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09/02/2002 01:22:18 PM · #1 |
I have a sub 5 score and only 1 comment after 64 votes. At this rate I will have a sub 5 score and 4 comments after 250 votes.
If the photograph has problems let me know. I want to become a better photographer. Lately I get sub 5 scores with mostly nice comments about my images. If the images have problems let me know. It is frustrating trying to improve whenever those that score my photographs very low do not leave suggestions for improvement.
I realize this is a complaint as old as DP Challenge. Believe it or not this phenomenon does affect the way I view my work and the work of others. It also affects the way I view commenting and scoring. Why should I put myself out to comment appropriately or spend adequate time scoring if I'm not going to get that in return?
It is tough to be as objective as I originally was when I began DP Challenge. I assume my images are as good as the next person's unless told otherwise. Because I receive very little legitimate feedback from people concerning the errors and mistakes they notice in my images, I have noticed that I have began scoring photos based upon how I feel they rate with my images as opposed to how they rate on the 1 to 10 scale. If the truth were known I would say many other DP Challenger's are beginning to score this way also.
Bob
* This message has been edited by the author on 9/2/2002 1:51:28 PM.
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09/02/2002 01:34:39 PM · #2 |
Originally posted by rls_2002:
I have a sub 5 score and only 1 comment after 64 votes. At this rate I will have a sub 5 score and 4 comments after 250 votes.
If the photograph has problems let me know. I want to become a better photographer. Lately I get sub 5 scores with mostly nice comments about my images. If the images have problems let me know. It is frustrating trying to improve whenever those that score my photographs very low do not leave suggestions for improvement.
I realize this is a complaint as old as DP Challenge. Believe it or not this phenomenon does affect the way I view my work and the work of others. It also affects the way I view commenting and scoring. Why should I put myself out to comment appropriately or spend adequate time scoring if I'm not going to get that in return?
It is tough to be as objctive as I originally was when I began DP Challenge. I assume my images are as good as the next person's unless told otherwise. Because I receive very little legitimate feedback from people concerning the errors and mistakes they notice in my images, I have noticed that I have began scoring photos based upon how I feel they rate with my images as opposed to how they rate on the 1 to 10 scale. If the truth were known I would say many other DP Challenger's are beginning to score this way also.
Bob
Yep, Bob.
I have a 4.414 score and two comments. One says he/she gave me a ten, the other that it may not really be a "candid" shot.
Go figure.
* This message has been edited by the author on 9/2/2002 1:33:34 PM. |
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09/02/2002 01:37:14 PM · #3 |
I have 7 comments, but the comparison you said applies to mine too.
One says he/she gave me a ten, the other that it isnt a "candid" shot.
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09/02/2002 01:41:46 PM · #4 |
| These fine and fair minded folks handing out annomous low scores without comment are likely just incompent dolts with bad attitudes.A knowledgable photographer will rarely score a photo as low as the average score in DPC.On other, more professional photo web sites, a score below 5 might be considered a serious put down, but in DPC it is SOP. The comments of those who score others so low are probably not worth the time to read.Consider your sub5 score more of a comment on those who do the judging rather than on the quality of your own work. |
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09/02/2002 01:45:23 PM · #5 |
I think with all the discussion ... that was to be expected.
I thought the 'pencil' would be a pretty straight definition.. oh my god ;-)
Good luck guys
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09/02/2002 01:51:15 PM · #6 |
A lot of people go back and comment after they are done voting. I know I comment while I vote on some, and with others I revisit it during the week when I know I have time to focus on the wording. My last submission had 4 comments until Saturday and Sunday night, when 8 more arrived.
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09/02/2002 01:53:16 PM · #7 |
I comment as I vote on ones I feel I can help with... and then I go back and comment on all 10s, 9s, and 8s at the end. Also I try to comment whenever I leave a 1, 2 or 3, explaining the low score.
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09/02/2002 02:33:08 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by rapsiii3:
These fine and fair minded folks handing out annomous low scores without comment are likely just incompent dolts with bad attitudes.A knowledgable photographer will rarely score a photo as low as the average score in DPC.On other, more professional photo web sites, a score below 5 might be considered a serious put down, but in DPC it is SOP. The comments of those who score others so low are probably not worth the time to read.Consider your sub5 score more of a comment on those who do the judging rather than on the quality of your own work.
I've read several of your posts now and it sounds like your ego has been hurt by some low scores.
The fact is, people can vote as low or high as they wish, based on whatever criteria they wish. The only item in the rules concerning the criteria to be used for voting is this: "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." Notice it says users are asked. Even this is not a hard firm rule on how we should vote.
Does the numerical score count so much and hurt your ego so badly?
I guess all of us non-professionals are dragging the experts like you down. I feel so bad.
