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03/23/2005 06:44:58 PM · #76
im slowing rising... started at 4.5 now im at 4.87 crossing my fingers that somepeople out there dont mind having a toy in a picture. I've entered toy pics before and i know that it wasnt going to please many people... but really just because i did'nt go out and take a picture, that i actually took it in my house, and the sublect was something in my house does that mean that i should be penalized. I guess that i can't complain though. Wish everyone good luck!
-dan
03/23/2005 06:54:20 PM · #77
woo...5.0! :D
03/23/2005 07:01:00 PM · #78
I'm also getting "Bored" with alot of the animal shots (I was actually amazed at how many ape shots there were!!!) but, I gave out 2 10's and one of them was an animal shot. I'm not going to automatically dismiss ANY entry. I try to comment on what I can, but I find that sometimes I give a shot a low score just because it's "Ho-hum." I don't neccisarily have a very good critiques, the shot's just boring (No pun intended.)

L8r,
03/23/2005 07:13:02 PM · #79
It's not just the majority of the animal shots that seem to be outside the challenge, the majority of the shots in the challenge don't meet the challenge. Everytime this happens, and it happens on occasion (typically with the more abstract challenge topics), it is frustrating, giving low scores to many of the entrants and lots of animosity toward the other voters. Hope was another challenge that had lots of photos that, were they seen without their titles, wouldn't give an impression of the challenge topic...and people had the same problem there.

I have made 7 comments so far and frankly I do not feel motivated to go through and write 'Does not meet the challenge' 50 or 60 times. In my opinion, there are at least that many photos that don't meet the challenge - other voters certainly feel differently.

The good thing about DPC is that the cream always rises to the top, even in the most uninspired challenges. If your photo isn't doing well, look at it and ask yourself why before asking the rest of us. If you can honestly critique yourself, in the long run, that will make you more successful here since you will ask yourself that question before submitting.
03/23/2005 07:23:41 PM · #80
Originally posted by w24x192:

The good thing about DPC is that the cream always rises to the top, even in the most uninspired challenges. If your photo isn't doing well, look at it and ask yourself why before asking the rest of us. If you can honestly critique yourself, in the long run, that will make you more successful here since you will ask yourself that question before submitting.


I agree with that. I usually know what's not happening about a shot that I took, straight away(except in the Light On White Challenge, which now I fully agree with)and generally think it's all pretty obvious within two or three comments where I went wrong...or right.

I'm sure there will be more exceptions in the future.
03/23/2005 07:40:08 PM · #81
OK The concensus seems to be that the quality of photos in this challenge is lower than that of other challenges. Should we put an asterisk by the ribbon winners stating that they ribboned in a sub-standard challenge? I think not. Perhaps they should be applauded for creating a fine image when others could not?

Holding at 5.4
03/23/2005 08:36:13 PM · #82
i agree, most shots do seem a bit mediocre in this challenge, but there are still some excellent ones. i'm a big fan of creativity and i usually bump up a vote if its creative.
03/23/2005 08:57:49 PM · #83
This is the way I see it. The theme is "Bored." That's an emotion. Emotions don't come accross as true if the photo looks obviously staged. Even stock photos attempt to not look posed, even if they are obviously a studio shot and not candid.
In order to capture an emotion, it has to be true to the emotion. for instance, if the emotion was anger, I can tell from what I see in this challenge, there would be a lot of shots of someone yelling at the camera, but not convaying why they are "mad."
In this challenge, there were far too many "easy" shots that had little imagination. Too many showed someone with their hand on their chin looking bored but did nothing to attempt to show why they were bored. There were a select few that actually showed why they were bored and that made them much more interesting and complex.
Also, there were far too many shots of animals dazing or sleeping. ANYONE can go to the zoo and take a picture of a lazing animal. But, come on, there is no complexity to it.
But if you are going to go with an obvious and/or staged idea, like the hand on the chin, at least try to find a unique way to do it. Give it some depth, some substance. Don't just get your friend to lean against his chin and, "click." Too easy. Just like an actor, try to find a motivation for the sceen. Also, just like an artist, which photographer are, try to find a unique and fresh angle, lighting, and such. You can take a standard easy shot and make it fresh and unique with a little effort. Showing an environment with the subject is a very effective way of doing just that.
If we were all in art class and the teacher told us to paint like Picaso, would we all simply copy one of his paintings? I hope not. We would attempt to capure the mood or the style, but the subject would be fresh.
Photography of any kind should be treated like an art form. Far to often, people approach a photo shoot simply as capturing a moment. But there is so much more to it. Compsition, lighting, use of focus, and so on all play a roll in a good photo.
I'm not putting anyone down here. The idea of this forum is to share ideas and experience. That is how we all get better. I'd like to see everyone take their photography to the next level and the next.
03/23/2005 09:26:35 PM · #84
based on what this thread is saying..I really would expect my pic to be much higher..no animals, not staged, original, creative, and I think well photographed...but maybe in this challenge it's not really all that low...it is slowly moving up though...
Votes: 116
Views: 142
Avg Vote: 4.8448
Comments: 1
Favorites: 0
Good Luck Ya'll!!
~~SiSi
03/23/2005 09:41:51 PM · #85
arrgghh...I have been skewered by "Doesn't show boredom" fiend! You obviously lack the ability to see it, question your eyes liliputan of a critic! Who could possibly miss the sweet artistic implication of abslolute and profound.....(yawn)...ugh..naptime...[to be continued]
03/23/2005 09:47:45 PM · #86
Hello, I am new to this site. I hope to post some photos soon and enter some contests as well. There seems to be a lot of great artistic photographers on this site. I hope I can contribute constructively.

