - Community - League - Photos - Cameras - Lenses - Learn - Prints! - Help - Terms of Use - Privacy - Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2019 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Proudly hosted by Sargasso Networks. Current Server Time: 12/06/2019 03:57:43 AM EST.