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Showing posts 26 - 50 of 140, (reverse)
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09/09/2002 12:16:32 PM · #26
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
I said generally they dont. :P

Technical flaws take away from the image as a whole.



Well, I won't get into debate here. But my only suggestion if you are going to survive here emotionally..at DP Challenge..is learn the preferences here..at DP Challenge.. and cater to them IF (the key word) you care about the scoring here.

I am with John Setzler on this...we had a discussion along these lines a while back. A photographers aims may change from a competition site like this to even another competition site or wherever.

Coming here and complaining about the way things are here probably won't change things much..too many new people come here every week. Many photographers I know would not even submit to a site like this becaseu they don't believe art is about competition.

Me? As I said..I'm in advertising...art and competition/critiqueing whatever is common place with me every day so its no big deal what happens at DP Challenge..its very similar to an editorial meeting I have every monday afternoon now :-/
09/09/2002 12:34:31 PM · #27
In terms of the "American bashing", it's not about stereotyping people at all. The situation is a power balance thing. Since the majority of submitters and voters (by an overwhelming amount) are American, it means that non-Americans have to work out what all the American images mean, which are sometimes very obscure, however American voters are in their comfort zone and surrounded by their own culture so they don't feel compelled to find out what the minority of non-American photos mean.

It's the same as the kind of situation that gets people into "white male bashing" arguments. They start as an issue of power and get warped into an issue of race/gender, often by the white males themselves who just don't understand why they're under attack :). So, rather than getting defensive about it, try to understand it and realise it's not a personal attack against you, it's just the fact of the way the power is distributed on this site.
09/09/2002 12:40:02 PM · #28
Canadian culture and American culture is so similar in most cases that we (canadians) feel comfortable in a majority of north americans.

So why isn't there any Canada bashing? Not that I want there to be any, but everyone is so hostile towards the US...
09/09/2002 12:56:14 PM · #29
Because the US steps up to the plate and gets critisized, and other times don't step up to the plate and gets critisized. Goes with the territory.

My beef is politics should not be used as an excuse for getting poor votes.

If someone doesn't "get" something it may have nothing to do with their upbringing. And if a photo scores low, it may not be because someone doesn't "get" it. Just may not be appealing to them is all.




* This message has been edited by the author on 9/9/2002 12:56:32 PM.
09/09/2002 12:56:46 PM · #30
Originally posted by lisae:
In terms of the "American bashing", it's not about stereotyping people at all. The situation is a power balance thing. Since the majority of submitters and voters (by an overwhelming amount) are American, it means that non-Americans have to work out what all the American images mean, which are sometimes very obscure, however American voters are in their comfort zone and surrounded by their own culture so they don't feel compelled to find out what the minority of non-American photos mean.

It's the same as the kind of situation that gets people into "white male bashing" arguments. They start as an issue of power and get warped into an issue of race/gender, often by the white males themselves who just don't understand why they're under attack :). So, rather than getting defensive about it, try to understand it and realise it's not a personal attack against you, it's just the fact of the way the power is distributed on this site.


I think that has a VERY small part of it.

The winner this week was from around Russia..(Ukraine? correct). I don't think for one minute that photographer thought bout doing anything other than takin a beautiful photo.

Arnit, Remie..are 2 other incredibly talented and successful photographers here and they are from the Netherlands area of the world.

I think this power stuff is a major cop out.

Not saying cultural difference don't play a role in influencing people..Got to New York, London or Paris and see the melting pot happening.

But you know ..America has just too diverse a culture from state to state to say its an "American" thing.

I think other folks in other countries pay too much attention to the media portrayals.
09/09/2002 12:58:08 PM · #31
Originally posted by BigSmiles:
Canadian culture and American culture is so similar in most cases that we (canadians) feel comfortable in a majority of north americans.

So why isn't there any Canada bashing? Not that I want there to be any, but everyone is so hostile towards the US...



You mean you're not a state yet? ;-)

-Terry ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

09/09/2002 12:58:25 PM · #32
Originally posted by hokie:
[iI think other folks in other countries pay too much attention to the media portrayals.[/i]

I don't even buy into our own media portrayls... lol


09/09/2002 01:01:24 PM · #33
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I don't even buy into our own media portrayls... lol


Smart man!!!

The media doesn't buy into the media portrayals either!!! The media plays the public and shoots for the middle.

You should buy into what you experience face to face...and that takes time and just living. The rest is just supposition.
09/09/2002 01:03:05 PM · #34
There's always something universal about photos that do brilliantly, no matter who takes them, that's not what I was talking about. The complaints are always over the ones that score a bit lower in the heap, that are a bit more obscure. It's those ones that divide the voters, where cultural differences can come into play. And what I'm saying is that when you're confronted with a large number of photos that you don't understand based on cultural differences, you're going to be easier on them than people who only find a few each week that they don't understand.