I do have a question however. It seems that a lot of you folks title your photos. Now that certainly is not a bad thing, I do it as well on occasion. But my schooling and experience has always been firm about the picture standing on its own. It should convey exactly what you want it to by itself. One criticism (I can only describe it as that) is that a lot of the shots in this challenge, thematically only make sense with the accompanied title. Does anyone else see this as well? Is this a problem with anyone?

Anyway, one heck of a hello, but there it is. I, as a newbie definately understand if this comment is ignored. I by no means intend to offend anyone, so if I have, I apologize. The best way to learn and share with you folks is to just jump in a get my feet wet.
03/23/2005 09:51:44 PM · #87
Did you enter an photo in this challenge? How is it doing?

Originally posted by crockettdl:

This is the way I see it. The theme is "Bored." That's an emotion. Emotions don't come accross as true if the photo looks obviously staged. Even stock photos attempt to not look posed, even if they are obviously a studio shot and not candid.
In order to capture an emotion, it has to be true to the emotion. for instance, if the emotion was anger, I can tell from what I see in this challenge, there would be a lot of shots of someone yelling at the camera, but not convaying why they are "mad."
In this challenge, there were far too many "easy" shots that had little imagination. Too many showed someone with their hand on their chin looking bored but did nothing to attempt to show why they were bored. There were a select few that actually showed why they were bored and that made them much more interesting and complex.
Also, there were far too many shots of animals dazing or sleeping. ANYONE can go to the zoo and take a picture of a lazing animal. But, come on, there is no complexity to it.
But if you are going to go with an obvious and/or staged idea, like the hand on the chin, at least try to find a unique way to do it. Give it some depth, some substance. Don't just get your friend to lean against his chin and, "click." Too easy. Just like an actor, try to find a motivation for the sceen. Also, just like an artist, which photographer are, try to find a unique and fresh angle, lighting, and such. You can take a standard easy shot and make it fresh and unique with a little effort. Showing an environment with the subject is a very effective way of doing just that.
If we were all in art class and the teacher told us to paint like Picaso, would we all simply copy one of his paintings? I hope not. We would attempt to capure the mood or the style, but the subject would be fresh.
Photography of any kind should be treated like an art form. Far to often, people approach a photo shoot simply as capturing a moment. But there is so much more to it. Compsition, lighting, use of focus, and so on all play a roll in a good photo.
I'm not putting anyone down here. The idea of this forum is to share ideas and experience. That is how we all get better. I'd like to see everyone take their photography to the next level and the next.

03/23/2005 10:02:08 PM · #88
Tadpole-
You're right. I've noticed, as well, that with many pictures, the only link between the photograph and the theme is the title.

What I do is first look at the picture and develop what I think about it and how it fits the theme. If I don't see a connection, I'm prepared to give a lower score. THEN I look at the title and see if it reveals any elements that I may have missed in the photograph itself (very different from some link via words to tie the photo to the theme), or makes me say, "Ohhhhhh, I get it--clever!". If the title clues me in to something I ought to have seen in the picture, the score goes up.

However, if all it does is say, "Look, I have a picture of a hippo for this challenge on elephants. Hippos are sorta like elephants, so I'm gonna name my hippo picture 'Short-Nosed Elephant Swimming Around Underwater' and who-hoo--it fits!" then the score stays put low as not relating to the challenge, because it's still a hippo in an elephant challenge.

