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03/10/2005 03:53:12 PM · #1
Well I just bombed the Ansel challenge. I was very impressed with the quality of entries. While I was wallowing in my own pity I thought that as a rule I will try to leave more notes and comments for the pics I vote 4, 3, or dare I say it 2,s. From this challenge I have learned(thanks to a comment left) how to look at detail in contrast and detail in black and white pics. (A classic Adams trait from what I understand) We all leave comments for well deserved pics(as we should) but I for one will try to leave comments to those who I think will benifit from my comments. Nothing could be more depressing than to have a score of 3.88 and have 0 comments.
03/10/2005 04:03:43 PM · #2
It could be that people have left comments outlining deficiencies and were subsequently berated by the very people they were trying to help. The sad fact of the matter is that some folks cannot stand criticism, be it of a constructive nature or not.

Just a thought,

Ray
03/10/2005 04:22:08 PM · #3
Slingshot, well put. While we're on the subject, along with simply pionting out everything wrong with the picture, let's try to out in a positive remark as well, even the pictures where we see such major flaws that we can't possibly score them well.

Why? Well, as mentioned by slingshot, 'Nothing could be more depressing than to have a score of 3.88 and have 0 comments.' Very true, but it's almost feels worse to get a low score and every single comment says 'terribly out of focus, 'blindingly overexposed,' 'absoloutly boring subject,' etc. That's so discorouging, especially to someone fairly brand-new with photography and here for the chance to really dive right in! Point out a nice color, an interesting curve, you get the idea. I've yet to see a picture without at least ONE redeeming quality.

It does,'t have to be long or rosy. Make it short, make it honest. say,

'A shame the shadows are so harsh on the backdrop (try moving the subject further away from it). I love the metal texture on that fork--so shiny!' (hypothetical)

That second sentence took me seven seconds to type. To the photographer of that picture, it was probably a seven seconds well spent, especially when they logged on to find half a dozen comments pointing out how flawed their picture is. Imagine your worst photo submission. Wouln't you have appreciated that?

-Annette

Message edited by author 2005-03-10 16:30:05.
03/10/2005 04:28:26 PM · #4
When I comment (which I need to do more often), I try to hit both ends first, then the middle. In reality, the middle is probably where we should focus our attention, since those folks might be trying harder. I would suggest though, that a score of 3.88 is a group comment.
03/10/2005 04:37:52 PM · #5
Once upon a time, back in the days when there were lots of comments...

Oh, for the good old days....

:)
03/10/2005 04:44:10 PM · #6
I for one would love to receive comments from folks that dole out low scores. Surely there had to be a valid reason for giving a photo a score of 1 or 2, and I would love to know what that glaring deficiency was.

I am new at digital photography and fully realize that there is a learning curve. Considering that we all have slightly different perspectives on things, I truly would love to hear from individuals from both ends of the scoring spectrum.

Ray
03/10/2005 04:46:42 PM · #7
I love beneficial comments. Criticism is great when it's constructive, and that's really the only kind of criticism I myself try to leave. I'm sure we all fail at that sometimes, though. Never know when someone else is going to say the same thing and just make your comment a little annoying :)

It's irritating to have people say they think you're photo is fantastic but they're lowering your score by half because they're tired of seeing similar photos, though.

Okay, that's off my chest. Hopefully that person won't read this thread and identify me.

;)
03/10/2005 04:51:17 PM · #8
Originally posted by RayEthier:

It could be that people have left comments outlining deficiencies and were subsequently berated by the very people they were trying to help. The sad fact of the matter is that some folks cannot stand criticism, be it of a constructive nature or not.

Just a thought,

Ray


I'm one of those people. I got really, really tired of the lashbacks from the images I scored low. I do a LOT more commenting in images I score in mid-range, on the presumption those shooters will wish to hearw hat i have to say. And I always comment on the ones I score high.

Robt.
03/10/2005 05:10:17 PM · #9
I am fairly new to the site and I have to say for me commenting is the very hardest part of participating. I am very unsure of my skills as a critic. The very first comment I received had the words “Technique needs work”. I looked at that and then back at my picture and started to think. He was right my technique does need work, but I would have a hard job saying that to someone I don’t even know. For me it is a double edged sword, getting the comments is why I am here, giving them is why I hate to vote. Maybe being a critic is something else I will improve at by participating.
03/10/2005 05:13:15 PM · #10
Originally posted by bear_music:



I'm one of those people. I got really, really tired of the lashbacks from the images I scored low. I do a LOT more commenting in images I score in mid-range, on the presumption those shooters will wish to hearw hat i have to say. And I always comment on the ones I score high.