The kinds of things I'm talking about are monuments, icons, religious themes, historic references, puns on place names, that kind of thing. Is it wrong to use those things in your photography? NO! But if you use American versions of those themes, you will be understood by more voters than if you use non-American ones, simply because of the user base here.

To point that out is not "American bashing", but somehow it seems to lead to it.
09/09/2002 01:03:57 PM · #35
09/09/2002 01:22:30 PM · #36
I am glad I live in the United States but I am just a another human being.

I can relate to what Karen is feeling sometimes when people think they know you just because you have USA stamped on your passport. Its like other stereotype behaviour and there is one hot button that just freaks me out is the stereotype button.

Anyway..I think the folks that hang out here at DP Challenge are far from being the kind of dunderheads that inhabit the rest of the world on average.

I think when we talk about trying to be open minded to the photographers here (and I have been guilty of this myself) we may be preaching to the choir.

We may disagree at times but on the whole I think we may be more liek each other here than we could imagine. :-)

09/09/2002 01:28:17 PM · #37
AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhh.

Thank you, I feel much better now.

I just don't get it (prolly cause i am an american), but a picture from the ukraine wins, and we have a thread about not understanding other cultures????????? We don't even have passenger trains were I live (except for the touristy things), I have never been on a passenger train as a mode of transportation, and most old women here don't wear scarves like that on their heads. Yet I gave the picture a 10. (Oh yea, I've been to Russia, and it looked familiar.

Maybe, just maybe, some of the pictures that aren't "understood" are understood because they are vague, or don't have a certain appeal to a general audience (which the internet is), not necessarily because the voters are uncultured. There have been many pics that i "did not get" that were taken here in the US of A. And there have been pics of other cultures (the religious statue in children, for one) that I understood perfectly, despite the cultural differences. Most Americans on a site like this, especially the regular users, I suspect are a lot like me. We recognize the different cultural overtones of other nations. In my travels abroad (limited though they might be), it has been my experience that no one country is more "cultured" than any other. All countries' citizens are "comfortable" in their own culture. I think that is human nature.

As far as DPC is concerned, it does happen to be in America, so most of the users seem to be American, at least for now. If I were to join a site in say, China, I too would expect that i would be in the vast minority, and may not understand a lot of what goes on. I could do one of two things: change my approach to fit, or take my chances. The same is true here.

I am going to post this now, but I will probably regret it later.

09/09/2002 01:35:24 PM · #38
Did anyone say Americans were less "cultured"?

I have had friends from America, the UK, Europe, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Korea, China, Japan, New Zealand, Taiwan... probably many more places in the world. Imagine this scenario - a white Australian (me) and a guy from Taiwan (my friend Billybob) meet each other by chance. Billybob says "Wazzuuuuuuuuuuuuuh!!!!" and high fives me!

This is what the world is like. American pop culture is pervasive. It is one of your biggest exports. It is known everywhere. No one else's pop culture is like that in the world. If I walk into a video shop here, there are aisles and aisles of Hollywood movies, all sorted into genres like comedy, horror, action, drama, etc. Then at the back there is an aisle marked "foreign". This despite the fact that all those Hollywood movies are foreign.

Another example - if I took a photo of my Prime Minister you would see a short, bald man with glasses and gigantic eyebrows. If you posted a photo of your president I would recognise him immediately, hundreds of his soundbites would flood my mind, issues to do with terrorism, economics, etc. would be raised.

This is a fact of life. The rest of the world has an opinion of you that you have created for us, and you in turn resent us for it. You really can't have it both ways.
09/09/2002 01:41:47 PM · #39
Agreed. (with Karma)

I have done photos that my husband just shrugs. He is from Jamaica, so he is a good sounding board for me. Alot of times he tells me the subject isn't broad enough for others to understand. Other times, he just shrugs because it's a metza photo and will not make an impact even if it *is* understood.

Agh.

I've gone on too much about this...

It's just that it is difficult to make a clear, concise point in a forum without generalizing again.

I'll stop now. I think, according to Hokie's post, that I have made my point.

Yes, Hokie. We are all photog's and more similar than most would expect.
;-)


* This message has been edited by the author on 9/9/2002 1:41:16 PM.
09/09/2002 01:42:56 PM · #40
Originally posted by lisae:


This is a fact of life. The rest of the world has an opinion of you that you have created for us, and you in turn resent us for it. You really can't have it both ways.


I admit it!! I was the one who posted all those ads all over the world!

I was the winnning vote for George Bush!! Muhahahha

I was the one who came up with the Wuzzzzzuuuupppp!! saying.

High fives ..Umm hehe..me too ;-)

McDonalds..My idea.

French Fries..well..that was my neighbor..but I helped him polish the idea.

Seriously, though...I (meaning Me..Scott Hudson) don't want it both ways..Cause it ain't my way to start with.