-Annette
03/23/2005 10:03:06 PM · #89
Originally posted by canoe3k:

arrgghh...I have been skewered by "Doesn't show boredom" fiend! You obviously lack the ability to see it, question your eyes liliputan of a critic! Who could possibly miss the sweet artistic implication of abslolute and profound.....(yawn)...ugh..naptime...[to be continued]

me too...maybe someone just putting it on all the photos he/she doesnt like??
~~SiSi
ps...from what I can see all the photos fall victim to one of 2 things..
1) its staged..like the "hand under the chin" thing
or
2)..it is original, therefore doesn't fit the challenge
either way, almost every pic can get half 1s and half 10s...
~~damned if ya do......
Edit to add thots

Message edited by author 2005-03-23 22:08:14.
03/23/2005 10:09:53 PM · #90
I got hit by that too, the assumption being that if you close your eyes, you must be sleeping.

Don't blink!!!

d
03/24/2005 07:46:43 AM · #91
[quote=eostyles] Did you enter an photo in this challenge? How is it doing?

[quote=crockettdl] This is the way I see it. The theme is "Bored." That's an emotion. Emotions don't come accross as true if the photo looks obviously staged. ...

Yes, I did submit a photo to this challenge. Of course I don't want to say which one, however my current score is:

Votes: 142
Views: 205
Avg Vote: 5.7746

I am actually surprised some of these photos are not doing well. There are about 6 or so that capture boredom in a very creative and interesting way, without being boring itself. The common thread in all of them is that the photo clearly offers a reason for the bordom and all at least look candid.

I would never put down someone elses work. I only offer constructive criticisim, just as I would expect from any of you. If anyone disagrees with what I've said, please post a rebuttal.
03/24/2005 07:51:14 AM · #92
Votes: 147
Views: 185
Avg Vote: 4.5306
Comments: 3
Favorites: 0
Wish Lists: 0

shucks almost got me a ribbon....
03/24/2005 08:32:30 AM · #93
[quote=dahkota] I got hit by that too, the assumption being that if you close your eyes, you must be sleeping.

Don't blink!!!

Yes, that is the logical assumption. It is not a video. It is a single split second frozen in time and must speak for itself. A picture's worth a thousand words? Yes, and someing leaning on their arm with their eyes shut says, "I'm asleep"... but not really bored. Sometimes, a great idea in the head doesn't translate into a good photo. It's sometimes very difficult to look at ones' own photos objectively say, "What does this really convay?" The mind can project a meaning that isn't really there because the photographer was there when the photo was taken and may know that the person was really bored and not sleeping, and so sees it in the photo. However, for the rest of us, it may just look like someone sleeping.
03/24/2005 08:42:30 AM · #94
I'm a photojounalist and I've learned through years of schooling and experience that a photo should always be able to speak for itself, without a caption or title. A good image draws the viewer into the setting and evokes some sort of emotion and connection to the subject. This is true for everything from portraits to landscapes to candid family shots. The best ones will all have something in common: they will all draw say more than simply, "here is what this looks like at this moment." The photo should tell a story or a bit about the subject. This is usually captured in what's called, "the definitive moment."
Here is an excerpt from my website I wrote on the definitive moment:

The definitive moment captures the sum of an event at its climax in a single frame. It tells the story more completely than any other frozen moment. The definitive moment can tell the story through strong emotion or action, and usually both.

To capture the definitive moment, a photograph must also be technically superior. Elements such as composition, focus and exposure play an important roll in allowing the story to be told. However, sometimes one or more of these elements can be weaker if the others are strong enough to make up for it.

The definitive moment often happens in a split second and always requires a trained eye to recognize and capture it.

Great photographs always capture the definitive moment, and that’s the difference between a good photograph and a great photograph.

The definitive portrait captures the personality of a person, not just what they look like at any given moment, but also who they are. From a portrait, you should be able to learn something about that person...

You can learn more on my Website at www.photogig.com
03/24/2005 09:28:26 AM · #95
In many respects, I completely agree. Looking at my challenge choice, it is not quite a good fit, maybe even stretching it to be bored. Also, the image is not strong enough for voters to disregard the challenge topic as happens here occasionally. I fully admit to this. And I really have no problem with the score I have. I just wish I could get a comment more than, "Doesn't fit the challenge." Okay, I understand, but what about the image?

As for the moment (dust in the wind flashbacks), its all a matter of perception. A great photograph captures the right moment that the viewer can relate to. A great photograph to one person might be crap to another. Those images that relate to the greatest number of people are considered the best images.

