I can't Dodge and Burn - DPChallenge Forums

Sigma 105mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro for Canon

03/25/2005 10:04:13 AM · #1

Well I finally got a good photo to try to practice my dodging and burning techniques on it. I realize --- I'm not very good. I'll post the original and my fairly quick edit. How would you do on this? Just so I can see the *real* way people do it.

Original

My Edit

Thanks,
Lee

coolhar

Canon PowerShot Pro 90 IS

03/25/2005 10:09:42 AM · #2

Some would say the real way is not to do it. Others would say that if the viewer can tell you've done it, you've done it too much.

KaDi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

03/25/2005 10:38:12 AM · #3

It all depends on what you're trying to achieve. I took a swipe at it. The image has my notes on what I did in the details box.

KaDi

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

03/25/2005 01:02:52 PM · #4

Sorry, Lee, it looks like I killed it.

03/25/2005 01:09:59 PM · #5

The idea is to start off doing the buring of the sky in small increments but sweep the whole image for shadows only this will darken the brush then sweep over the clouds in a randaom fasion for highlights olny go a little higher. Your weeds shouldnt be affected at this point. Ck out my port. For some examples of this. :)

03/25/2005 01:12:19 PM · #6

I would agree that if its obvious than you failed.

03/25/2005 01:14:38 PM · #7

The best photos to try this on are black and whites that have alot of whites and blacks. A man in a white shirt and black coat with light hair in front of a dark background. In my opinion your photo is not the greatest to practice on.

Message edited by author 2005-03-25 13:15:10.

03/25/2005 01:32:41 PM · #8

Here's a quick take...

I did no traditional dodge or burn. I just did curves adjustment and hue/saturation. I did mask a bit using quick mask mode (PS CS) but most of the effect is straight curves on the entire photo.
I found that after curves were applied I had to reduce saturation quite a bit, especially on the blue channel.

sfboatright

Canon EOS-20D

03/25/2005 01:38:56 PM · #9

Originally posted by timmotyka:

I would agree that if its obvious than you failed.

I first read that as "I would agree that it's obvious that you failed." hahaha......I was like....wow, man...that's brutal....

03/25/2005 01:50:24 PM · #10

Subtle is the way to perfection but what the hell do I know...LOL

03/25/2005 02:17:02 PM · #11

Dodging and Burning Tutorial

DanSig

03/25/2005 02:43:23 PM · #12

after taking a few seminars and completing a few tutorials and books about photoshop I have learned one very important thing.. dodging and burning is only for those that don´t know what photoshop is capable of.. I NEVER use dodge/burn, I get the effect I want using other methods in photoshop.. some are more complex and take more time, but the result is by far better then dodging and burning.

concider yourself lucky that you can´t dodge/burn and read a few tutorials on how photoshop works and what it is capable of, the photoshop bible is a good place to start :) and never use dodge/burn if you plan on mastering photoshop.

bledford

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

03/25/2005 02:51:22 PM · #13

Originally posted by DanSig:

That's a pretty myopic view of something as tried and true as dodge and burn. Tell me how exactly, using photoshop without using dodge and burn (or selective curves or levels adjustments, which are basically the same), one might do the following: modify a portrait of a person in which you want his or her teeth to be whiter without affecting other yellow-white areas in the image.

Olympus 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO M.Zuiko

03/25/2005 02:55:06 PM · #14

Originally posted by DanSig:

um...interesting opinion. I agree there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat in photoshop. Shockingly, I'm well-versed in many (not all) tools in PS CS, and I still use dodge and burn very effectively and efficiently. Many times it's simply not appropriate to apply effects to an entire image, which is where D/B excels. Masking is an option, but far less efficient.

So while D/B may not be the only way to do things...they are a very good tool in many instances.

By the way, you're kidding yourself if you think that learning how to dodge and burn will limit your ability to learn other things in PS. If you don't want to take the time to learn them, that's your perogative. That's like saying that learning how to change my own oil will limit my ability to drive my car. I don't have to learn it, but how will it hurt me if I do?

Regards,

Pedro

DanSig

03/25/2005 02:59:28 PM · #15

Originally posted by bledford:

Originally posted by DanSig:
after taking a few seminars and completing a few tutorials and books about photoshop I have learned one very important thing.. dodging and burning is only for those that don´t know what photoshop is capable of.. I NEVER use dodge/burn, I get the effect I want using other methods in photoshop.. some are more complex and take more time, but the result is by far better then dodging and burning.

concider yourself lucky that you can´t dodge/burn and read a few tutorials on how photoshop works and what it is capable of, the photoshop bible is a good place to start :) and never use dodge/burn if you plan on mastering photoshop.

