Art Appreciation 3 - DPChallenge Forums

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

09/05/2002 04:03:04 AM · #1

(Here are 1 and 2).

This time, because jmsetzler wanted me to :), I'm going to talk about a very famous photo by Man Ray called "Le Violon D'Ingres":

The "Artists Rights Society" doesn't want you to learn about this painting. Their astute legal department has cracked down on our evil operation here. Send your questions to [url=mailto:rrichter@arsny.com]Rona Richter[/url], Legal Department / Rights Administrator, ARSNY.

There's a larger version here.

It's hard for me to know what to say about this image, because it's really pretty straightforward. The impact of it is plain and simple - it's a visual analogy between a woman's body and a musical instrument. I talked about this photo with jmsetzler in the chatroom a little while ago because he said he was trying something similar (not quite the same) with his Moonlight Sonata photo, using the shadows across the woman's tummy to create the feeling of a piano keyboard.

Man Ray's photography dates back to the 20s and 30s, when he was a member of the Dada movement, and later pretty much the first photographer to work within the Surrealist movement. When we see his photography now it doesn't seem so unique, but back then it was very avant garde. We're used to the idea of images being manipulated now, however in the 20s photography was still a very new medium and was mostly formal and strictly representational. He broke through that and began to really manipulate images, using things like photograms (he called them "rayographs") where objects were placed directly on the photographic paper which was then exposed to light, with no use of a camera at all; and techniques like solarisation.

Dada was one of the movements that shook the world after WWI, when all the foundations of European society up until that point had been completely shattered, morality had been replaced by chaos, everything was uncertain, all the worst things anyone could imagine had come true. It's interesting to see how this influenced artists like Man Ray. Surrealism was about finding the art beyond realism, exploring the subconscious mind (with a very heavy influence from Freud's philosophies), communicating in a language of symbolism and reaching into the depths of the human psyche. There was also a sense of dark humour in most Dadaist/Surrealist work... laughing in the face of chaos and horror.

When you look at "Le Violon D'Ingres" with all this in mind, a few things that lie beneath the surface become apparent. There is deep symbolism here. Perhaps it's more than just an analogy between a woman and a musical instrument... perhaps it goes further and compares art (the act of playing a double bass or violin) to sex. Photographing a nude in itself is quite a sexual act, especially in this case when you recognise that the model here is Kiki de Montparnasse, Man Ray's muse and lover for many years. He took hundreds of photos of her, and considered her body to be the epitome of perfection.

But then there's also a kind of witticism here, that undermines the solmnity and formality of the pose and style of the photo. None of Man Ray's photos ever give you a sense that he took art, or life, very seriously. He was out to entertain himself most of the time, just like any true Dadaist. Along the way he became one of the most influential photographers of the 20th C... but I don't think that was ever his aim.

If you would like to see a huge number of his photos online, go here, however they're all frustratingly tiny.

* This message has been edited by an administrator (drewmedia) on 9/16/2002 5:47:13 PM - cease and desist. .

Message edited by author 2002-12-16 11:40:36.

chrisab

Canon EOS-40D

09/05/2002 04:13:15 AM · #2

Lisa, another excellent post! Thanks for putting these together, I've really enjoyed all 3!

C

lionelm

Canon EOS-10D

Canon EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS

09/05/2002 07:32:15 AM · #3

Yes Lisa, I like this a lot, somebody talking about a picture like this taken by a photograph.
I will try to do one later, for .. in one or 2 weeks even if I will not probably be as successfull as you !
Thanks for it (I will read the 2 others later).
Somethin I think is VERY important, just like you did is to put the link to the previous one otherwise , they would 'forgotten' which would be too bad.
:-)

Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 EX Aspherical DF for Canon

09/05/2002 09:03:51 AM · #4

Go for it lionel! I'd love to read it :). I really don't have any formal training in art analysis or anything... I took art at a High School level, my parents started taking me to some of the more significant exhibitions at our national and state art galleries when I was in my early teens (and I've continued going to exhibitions ever since), and I used to watch documentaries and series about art on TV voraciously... One of my favourites was the series "Art of the Western World" presented by Michael Wood. My father bought me the companion book for that series and I read it and reread it many times, studying all the pictures until I knew them pretty much by heart :). I also loved "American Visions" by Robert Hughes later on.