A great photograph can speak for itself but a caption, title, or story invites the viewer deeper into the definitive moment.

d
03/24/2005 10:17:08 AM · #96
"A great photograph can speak for itself but a caption, title, or story invites the viewer deeper into the definitive moment."

I agree, but the photograph shouldn't NEED a title to understand it's meaning (if indeed it has a meaning). I can be technically perfect on a shot, but if I need to add a title so the viewer "gets it", to me, I failed in my goal of capturing the moment.

BTW, There are a lot of photos to rank and comment on in these competitions and I don't see how I could possibly comment on all of them and still have time for my family, responsibilities, job, church, etc. I'm new here, so I hope to vote on as many as possible and will try to comment on the ones I can. Learning to constructively critique anothers images is an artform that merits some thought. Learning from a critique can be even harder. Thick skin is a must if your gonna have folks critique your work.

03/24/2005 11:48:45 AM · #97
Originally posted by crockettdl:

This is the way I see it. The theme is "Bored." That's an emotion. Emotions don't come accross as true if the photo looks obviously staged.


Actually, "bored" is an adjective. It's not an "emotion" as much as "surprised" is not an emotion, but rather a state of being. Staged photos can, in my opinion, depict "emotions" quite well. Staged photos, however, often fail to depict the state of being that they try to capture.

It might be a matter of semantics, but then again, what isn't?
03/24/2005 12:27:01 PM · #98
Originally posted by robgo:

Originally posted by crockettdl:

This is the way I see it. The theme is "Bored." That's an emotion. Emotions don't come accross as true if the photo looks obviously staged.


Actually, "bored" is an adjective. It's not an "emotion" as much as "surprised" is not an emotion, but rather a state of being. Staged photos can, in my opinion, depict "emotions" quite well. Staged photos, however, often fail to depict the state of being that they try to capture.

It might be a matter of semantics, but then again, what isn't?


Although you are technically correct, I still say that boredom is also an emotion, not just a state of being. I think surprise is also an emotion, even if extremely brief.
I agree that emotion can be staged, but if it looks staged, it's much harder to convince. That is where acting skills from the subject is important. A state of being can be captured if you give it a reason, explain why that state of being or an emotion is there. If you don't explain WHY, then something is missing and the photo will not be as strong.

03/24/2005 01:00:42 PM · #99
I am one of those people who submitted a "animal photo". It was my first challenge and I felt that the picture met the challenge. The animal looked bored, and was bored when I took the photo. Would I give my photo a "10" just because I felt it met the challenge? Absolutely not! Would I give it a 1 because it was a photo of an animal? No. I hadn't been here long enough to know that everyone hates seeing pictures of people, animals, sunsets, landscapes, skylines, water droplets, posed photos, candid photos, outside the box photo's, inside the box photos, eggs, etc... So what is there left to take pictures of? Aren't these things what 99% of all photos sold are taken of? I was hoping to get some constructive advice as to how to improve my photos.

My biggest complaint with this challenge is that a lot of people don't seem to care what the theme of the challenge is. They think the title of the picture is enough of a link to make it fit. Example: The challenge is FORD. I submit a beautiful "art shot" of my Toyota and give it a title of "Wants to be a FORD". Does this photo meet the challenge? NO. Should it score highly because it is a technically superior photo. In my opinion, No. For the "Bored" challenge I am using the following base for scoring.

Does it fit the challenge?
Yes =5
No =1

Is the photo technically good?
Yes +1-2
No +0

Is the photo interesting or striking to me?
Yes +1-2
No +0

Is the Title clever or add additional meaning to the photo?
Yes +1
No +0

I realize this is somewhat simplistic scoring and I am sure it will evolve as I score more challenges. I was also trying to give comments to as many photo's as I could. I commented on 52% of the Stock Photography II challenge photos. After seeing so many photo's on the "bored" challenge that didn't fit, I began pasting a generic comment on them. I apologize for offending anyone by letting them know why I gave them a low score. It appears that people would rather not know why the score they got was low. I am sure that I will be tagged as a "troll" or less for giving out low scores, but I actually have studied each of the photos and graded according the the above scale, rather than hand out an automatic 1 or 2 because it was a picture of a pet or a posed photo.

If you would rather have no critique for the score I gave you, let me know, and I will stop commenting on all but the top 10% of my picks.

OK, I'll get off my soapbox now and go back to taking pictures of animals, sunsets, trees, etc...

2Shay
03/24/2005 01:36:51 PM · #100
You have commented on 67 images (27%) in this challenge (bored)...
and still going.. how about everyone posts there comment statistics. maybe it will drive some people to lay down some comments.
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