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09/09/2002 04:57:15 PM · #76
This is sure an interesting thread. Every week there seems to be somebody complaining that people didn't vote high enough on their photos because they didn't understand or appreciate the photo. BigSmiles, you said that the voting here is erratic? Well, of course it is when you consider how diverse this crowd is. we all have very different ideas and appreciations, but that is the very thing that makes this site so great and at the same time so challenging. That's why I keep coming back for more. It's easy to show our photos to our friends and get very possitive reactions because they are not usually that different from us, at least compared to the group here, and they normally want to be polite. That method really is not that good of a gauge to tell if a photo will do well in these challenges. The bottom line is that people like what they like and they only know what they know. I can't think of a better method of determining a winning photo then the methods used on this site. If the majority of people like a certain thing, then maybe, just maybe, there is something to it. Ya think?

T
09/09/2002 05:00:32 PM · #77
BTW, BigSmiles. Please don't give up here, just try to understand this site. I think your work is very good and I look forward to seeing what you submit next.

T
09/09/2002 05:06:08 PM · #78
TimJ - very well said. I agree entirely. this place is fun because you can get a real broad view point. I have been going back through and studying old challenges and it is very interesting what people think are good pictures and why. also, there is something to be said for just the creation process independent of the award of getting a high score. is the point to do something that you are proud of and that you worked at or is it to get the highest score? Also, it is funny in my couple weeks of voting it always appears that the top 5 photos are easy to spot. after that it becomes very hard. anyway, I wouldn't give up BigSmiles.
09/09/2002 06:27:28 PM · #79
That's very sweet of you guys :) Thanks. I think as much as I keep complaining I"ll still submit to this site because it gives me the opportunity to do some photography outside of school. Gives me the chance to explore some of the more creative aspects of things.

I really hope I get more comments on my picture for one, and that people will appreciate the effort I put in to almost all my images (cuz I admit to slacking on a few.. shhhh dont tell! :) Oh and I would also like to have another picture rate above 5.99
09/09/2002 06:49:06 PM · #80
Hey big smiles, hang in there!! Trust me, I've gone through my share of frustrations, but after all, I realize that I have learnt a great deal from DPC challenges! I guess that's the bottom-line, this is really a great learning experience. I don't know of any other source where I get a broad base of people to assess my photography every week (!!!). Also, it tests my creativity all the time (maybe not my forte). For example, still-life stuff - this is clearly a weakness of mine, so I spend time looking at those who know it better and just keep on learning.

Last but not least, it's fun to have a little competitive spirit, although the results are not always what we want!

Good luck on the next one!

Keep smiling
Jakob
09/09/2002 09:27:18 PM · #81


Originally posted by chakkobbo:
Hey big smiles, hang in there!! Trust me, I've gone through my share of frustrations, but after all, I realize that I have learnt a great deal from DPC challenges! I guess that's the bottom-line, this is really a great learning experience. I don't know of any other source where I get a broad base of people to assess my photography every week (!!!). Also, it tests my creativity all the time (maybe not my forte). For example, still-life stuff - this is clearly a weakness of mine, so I spend time looking at those who know it better and just keep on learning.

Last but not least, it's fun to have a little competitive spirit, although the results are not always what we want!

Good luck on the next one!

Keep smiling
Jakob


09/09/2002 09:35:13 PM · #82
Hey BigSmiles, one thing you MUST learn in this site (and trust me on this) is how to not take every criticism at heart. Some people here are too narrow minded to look at images as a whole, they love to dissect instead of admire. Also remember that we are not beign judged by a panel of experts, so block out the naysayers and shoot away my friend.
09/09/2002 09:40:18 PM · #83
I totally disagree with this. I think everyone just admires very different things.

Originally posted by Guillermo:
Hey BigSmiles, one thing you MUST learn in this site (and trust me on this) is how to not take every criticism at heart. Some people here are too narrow minded to look at images as a whole, they love to dissect instead of admire. Also remember that we are not beign judged by a panel of experts, so block out the naysayers and shoot away my friend.


09/09/2002 09:55:34 PM · #84
I have no complaints at the voting except a major one. If there is a picture that is submitted that is above average and gets a 1 or 2 there is where I have a hard time figuring out whether it's contempt or a complete idiot voting. It happens here time after time, I can see disagreement for a picture above average in where it should be in the voting for that is of taste, disliking, points of view, philosophy, religion or whatever. There is no excuse for an above average picture to receive a 1or 2 for any reason. Save some of that competitiveness for the contests. I think that we are starting the 11th just a little early for you see we are proud to be Americans just like others are proud for their homes and countries.
09/09/2002 10:01:23 PM · #85
I totally agree with your statement. As everyone is different we admire a photograph in different ways. On the other hand when someone tells your that a small green leaf in the lower left hand corner of your shot bring the subject out of focus then admiring turns to dissecting.