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09/02/2002 02:39:45 PM · #9 |
| I wish I could pull my photo. I broke my own prime directive, and entered I photo I know is severly flawed. It is really just a waste of everyone's time. Sorry. |
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09/02/2002 03:20:32 PM · #10 |
I do think that some pictures are really bad and deserve a 2 or 3. really.
The fact of submitting a picture is not by itself a proof of quality or interest.
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09/02/2002 03:36:08 PM · #11 |
Originally posted by iggy386:
Originally posted by rapsiii3:
[i]These fine and fair minded folks handing out annomous low scores without comment are likely just incompent dolts with bad attitudes.A knowledgable photographer will rarely score a photo as low as the average score in DPC.On other, more professional photo web sites, a score below 5 might be considered a serious put down, but in DPC it is SOP. The comments of those who score others so low are probably not worth the time to read.Consider your sub5 score more of a comment on those who do the judging rather than on the quality of your own work.
I've read several of your posts now and it sounds like your ego has been hurt by some low scores.
The fact is, people can vote as low or high as they wish, based on whatever criteria they wish. The only item in the rules concerning the criteria to be used for voting is this: "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." Notice it says users are asked. Even this is not a hard firm rule on how we should vote.
Does the numerical score count so much and hurt your ego so badly?
I guess all of us non-professionals are dragging the experts like you down. I feel so bad.
[/i]
Maybe some people have forgotten that art is completely subjective. Even the technical aspects of art can be subjective. The capturing of an image by the manipulation of light can produce infinite possibilities. That coupled with the artists perspective, creativity, and intent will produce a broad range of results which in turn allows for very interesting pieces of work. When one considers that no two people see things in exactly the same way then it's understandable that some pieces are going to appeal more to one individual and less to another. This is why for me at least, art is exciting. Critiquing can be a great way to examine how others perceive your work. It can also assist an artist in looking at his own work in new ways and expanding the mind. All critiquing should be taken with a grain of salt because ultimately it's the artist who is the final judge. Other peoples’ judgments’ only matter if your piece is for sale and you need the money to eat.
Oh, and scores, well, how else are we going to judge a subjective piece within a loosely defined criteria?
By the way, I’ve been lurking around looking at images and I want to say there are some really talented people here. I’ve been surprised by some of the interpretations of the subject. I love that! To all of you, great work.
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09/02/2002 03:45:48 PM · #12 |
The real question is: do you really want the advice?
You have to consider the source. Check out other forums, etc. and see the work there.
I always look at who rated me and gave me a comment and then i look at their work to see if they know what they're talkinga bout :) otherwise, it's a moot point.
I also find other forums such as photo.net have more people willing to comment than just rating.
Originally posted by rls_2002:
I have a sub 5 score and only 1 comment after 64 votes. At this rate I will have a sub 5 score and 4 comments after 250 votes.
If the photograph has problems let me know. I want to become a better photographer. Lately I get sub 5 scores with mostly nice comments about my images. If the images have problems let me know. It is frustrating trying to improve whenever those that score my photographs very low do not leave suggestions for improvement.
I realize this is a complaint as old as DP Challenge. Believe it or not this phenomenon does affect the way I view my work and the work of others. It also affects the way I view commenting and scoring. Why should I put myself out to comment appropriately or spend adequate time scoring if I'm not going to get that in return?
It is tough to be as objective as I originally was when I began DP Challenge. I assume my images are as good as the next person's unless told otherwise. Because I receive very little legitimate feedback from people concerning the errors and mistakes they notice in my images, I have noticed that I have began scoring photos based upon how I feel they rate with my images as opposed to how they rate on the 1 to 10 scale. If the truth were known I would say many other DP Challenger's are beginning to score this way also.
Bob
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09/02/2002 03:46:53 PM · #13 |
Remember - in the end, a handful of 1s and 2s doesn't make a lot of difference out of 250 votes - as has been stated many times before, almost everybody gets some 1s and 2s
here's a hypothetical - as the challenge closes, you receive 250 votes that average 5.000 - amongst those votes were 4 1s and 4 2s - if each one of those 8 people had given you an extra 2 points, your average would now be 5.064 --- which for THIS particular week would have lifted you from 96th to 89th IF they didn't likewise elevate their votes for everyone else
If i let it get to me, I'd be tearing out what's left of my hair - I have yet to enter a picture that hasn't received at least one vote of 1 - each one has also received at least one 10 --- did they deserve either? who knows --- I've learned to live with it
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09/02/2002 04:14:40 PM · #14 |
Originally posted by iggy386:
Originally posted by rapsiii3:
[i]These fine and fair minded folks handing out annomous low scores without comment are likely just incompent dolts with bad attitudes.A knowledgable photographer will rarely score a photo as low as the average score in DPC.On other, more professional photo web sites, a score below 5 might be considered a serious put down, but in DPC it is SOP. The comments of those who score others so low are probably not worth the time to read.Consider your sub5 score more of a comment on those who do the judging rather than on the quality of your own work.