So, I don't have any deep knowledge of art analysis or history, just "enough" to satisfy myself. Writing these is a great experience, giving me a motive to do some research and put some things into words that I might not have thought about in detail otherwise. I strongly encourage other people to do this... write a few paragraphs about a photo or artist you like to really get to the core of how and why it/he/she has that effect on you.

magnetic9999

Canon EOS-20D

09/05/2002 09:05:15 AM · #5

GREAT ARTICLE :) I'm enjoying these.

Kudos for doing this .

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

09/05/2002 12:38:49 PM · #6

Lisae,

I really like this particular image. It's unfortunate that the actual print quality of this one is not showing through here... I love the way the theme of music is worked into this image. It's great :)

amonteforte

Canon EOS-5D Mark II

Canon EF 75-300mm f/4.0-5.6 IS USM

09/05/2002 03:33:37 PM · #7

Lisa, this is very enjoyable and instructive. I love it. I am grateful for your time to post them, and I will be thankful everytime you post another one. I will even have the audacity to ask you if you would be willing to comment on some of the photographs by Tina Modoti and Manuel Alvarez Bravo.

Thanks a lot.

aldo

aelith

Olympus C-3020Z

09/05/2002 06:08:12 PM · #8

Here is a footnote. The title of the photo is giving tribute to a great french painter.

Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres (1780-1867), a French painter who was a leading figure in the neoclassical movement. He was greatly influenced by the work of Italian Renaissance painter Raphael, and his style has been described as inspired by both Raphael and David. His first portraits fall into two categories: portraits of himself and his friends, conceived in a Romantic spirit; and portraits of well-to-do clients which are characterized by purity of line and enamel-like coloring. These early portraits are notable for their calligraphic line and expressive contour, which had a sensuous beauty of its own beyond its function to contain and delineate form. It was a feature that formed the essential basis of Ingres's painting throughout his life. During his first years in Rome he continued to execute portraits and began to paint bathers, a theme which was to become one of his favorites. He became the recognized leader of the neoclassical school

His 'Odalisque' is one of his more famous works most people will be familiar with. He also did several bathers in poses simular to the photo. Thus Man Ray is making a statement not only about the woman's body but Photography as High Art.

aelith

* This message has been edited by the author on 9/5/2002 6:07:25 PM.

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

09/05/2002 11:55:34 PM · #9

Thanks aelith! I knew there must be more to this photo, but I'd never heard of Ingres before (at least, his name isn't lodged in my memory anywhere), and nothing I read about Man Ray before writing this went into any details about just this photo.

Alecia

Canon EOS-10D

09/06/2002 03:54:46 AM · #10

this is fabulous lisa! thank you for exposing us to these varied artists that we would probably not normally come across.

drewmedia

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

09/16/2002 05:45:24 PM · #11

bump.

*giggle*

09/19/2002 10:46:39 AM · #12

Here is an email I just sent to our friend at the "Artists Rights Society" :

Ms. Richter:

Greetings. I was wondering why you requested that the dpchallenge.com website de-link or pull down the Man Ray Photo called �Le Violon D�Ingres� ? I am assuming you are an attorney and so you are aware of public use exceptions to copyright law as well as the many cases that have come down recently allowing deep linking for educational purposes. Anyway, I think it is a shame that law is being used to create information elitism especially when your organization claims it is focused on furthering the arts. I would be curious to hear from you, since I am appalled at you and your organization�s actions on this matter.