That's a pretty myopic view of something as tried and true as dodge and burn. Tell me how exactly, using photoshop without using dodge and burn (or selective curves or levels adjustments, which are basically the same), one might do the following: modify a portrait of a person in which you want his or her teeth to be whiter without affecting other yellow-white areas in the image.

curves and levels are not the same as dodge/burn, dodge desaturates the selected area and adds to the brightness, burn does the opposite, using layer masks, adjustment layers and other options in photoshop gives a lot better result then dodge/burn, and people that are just begining to use dodge/burn usually have the brush to hard and small so were the burnt area ends you can see the outline of the brush.. that is not a problem when using layers :)

Brad

Olympus OM-D E-M1

03/25/2005 03:05:14 PM · #16

This was a tough one to do. Once over exposed, it's kinda' a goner.

(no burning/dodging done either)

03/25/2005 03:06:15 PM · #17

Originally posted by DanSig:

you are correct. Dodging and Burning incorrectly is not a wise option.

03/25/2005 03:10:20 PM · #18

Originally posted by DanSig:

I agree that unintentional contrast loss and desaturation are definitely possible (unwanted) side effects of dodge/burn. When I need to dodge or burn an area, I usually jump in to Quick Mask mode, paint the target area with a very soft brush at reduced opacity until I have the inverse of the mask I want, then exit Quick Mask mode, invert the selection and adjust with curves.
The results with this method are nearly always superior to using the dodge/burn tools, IMO.
For more sophistication, you can duplicate the base layer, adjust curves on the duplicate using an adjustment layer, and mask all areas excep the target areas. This sounds like a lot of work, but it isn't necessarily so. You now have the flexibility to...
1.) Adjust the opacity of the duplicate layer to vary the efect
2.) Adjust the color balance of the didged/burned areas using the curves adjustment layer
3.) Retouch the mask to adjust where/how much dodge or burn takes place
I don't often go to the extent of using the second technique, usually a quick touch-up is all I am after. "Da burninator" I am not, LOL.

03/25/2005 03:21:05 PM · #19

i don't disgree with Fritz' comment at all. when there are specific defined areas you're working on. However in the image above, the effect would simply not be feasible without D/B. It's possible, but would take hours. It's not my photo so I won't show you the unedited scene (I have it though) but you'll have to trust that the image is substantially less powerful without it.

My contention was never that there aren't other ways to do it. I took exception to the 'never ever ever ever use D/B' comment, and the position that knowing it will somehow limit your ability to learn anything else.

:)

DanSig

03/25/2005 03:28:37 PM · #20

Originally posted by Pedro:

using dodge/burn when starting to use photoshop will always affect your photos, but if you master photoshop first, using layers, masks, levels, curves and other options in photoshop then you have learned how to dodge/burn even without ever using dodge/burn, but if you start using dodge/burn before learning the other methods then you´ll never master photoshop, if you use layers and masks with the dodge/burn tool then the outcome will be much more professional then to use the dodge/burn tool on the original image like most people do that uses the dodge/burn tool :)

03/25/2005 03:40:40 PM · #21

"The Cellist" screams for the second technique I posted. In this case, you want a completely customizable, reversible flow, and dodge/burn does not fit this bill. Yes, you can do the dodge and burn on a separate layer and change opacity, or start over if you screw it up, but a layer mask is sooooo much more flexible, and can save incredible amounts of time in case you want to change the areas and/or amounts of dodge/burn.
I do disagree that using the dodge/burn tools wil somehow limit our learning, although I would agree that we do sometimes tend to gravitate to one method or tool, and need to occasionally force ourselve to get "out of the obx" in order to learn more.
There are usually at least five ways to do somehting in PS, and none are right (or wrong) all the time. I still use the dodge/burn tools very occasionally, but less and less these days.

03/25/2005 03:48:48 PM · #22

Sorry, one point I forgot to mention Fritz: your second technique is new to me, and I've cut and pasted the steps for my future reference. Expect to hear from me when I run into problems ;)

thanks for the edumacation.

Just about daily I look back on previously edited images and realise that just weeks after I did them, I now know things that would cause me to have done them differently had i known them before.

My favourite quote from "The Incredibles" (I know...seriously heavy cinematic reference here):

"Never look back, DAH-ling...it distracts from the now."

:D