Maybe it is the way in which the comments are written that makes them sound harsher than what they intend to be.

Originally posted by Zeissman:
I totally disagree with this. I think everyone just admires very different things.

Originally posted by Guillermo:
[i]Hey BigSmiles, one thing you MUST learn in this site (and trust me on this) is how to not take every criticism at heart. Some people here are too narrow minded to look at images as a whole, they love to dissect instead of admire. Also remember that we are not beign judged by a panel of experts, so block out the naysayers and shoot away my friend.



[/i]

09/10/2002 12:07:25 AM · #86
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
That's very sweet of you guys :) Thanks. I think as much as I keep complaining I"ll still submit to this site because it gives me the opportunity to do some photography outside of school. Gives me the chance to explore some of the more creative aspects of things.

I really hope I get more comments on my picture for one, and that people will appreciate the effort I put in to almost all my images (cuz I admit to slacking on a few.. shhhh dont tell! :) Oh and I would also like to have another picture rate above 5.99


I'd like ONE photo above 5.99...but seriously, this is a great learning site because it's voluntary (at least we volunteer to be assigned a topic) -- I've always had a hard time where I "had" to do something...and because you have an equal chance to share your skills, ideas, and esthetics.
09/10/2002 01:21:34 AM · #87
Originally posted by bobgaither:
... There is no excuse for an above average picture to receive a 1or 2 for any reason...

I have to disagree. We all vote our opinions. Just because the majority of people feel a picture is good, that doesn't mean everyone will.

The same goes for the other end of the scale. Just because the majority of people dislike a shot, that doesn't mean everyone will.

If we all had the same opinion of every photo, what would be the point of the challenge?

Mark
09/10/2002 08:53:51 PM · #88
So what you are saying that there in no one deliberately voting down a picture? It is not what a majority of us feel a picture should be it is the idiot that knows what they are doing. I mean you don't have to be school in art or be proficient in photography to see. This is more than taste or what someone views as an image.
09/10/2002 09:11:21 PM · #89
I agree that it is ridiculous to see a 1 or 2 vote on an outstanding photo. I really don't see it even for mediocre photos when they meet the challenge and don't have any real technical flaws. I would love to learn the motivation of anyone who can't appreciate any of the work put out by our fellow members.
09/10/2002 10:05:54 PM · #90
This is interesting, because I will leave a comment like that, and still give the photo a 6,7, or 8. It try to let the final placement tell the photographer how good it was.

I guess it all depends on what you are trying to get for the this site: apprecaition, learning, sharing, or perhaps some confidence.


Originally posted by Guillermo:
I totally agree with your statement. As everyone is different we admire a photograph in different ways. On the other hand when someone tells your that a small green leaf in the lower left hand corner of your shot bring the subject out of focus then admiring turns to dissecting.

Maybe it is the way in which the comments are written that makes them sound harsher than what they intend to be.








[/i]




* This message has been edited by the author on 9/10/2002 11:03:28 PM.
09/11/2002 12:36:08 AM · #91
bobgaither...shortredneck...

All I'm saying is that you can't assume everyone is rational in how they vote, and that they all vote on technical merit. The majority of people might...but there are people who are going to look at a picture of a banana and say, "I don't like bananas" and give it a 1. So you get the top rated pic of the week with a few really low votes.

The other issue is that you're always going to have a few people who think they understand technical merit when they're really idiots. They vote based on their interpretation, which may be grossly wrong.

Sure, there may be a few people intentionally voting down pics but 1 vote in 300 just doesnt affect the scores that much and if they vote down everyone, their votes aren't counted.

So... all I'm saying is that it's no surprise at all to see crappy photos get a few 9s and 10s, and to see great photos get a few 1s and 2s. Not everyone votes by the same standards. That may not be "right" but anyone can vote by any standard they see fit.

Mark
09/11/2002 10:21:29 AM · #92
No that is wrong. I had a picture that became 9th or 10th I forget which but if them ones or twos had voted just a 3 I would have been first place. Now I don't know about the pictures above me for I didn't figure that out but if someone tells me it don't make a difference then I just go berserk. I stopped figuring after that for I don't need to know anymore. So anymore I will try hard if I think I can make the top ten if not I submit something I like or just to see what kind of reaction it will get. You know when you have a good picture to submit and it is hard for me to find that kind of picture in a week the way I like to take pictures.