Christopher A. McVety
Attorney At Law
Sachnoff & Weaver, Ltd.
30 South Wacker Drive, 29th Floor
Chicago, IL 60606

09/19/2002 12:15:58 PM · #13

And here is her response:

Dear Mr. McVety,

Thank you for your e-mail.

As you know from my letter to DPChallenge.com, Artists Rights Society (ARS)
represents the intellectual property rights for the Estate of Man Ray and
many other artists and estates. Therefore, ARS' main activity is not in
"furthering the arts" (please let me know where received this information),
but to provide the service to our clients, the artists and estates, of
administrating their copyrights to our best abilities.

The Estate of Man Ray in France has found the image on dpchallenge.com and
has explicitly given us the order to look into this usage and check the
permissions situation. I am an attorney, but I have never heard of the
"public use exceptions" (I have heard of fair use). In any event, if at all
applicable in this case, fair use is not a concept shared by European
countries, such as France, where the image can be viewed as well. Lastly,
I'm not quite sure I understand why you refer to "deep linking", as the
image appears on dpchallenge.com's own web site, and is not merely linked
from another web site.

In any event, this case is not worth any further time spent on your or my
end, and I hereby kindly ask you to have your client submit a request to ARS
for the display of the image on the world wide web. We may waive any rights
fees, and simply ask them to attach the copyright credit line to the image.

Thank you for your understanding.

Best regards,

Rona Richter

09/19/2002 12:47:21 PM · #14

And here is my response back....

Ms. Richter-

First, I am not actually representing anyone in this matter but instead am just expressing my own personal disdain for the type of information elitism illustrated by your client. Obviously you personally have your own feelings on this matter and how copyright law should be used, but it is disappointing that you did not counsel your client differently on this matter after reviewing the facts at hand (use based on an educational purpose on a not-for-profit website). Within the fair use doctrine, as you know, one of the factors considered is public v. private use (commercial v. not-for-profit). This is what I was referring to in my earlier email.

Instead of being negatively proactive by demanding something be taken down, it might be helpful in the future for you and your client to consider the complete situation and offer constructive remedies (such as limited licenses, etc). The actions taken in this situation are why there is such a terrible stereotype of lawyers in our society.

I am fully aware of the differences in how Europe views IP versus the United States. However, as we both know, the Internet is not bound by international geographic boundaries, and so your client should realize that it is subject to the laws of every jurisdiction for which its works are displayed, including the United States.

It is unfortunate that the Artists Rights Society actually admits that it is not for the furthering of the arts. Sounds strangely familiar (RIAA?). I guess this is what the problem is when artists are only focused on the monetary value of their creativity, but that is a debate for another forum. Obviously the type of legal policing and information elitism exhibited in this situation gives your client a terrible name amongst those that care for the arts, as is illustrated in the forum discussions on dpchallenge.com.

Regardless, the most ironic part of this whole situation is that the Estate of Man Ray obviously does not know a thing about the artist himself. If it cared to actually learn about the person it represents, it would realize that he was actively involved in the Dada movement. The very fact that we are having this conversation is laughable given the movement�s main philosophy.

Thank you very much for your time.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

09/19/2002 03:06:27 PM · #15

As part of a little side research on the Dadaist movement, I found the following:

Although a major point of Dada is that is a not supposed to be
a movement, several of the artists released manifestos, the most
signification being The First Dada Manifesto by Hugo Ball released
on July 14, 1916. In his manifesto, Ball professes the philosophy
of Dada which consists of three major points,

"1. Dada is international in perspective and seeks to bridge differences,
2. Dada is antagonistic toward established society in the modern
avant-garde, Bohemian tradition of the épater-le-bourgeios posture
3. Dada is a new tendency in art that seeks to change conventional
attitudes and practices in aesthetics, society, and morality."

09/19/2002 03:12:15 PM · #16

Yes, that is basically what I learned about Dadaism in college. Thanks for the research. I believe it backs up my general point that Man Ray would think the Arists Rights Society was absurd in its actions regarding "Le Violon D'Ingres".