I've read several of your posts now and it sounds like your ego has been hurt by some low scores.
The fact is, people can vote as low or high as they wish, based on whatever criteria they wish. The only item in the rules concerning the criteria to be used for voting is this: "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." Notice it says users are asked. Even this is not a hard firm rule on how we should vote.
Does the numerical score count so much and hurt your ego so badly?
I guess all of us non-professionals are dragging the experts like you down. I feel so bad.
[/i]
You will notice that while I comment on a flawed system with the hope of raising some awareness, I have managed to keep my ego in check just enough so as to avoid insulting any individual with my snide remarks. When you turn the discussion away from DPC and into a personal attack you simply prove your own quality."The fact is" that people can have a reasonable discussion without resorting to rudeness to any individule and still get their point across. There is a huge differance between saying something like,"The voting system is sometimes abused by rude nincompoops..." and "You are a rude nincompoop...." |
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09/02/2002 04:57:24 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by rapsiii3:
Originally posted by iggy386:
[i]Originally posted by rapsiii3:
[i]These fine and fair minded folks handing out annomous low scores without comment are likely just incompent dolts with bad attitudes.A knowledgable photographer will rarely score a photo as low as the average score in DPC.On other, more professional photo web sites, a score below 5 might be considered a serious put down, but in DPC it is SOP. The comments of those who score others so low are probably not worth the time to read.Consider your sub5 score more of a comment on those who do the judging rather than on the quality of your own work.
I've read several of your posts now and it sounds like your ego has been hurt by some low scores.
The fact is, people can vote as low or high as they wish, based on whatever criteria they wish. The only item in the rules concerning the criteria to be used for voting is this: "While voting, users are asked to keep in highest consideration the topic of the challenge and base their rating accordingly." Notice it says users are asked. Even this is not a hard firm rule on how we should vote.
Does the numerical score count so much and hurt your ego so badly?
I guess all of us non-professionals are dragging the experts like you down. I feel so bad.
[/i]
You will notice that while I comment on a flawed system with the hope of raising some awareness, I have managed to keep my ego in check just enough so as to avoid insulting any individual with my snide remarks. When you turn the discussion away from DPC and into a personal attack you simply prove your own quality."The fact is" that people can have a reasonable discussion without resorting to rudeness to any individule and still get their point across. There is a huge differance between saying something like,"The voting system is sometimes abused by rude nincompoops..." and "You are a rude nincompoop...."[/i]
LOL... "These fine and fair minded folks handing out annomous low scores without comment are likely just incompent dolts with bad attitudes" I'd say you started it, but I'll stop it here. Have a nice day. :) LOL |
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09/02/2002 05:05:11 PM · #16 |
| Aw gee Iggy, don't give up so easily! There are few thing more stimulating than a fine verbal tussle on a dull afternoon! I'm glad you got a laugh. It was ment ot be funny. And you have a nice day to...Rob |
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09/02/2002 05:12:20 PM · #17 |
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09/02/2002 07:03:12 PM · #18 |
| Favorite Photo submitted so far, sub 5 score, over 100 votes without a comment. |
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09/02/2002 07:33:11 PM · #19 |
I think I prefer that there is a smiley when people a trying to be funny. This way .. there is less risk to offend people.
Lionel
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09/02/2002 07:37:24 PM · #20 |
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09/02/2002 07:42:37 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by Agamemnon:
Favorite Photo submitted so far, sub 5 score, over 100 votes without a comment.
Maybe all this talk of scoring problems has galvanized the wicked weilders of the nasty ones. Nice people unite! Cast out this dunder headed scourage.
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09/02/2002 08:18:00 PM · #22 |
Up to 98 votes now ... Score barely over 5 ... Received only this one comment 9/2/2002 (12:48:00 AM) - Would have liked it better a little closer-up ... I know it's only Monday ... Hate to keep whining... But how am I to know what my photograph is lacking? How am I to know what makes it unappealing to those that score it lower than 5 which should represent average?
I am trying to appeal to those voters that habitually score images low. Whenever you vote, ask yourself why you feel a particular image deserves a low score of 1, 2, 3, or 4. Try to put into words why you think the image is unappealling. Submit these words as a tactful, well written comment to the photographer. Maybe the next photograph she/he submits will be more appealing to you and others because the photographer heeds your words of wisdom.
I am not trying change the way voting is done. Every person's vote is theirs to cast as they see fit. Just throwing out some ideas that might help make DP Challenge a little better.
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09/02/2002 08:27:29 PM · #23 |
| Keep up the effort! It could use some improvement. You are on the right track. |
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