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03/14/2005 03:46:19 PM · #1 |
I didn't want to hijack another thread (Repeat voting). I saw in conversation the topic of download times for voting on images. Here's an excerpt from a quote by kirbic:
Originally posted by kirbic:
...It certainly is an ever-less-general need since the number of users on dialup continues to plummet...
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I live in a very rural area and cannot get cable or DSL. The only option besides dial-up is satellite and I balk at paying the start-up/installation cost for this. Therefore I'm stuck getting a 40K (avg) connection.
Am I alone? How many DPC users rely on dial-up?
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03/14/2005 03:52:47 PM · #2 |
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03/14/2005 03:55:17 PM · #3 |
| Dial up here as well. My BEST speed at home is 26.4K. (Therefore I do all scoring at work.... lots of breaks :) |
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03/14/2005 03:56:16 PM · #4 |
| Dial up at home :( No DSL available, either. |
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03/14/2005 04:11:11 PM · #5 |
The first time we ran this poll was in October 2002:
56k or lower 104
Cable / DSL 286
T1 or greater 33
We ran it again in July, 2004:
56k or lower 111
Cable / DSL 650
T1 or greater 53
So over 30% were on dialup in 2002, and about 14% in 2004. With the rapid adoption of broadband in the past year, I suspect the percentage is dropping rapidly, and might even be below 10%. I've recently suggested re-running the poll this Spring so we can track this important stat.
Though users on dialup are fast becoming a small minority, we certaily don't want to adopt features or policies that exclude or unduly penalize them. That's one reason (and there are others) that the file size limit of 150k is in place and unlikely to change significantly.
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03/14/2005 04:14:05 PM · #6 |
Last October we ran a poll on this. At that time, one out of every 7.33 respondents reported they connected to DPC at 56K or slower.
When the same poll was run in 2002, one of every 4.07 users reported they connected at 56K or slower.
-Terry
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03/14/2005 04:17:08 PM · #7 |
Thanks for the heads-up guys. Should have known you'd be on top of it! ;^)
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03/14/2005 04:34:04 PM · #8 |
I would pay an extra $10 per year for the option to view 500x375 files...
And before everyone gets all carried away that I would miss important details, let that be MY call, okay? Broadband users might even like the option to see 800x600, which would significantly up the bandwidth of the site and thus would make it worth extra money on their part as well... |
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03/14/2005 04:43:38 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by nards656:
I would pay an extra $10 per year for the option to view 500x375 files...
And before everyone gets all carried away that I would miss important details, let that be MY call, okay? Broadband users might even like the option to see 800x600, which would significantly up the bandwidth of the site and thus would make it worth extra money on their part as well... |
Interesting idea, but a logistical nightmare I would think. Each user submitting to a challenge would have to post multiple files for voters to view at different settings (I wouldn't want my images resized without having control of the results). DPC coding would need updating to link the three (as you've proposed) sized images (voting results) into one summary. Actually, the voting page could have all three images, just display to the logged in user based on their preferences, but still...
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03/14/2005 04:57:03 PM · #10 |
The idea of increasing the allowable image size has come up on a number of occasions. It could actually be done without increasing the file size, the difference between 640x640 @ 150k and 800x640 @ 150k is minimal for the vast majority of shots. There are other issues, however; we can't go to 800px H because of screen limitations, and therefore there would be "favoritism toward landscape orientation." There would also be greater complexity in what's allowed size-wise, and the simple rule now in place already causes confusion among some of those new to it. Finally, there is concern that larger images are more subject to theft, and it is impossible to prevent theft without also making it really inconvenient for users in other ways.
All that said, I personally would support it, it's just something that is a very complex issue.
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03/14/2005 05:06:30 PM · #11 |
When I first joined I had cable, then I moved and now am on dial-up.
I really dont think its that bad for this site, so the pics don't load instantly, it doesn't take forever either.
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03/14/2005 05:09:00 PM · #12 |
As for your poll, you may want to split it up even more...as in work or home? Some people may answer differently depending on that...and does where in the world you are effect speed?
Perhaps make it a question for new subs and renewals...
As for speed, while i know many folks on broadband, many many still are on dial up. The poll may be skewed because broadband users are more likely to spend more time on line.
a T1 is 1.5mb per sec, approx. Comcast here in PA uses cable modems - at a whopping 4Mb per sec! I wouldn't want a T1!
Between 4mb per second, USB 2.0 and no lag on my rebels shutter, if speed kills i'll be dead soon.
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03/14/2005 05:31:35 PM · #13 |
A more accurate way of measuring how users connect to the site would be to implement a script to capture that environmental information, rather than using a self-selected poll. I'm not sure what such a script would look for from users' browsers; however, am certain that such a sniffing script can be developed. I'd love to see the results.
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03/14/2005 05:35:10 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
As for your poll, you may want to split it up even more...as in work or home? Some people may answer differently depending on that...and does where in the world you are effect speed? |
We actually worded it so users were to answer as to what type of service they use "a majority" of the time they access the site. That way work/home is not an issue
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Perhaps make it a question for new subs and renewals... |
A very good idea...
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
As for speed, while i know many folks on broadband, many many still are on dial up. The poll may be skewed because broadband users are more likely to spend more time on line. |
True the poll is skewed, specifically to those predisposed to be on DPC, which is of course not a representative sample of all internet users. Within the DPC community, the skew is probably small, since the polls are usually up for a week, and the bandwidth and time required to register a vote in the poll is minimal. That hypothesis is borne out by the number of users responding; that number suggests that a large percentage of active users actually did/do respond.