Bob
09/11/2002 11:32:32 AM · #93
Originally posted by bobgaither:
No that is wrong. I had a picture that became 9th or 10th I forget which but if them ones or twos had voted just a 3 I would have been first place. Now I don't know about the pictures above me for I didn't figure that out but if someone tells me it don't make a difference then I just go berserk. I stopped figuring after that for I don't need to know anymore. So anymore I will try hard if I think I can make the top ten if not I submit something I like or just to see what kind of reaction it will get. You know when you have a good picture to submit and it is hard for me to find that kind of picture in a week the way I like to take pictures.

Bob


ok, Bob. You're right. I'll shut up. The point is, there are no qualifications to vote here so you'll always get oddball votes. If you can't deal with that, I'll guess you'll be beserk. Oddly enough, you're not complaining about the photos that finish in the botom ten but still get votes of 9s and 10s. ;)

Mark
09/11/2002 12:52:55 PM · #94
Originally posted by bobgaither:
No that is wrong. I had a picture that became 9th or 10th I forget which but if them ones or twos had voted just a 3 I would have been first place. ...but if someone tells me it don't make a difference then I just go berserk ... Bob

I really don't want you to go "berserk", but people really need to know how the math here works...

your entry Automobiles came in 10th, but had no 1s or 2s

your entry Hold Tight came in 9th with no 1s but four 2s --- if those 2s were changed to 3s, your score would change from 6.429 to 6.447, and your 9th place would remain 9th place

your entry Swimming Hole came in 5th, with one 1 and two 2s --- if those three were changed to 3s, your score would change from 6.595 to 6.611, and your 5th place would remain 5th place

i'm sorry, but that's the way it is --- a few wild votes have almost no effect on the outcome
09/11/2002 02:38:45 PM · #95
Wow...I am new here...is this type of thing the norm?

Andy...An Earthling.
09/11/2002 03:09:41 PM · #96
Originally posted by rundog:
Wow...I am new here...is this type of thing the norm?

Andy...An Earthling.


Hey Andy...welcome to this. I haven't read the forums for about 2 weeks now...on purpose. If you're going to read the "rant" section...I suppose this is what it's for. So it's living up to it's title. My advice is to browse the other great sections of this site...the tutorials, links to websites and such. Good luck in the challenges. :)
09/11/2002 05:12:21 PM · #97
Like I said I quit looking but you are right spiderman none of them would make a bit of difference. I know there was one or have my eyes deceived me. Your going to make me look through all them aren't you. I saw those three and those are not it unless there is someone with a magic wand did you happen to calculate them? I'll get the private eye on that right away.
09/11/2002 05:46:55 PM · #98
Originally posted by spiderman:
Originally posted by bobgaither:
[i]No that is wrong. I had a picture that became 9th or 10th I forget which but if them ones or twos had voted just a 3 I would have been first place. ...but if someone tells me it don't make a difference then I just go berserk ... Bob


your entry Hold Tight came in 9th with no 1s but four 2s --- if those 2s were changed to 3s, your score would change from 6.429 to 6.447, and your 9th place would remain 9th place

i'm sorry, but that's the way it is --- a few wild votes have almost no effect on the outcome
[/i]

Well the private eye says apologize. I am sorry I am the idiot. It was on "hold tight" and it was the twos and threes needed to be four. I needed 12 people in order to change the voting from 9th to 1st. It has been so long ago that I forgot. I am glad I got you younger people to keep me in order.

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/11/2002 5:46:37 PM.
09/11/2002 06:06:37 PM · #99
Originally posted by bobgaither:
Well the private eye says apologize. I am sorry I am the idiot ... I am glad I got you younger people to keep me in order.

no need to apologize - i too have gone over the edge trying to figure out how ANY of my entries could've scored a "1" - let alone a "10" - but they ALL (all eleven of 'em) have --- so rather than think myself crazy, i chalk those up to some other crazy old coots --- then i can sleep the sleep of the just :)
09/11/2002 06:58:58 PM · #100
door
Sorry couldn't remember the long name for the photograph.
Take a look at this picture for it is a good example that would have changed his position in the standing. I am not picking on the photographer because I voted it a 6. That is a range of scores and the ones and twos changed would have made a different. And I do understand why the wide range of scores. You liked it or hated it, might have been concept?
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