Robt.


It is indeed sad that you refrain from making comments due to the backlash Bear, as I have always found your comments to be very much on the money. I recall receiving a negative comment from you , but the fact remains that what you said was exactly right, and I did learn from it.

Ray
03/10/2005 05:16:52 PM · #11
I just received a comment from Bear and what he said I will learn from. He picked up on one thing I saw while posting the photo and left an idea I didn’t even think of.

Thanks
03/10/2005 05:23:47 PM · #12
I would love to have the time to comment on every photo, but after voting I go back and set about commenting on the highest rated (telling them why I loved their shot) and then on the lowest rated (again, telling them why I scored it low).

It's so easy for use when viewing 200-400 images to just throw in a "nice shot" or "out of focus", which is why I do the voting first, and then come back the next day and do the comments in the way I described.

We all know how much we like to receive good comments so I try to do the "do unto others" thing.
03/10/2005 05:26:09 PM · #13
Bear has only commented on one of my pictures and it was my first one. Does that mean I'm getting worse? :)
03/10/2005 05:35:43 PM · #14
I received a comment about a picture that stated the picture appears muddy. Thats all. I was rather taken back so I emailed the person who made the comment a picture of a motocross rider plowing through a mud puddle with mud flying everywhere and told him that is a muddy picture.
Later I read a lot of his comments on other pictures and realized he knew what he was talking about and was giving good advice. I sent him an apology for what I did with the muddy comment. I try to answer every comment now and tell them how their comment will help me in the future. I believe an answer to a comment will be appreciated as much as the comment. Thanks Bear
03/10/2005 05:58:00 PM · #15
Originally posted by nards656:

Once upon a time, back in the days when there were lots of comments...

Oh, for the good old days....

:)

If you scan the Challenge History I think you'll see that the average number of comments/picture hasn't changed significantly since early in 2003.
03/10/2005 10:32:32 PM · #16
one more final thought. I suggest that everyone who takes comments to heart should look at the body of work that the commentator has produced. I am always willing to take criticism from those whose work I admire. More often than not when I have gotten totally useless comments it seems to come from members whose work is average at best. This is not sour grapes. I welcome all comments because I can learn from all comments.
And as for 3.88 being a group comment...Well said....
I was lazy and my wife didn't even like my pic.
03/10/2005 11:52:54 PM · #17
Bear..I would love a comment from you on my entry. Too bad I can't tell you which one! It's the black and white (in the AA challenge.) I think you give very helpful and thoughtful critiques.
03/11/2005 12:13:51 AM · #18
I have been pondering over my votes for a few days and there are still a few days left. I have some definite opinions about those I have voted lowest, but, because of being a bit sensitive about the response I might get from the photographers if I say what I really want to say about their work I have held back from commenting. I try to be constructive and I don't want to offend, but I'm not an expert. I don't want to remain anonymous but I don't want a bunch of reponses suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about either. I appreciate the comments that are helpful on my entries and take the goofy ones with a grain of salt.
KathyC
03/11/2005 01:58:50 AM · #19
I comment when I can. I hope my comments will be recieved in the vein that they are intended. I comment on shots that move me in some way. I comment on shots that I feel an emotional attachment to. I also comment on shots where I see a great potential for improvement. I simply comment. I am always amused though when I see a thread such as this and people say things like: I would comment more but I don't want to hurt anyones feelings. I would comment more but I'm afraid someone will pm me back with negativity. I would comment more but I'm not qualified. I have learned as much about photography by looking at others works, good and bad, and commenting on what I like, don't like, would like to see changed, what works, what doesn't work as I have by actually taking photos. Commenting (spelled critiqueing) has made me improve. Commenting has also made me realize that there are many small minded individuals out there that refuse to realize that there is room for improvement in their work. Does that hurt ME in any way? Not really. In fact I find humor in the small minded. That is why I refuse to comment behind a veil of anonymity. I will not hide my head under a bag, either by my choice or the choice of photographer. That is why I always sign my comments with my trademarked 'TC'. Please PM me during or after a challenge and tell me how wrong I am about your photograph. Please. The more negative the better. I haven't had a good laugh in a while...

Message edited by author 2005-03-11 01:59:31.
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