This is that stereotype thing I was talking about earlier...Please stop...please....
09/09/2002 01:44:23 PM · #41
Originally posted by lisae:
This is a fact of life. The rest of the world has an opinion of you that you have created for us, and you in turn resent us for it. You really can't have it both ways.


Yet, they are buying it, and then blaming us. Whatever.


09/09/2002 01:49:20 PM · #42
Maybe we need to have the country of origin placed along side the submitted photos so we will know who to mark up for not being American.

09/09/2002 01:55:45 PM · #43
Originally posted by hokie:

This is that stereotype thing I was talking about earlier...Please stop...please....


Can you please actually tell me where I generalised about all Americans having certain attributes simply because they're American, or anywhere that I said I didn't like those attributes? I'm dying here!!!!
09/09/2002 02:00:04 PM · #44
I can't understand why if I point out certain facts they're taken as criticisms and cause people to get defensive. Am I supposed to pretend America isn't the most powerful nation on earth, and that it doesn't effect anything at all in my life or anyone else's in ways that my own country and culture will never effect the average American's? Or that these facts don't have any bearing at all on the way photos are rated on this site?
09/09/2002 02:00:10 PM · #45
Originally posted by darylbrown:
Maybe we need to have the country of origin placed along side the submitted photos so we will know who to mark up for not being American.




Thar ya go, daryl!!!!!!

Less-cultured was my read-in to what was being said about how Americans vote down what they don't understand. I was using it in the sense of having less knowledge of other cultures (which I don't believe is true). Yes, many overseas have bought into the pop-culture of America, but that is not the culture of all. Lisae, you may greet your friends with high-fives and "whassup" but most of us here simply do not on a daily basis. The pop-culture that most people experience is actually the MTV/Hollywood-culture type of thing, and that simply is not most Americans.

I will end now, cause i have over 200 pics to vote on. (karmat has closed the forums and will NOT post anymore to this fire -- it is burning well enough by itself. Contrary to how it may sound, I do have a lot of respect for other cultures, and enjoying traveling to other countries to experience it rather than just read about it. I just get upset when someone pigeon-holes me, or holds a stereotype that i get placed in by default, and it is not true.)

09/09/2002 02:02:57 PM · #46
Originally posted by lisae:

Can you please actually tell me where I generalised about all Americans having certain attributes simply because they're American, or anywhere that I said I didn't like those attributes? I'm dying here!!!!



...."This is a fact of life. The rest of the world has an opinion of you that you have created for us, and you in turn resent us for it. You really can't have it both ways.".........

If the rest of the world is pissed off that they got to listen to Britney Spears or eat a McDonalds burger or listen to one more moron say..'Wuzzzuuuupp!!!"...Well....like Bruce Willis says in Diehard "Welcome to the party pal"..cause I don't like it none neither!

And we gotta claim George Bush so I think we got more than enough pay back >:-/
09/09/2002 02:06:24 PM · #47
Nowhere did I say that we were pissed off about it. I think that's where you're reading hostility into this that isn't there.

My friend Billybob and I piss ourselves laughing when we say to each other "talk to the hand, girlfriend!" etc. We take what we like from your culture unashamedly and ignore the rest. We mix it with our culture. "The Simpsons" are not as popular anywhere else in the world as they are in Australia. People my age communicate in Simpsons quotes, even more than the Americans I know who are my age online.

There hasn't been any hostility in anything I've said, no attacks, nothing. Just facts.
09/09/2002 02:07:56 PM · #48
Mmmmmmmm.... Beeeeeeerrrrr....
09/09/2002 02:08:54 PM · #49
Originally posted by lisae:
Did anyone say Americans were less "cultured"?
...The rest of the world has an opinion of you that you have created for us, and you in turn resent us for it. You really can't have it both ways.


Please remember this opinion was created for us by money- and power-crazed plutocrats (= rich white men) and is in no way truly represenative of the lives of ordinary people, be they from the Blue Ridge Mountains or New York. I do not resent you for having that opinion -- I resent AOL/Time/Warner and Rupert Murdoch (Australian, right?) for placing profit above truth.

It is estimated that there are more than 10 million malnourished children in the US! Yet we spend a billion dollars on a single warplane. I don't believe we are in any position to be preaching anything to the world, except a belief in the freedom and equality espoused in our founding documents, but which are being gutted mercilessly by our sham government and the "military-industrial complex" which has controlled our country for the last half-century or so.

You make me wish I'd submitted my original entry choice -- I'm curious as to how many non-US residents would catch the reference in the title.
09/09/2002 02:12:25 PM · #50
*Sings one of her favourite songs*

"Southern trees bear strange fruit,
Blood on the leaves, and blood at the root,
Black bodies swingin' from the Southern trees,
Strange fruit hangin' from the poplar trees"

Etc.
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