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
a T1 is 1.5mb per sec, approx. Comcast here in PA uses cable modems - at a whopping 4Mb per sec! I wouldn't want a T1! |
I have a couple co-workers in Chicago who have up to 7 Mb/s! I'm "stuck" at 3, not that I should complain, LOL. Where T1 still is nice is on the uplink side. Even though I have 3Mb/s on the downstream side, my upstream speed is only 400kb/s (yuck). Takes a while to upload a large block of photos to a website.
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03/14/2005 05:39:13 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
True the poll is skewed, specifically to those predisposed to be on DPC, which is of course not a representative sample of all internet users. Within the DPC community, the skew is probably small, since the polls are usually up for a week, and the bandwidth and time required to register a vote in the poll is minimal. That hypothesis is borne out by the number of users responding; that number suggests that a large percentage of active users actually did/do respond. |
July 2004, 814 users answered the poll, out of 30,000 registered users...and you call that "large percentage of active users"...you gotta find a way to purge the inactive ones, unless the 30k figure is just there for bragging rights!
814 is a very small number..perhaps lots of people were on vacation?
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03/14/2005 05:39:33 PM · #16 |
What is this dial-up you speak of?
Andy
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03/14/2005 05:42:28 PM · #17 |
| It might be interesting to ask users not only for their current speed but also their intention as to speed 3 months out, 6 months out, 9 monthos out, 12 months out and so on. This is ever changing and getting a handle on how fast and what users intentions are could be helpful. |
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03/14/2005 05:43:43 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by awpollard:
What is this dial-up you speak of?
Andy |
Users still using dial-up modems to access the web: 56k and under.
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03/14/2005 05:44:42 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by bdobe:
Originally posted by awpollard:
What is this dial-up you speak of?
Andy |
Users still using dial-up modems to access the web: 56k and under. |
Read his profile - me thinks he was being sarcastic. Or has been in the computer lab too long.
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03/14/2005 05:50:34 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by bdobe:
Originally posted by awpollard:
What is this dial-up you speak of?
Andy |
Users still using dial-up modems to access the web: 56k and under. |
Read his profile - me thinks he was being sarcastic. Or has been in the computer lab too long. |
Ah... I was just over at the Ignorant Voters thread, discussing the Queens English vs our brand of it, so I figured language was failing us here as well. I clearly missed the [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tag!
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03/14/2005 05:53:36 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
July 2004, 814 users answered the poll, out of 30,000 registered users...and you call that "large percentage of active users"...you gotta find a way to purge the inactive ones, unless the 30k figure is just there for bragging rights!
814 is a very small number..perhaps lots of people were on vacation? |
The 30,000 number reflects all users who have ever registered. We don't purge inactive accounts since if someone decides to return, we'd like them not to find their account info gone. At some point it may be advisable to purge accounts of those who've never posted, voted, or commented, and who have been gone for some extended period (> 1year?).
Even though there are >1850 paid members and more registered users, only a fraction of that number access the site ona very regular basis. Thus a response of over 800 users reflects a pretty significant percentage of the very regular users.
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03/14/2005 06:13:38 PM · #22 |
| It never ceases to amaze me that there are still people on dialup... I've been on some sort of broadband or another for almost eight years now. EIGHT YEARS! In computer terms that's like two lifetimes... Sure, you can't get it everywhere, but the extent of places you can't is somewhat surprising to me too. If we had cable internet in Newfoundland eight years ago, you'd certainly figure that by now it would be available in nearly all of the US, with a population density of roughly 80 people per square mile, and 80% of the population in urban areas. |
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03/14/2005 06:22:40 PM · #23 |
At home I have dial-up for the same reason that many others are still using it: no other option available.
At college, though, I bought an independent DSL line for my room (and was switched off the college server). I can hardly stand coming home to DSL. At college I do a lot of downloading of anime (125mb+ per episode) so DSL speeds are a no brainer. |
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03/14/2005 06:30:46 PM · #24 |
I know it amazes a lot of folks that there are areas in the US with no good options for broadband. I had only one very poor option until 2 years ago, and I live within 25 miles of a major metro area.
The problem in the US is that the area that needs to be covered is huge, and the population, though somewhat concentrated in major cities, is still very widely spread. The infrastructure costs are huge for building and maintaining hard-wired systems, and so many folks are too far from a switch for DSL to work on the existing phone wires. The transition is in full swing, however, and almost all kids born today will prolly never know what dialup was.
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03/14/2005 06:31:34 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Prof_Fate:
Originally posted by kirbic:
True the poll is skewed, specifically to those predisposed to be on DPC, which is of course not a representative sample of all internet users. Within the DPC community, the skew is probably small, since the polls are usually up for a week, and the bandwidth and time required to register a vote in the poll is minimal. That hypothesis is borne out by the number of users responding; that number suggests that a large percentage of active users actually did/do respond. |
July 2004, 814 users answered the poll, out of 30,000 registered users...and you call that "large percentage of active users"...you gotta find a way to purge the inactive ones, unless the 30k figure is just there for bragging rights!
814 is a very small number..perhaps lots of people were on vacation? |
Statistically, 814 out of 30,000 is considered a very significant base on which to draw conclusions. Political pollsters get accurate predictions from far smaller samplings, percentage-wise. When you consider the 814 as compared to the actual number of active users of the site, it's an extremely significant percentage of responses.
Robt.
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