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DPChallenge Forums >> Web Site Suggestions >> Forcing Comments on low votes
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09/02/2002 02:49:15 AM · #1
Would it be possible to force a comment on votes of 3 and below? i.e the vote wouldn't accept if the comment box was empty! I feel very few entries justify the ammount of ones that they receive.
09/02/2002 02:53:11 AM · #2
This has been suggested before. I can imagine right now the single word, rude, token comments you would get from the kinds of people who are that dismissive of the photos. Maybe it would be good to try, but I don't predict success.
09/02/2002 02:55:49 AM · #3
Yes, this has been suggested before and I think it is a great and necessary idea. Sure, those same people will be tempted to make rude comments as well but, ha, ha, those creepy 1 and 2 voters will lose their anonymity.
By all means, let's do it!
09/02/2002 02:56:37 AM · #4
They won't lose their anonymity either... the scores are not posted unless they post them with the comment...
09/02/2002 02:58:34 AM · #5
And I would like to add a suggestion to the one offered above:

Photographers should have a chance to vote bad voters off the board, i.e. prevent them from making votes altogether. This could be done if those 1 and 2 voters will no longer be anonymous and if all they do is give silly votes and nerdy comments, there should be such mechanism to deprive them of their voting privileges.
09/02/2002 03:02:06 AM · #6
Make a change so that 1 and 2 votes can only be accepted if a comment is made and the vote is shown with the comment.
09/02/2002 03:28:01 AM · #7
This seems to be a basic theme. Maybe a standard of voting should be posted as part of the voting process. Seems to me that we have some really low balling voters here who think a low score is fair for any target. The average score I get on other web sites is higher than the winners get here. And on the other sites the photos are better. The scores would be higher indeed if low ball scores were required to justify, but the rankings would not necessarly change.Let's face it, a winning photo in a field of 200 should score more than 7.8 even in a non professional contest.
09/02/2002 04:51:53 AM · #8
I'm quite shocked that I didn't get any 1s or 2s this week. Based on the fact that even the super good photos seem to get a few 1s, I figured there were a few people that just voted everyone a 1 to bring the average down :) But apparently that's not the case.

I did, however, get 10 3s.
09/02/2002 09:20:54 AM · #9
But that's just it - HOW does a top photo, or even well executed average photo end up getting 1's? I am left baffled every week. A 1 seems to signify a photo that looks like you accidentally pressed the shutter button when you were looking around, or something equally bad. ;-) Hmmmm. Yet, obviously clear, focused, well done photos get 1's and 2's? Ah well.

09/02/2002 09:42:24 AM · #10
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:
But that's just it - HOW does a top photo, or even well executed average photo end up getting 1's? I am left baffled every week. A 1 seems to signify a photo that looks like you accidentally pressed the shutter button when you were looking around, or something equally bad. ;-) Hmmmm. Yet, obviously clear, focused, well done photos get 1's and 2's? Ah well.



Karen..c'mon..we're both adults and been around the proverbial "human nature" block.

There are people doing things for reasons other than honest evaluation of a photo's technical or artisitic impact. That is why I have always wanted all the votes and their owners to be shown at the end of voting each week.

A lot of this lowballing stuff would slow down if we did this.


* This message has been edited by the author on 9/2/2002 9:41:48 AM.
09/02/2002 09:43:42 AM · #11
Originally posted by Journey:
And I would like to add a suggestion to the one offered above:

Photographers should have a chance to vote bad voters off the board, i.e. prevent them from making votes altogether. This could be done if those 1 and 2 voters will no longer be anonymous and if all they do is give silly votes and nerdy comments, there should be such mechanism to deprive them of their voting privileges.


Just because someone votes consistently low, that doesn't mean they aren't voting how they feel. And, if they always give all submissions a low score, it doesn't impact the final ranking of the photos in the challenge.

Participation here is voluntary and there is a large variety of voters. There are always going to be some you disagree with or don't like.

Mark
09/02/2002 10:32:06 AM · #12
I'm of the opinion that forcing comments on certain scores will simply make it so everybody avoids using those scores. In other words, "If you're going to make me comment on 1s and 2s, fine, I just won't use 1s and 2s so I can avoid having to comment -- I'll hand out a ton of 3s instead." Which means we'd then have to force comments on the 3s. Then the 4s, 5s, 6s and so on.

Personally, I use the 1s and 2s. But I also seem to hand them out in some kind of proportion to the 9s and 10s. Until recently (due to time constraints) I've always commented on both extremes in my voting. However, I very rarely justify why I gave a score. Even though I will point out things (again, in both extremes) that I think might have made the photo that much better, I would never say, "This photo got a 1 from me because..." and it seems like that's what people really want to know.

I also like the anonymity of the voting. I don't think it's too hard to look at a person's voting average, compare it to the number of votes cast, and figure out what kind of voter you've got. My voting average hovers somewhere between 5 and 6. Makes sense to me if I start with 5-6 as an average photo, 10 as exceptionally good, and 1s as exceptionally bad (or outside the challenge IMO). I suppose it is still possible for someone to have a decent voting average and to be monkeying with the scores. Maybe someone is intentionally voting all bad photos 10s and all good photos 1s. We're gonna get weasels like that no matter what. And I think if the voting weren't anonymous, there are other honest voters (such as myself) who wouldn't feel comfortable enough voting our mind and would superficially inflate our scores so we don't look like bad guys/gals. The "I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings" idea.


* This message has been edited by the author on 9/2/2002 10:32:28 AM.
09/02/2002 11:05:02 AM · #13
Personally, I made a point of commenting on EVERY photo that I scored three and under in the candid challenge. It seems only fair.
09/02/2002 11:15:46 AM · #14
Actually, I would prefer open voting. Would have no trouble defending my votes. In the last few weeks I have given my vote and name with the comments (about 50-60 comments a week); also did so when my vote was a low one or the comment was negative overall.

The biggest sin I commit is I tend to rush the last 30 pictures to vote in my first round of voting.(on a slow modem it takes a long time; even if you do it in 3 sessions with multiple windows). The idea is that I would revisit those lateron and give them a more careful look. Yet, I find that every week there are a few decent pictures that I hadn't looked carefully at, and they got stuck in an unfair 4-5 vote and got overlooked by me lateron in the week.
09/02/2002 11:58:26 AM · #15
While open voting might inflate some scoreing, it might also force a higher degree of honesty. Giving a 1 or 2 to a picture that deserves such harsh judgment should cause no discomfort.Clearly, if the submission does not meet the challange, is of poor quality, totaly uninteresting or down right offensive than it is an insult to the viewer and other participents. But to give a 1 or 2 to a photo that does meet the challange, is of average quality, and is even mildly interesting, is equally insulting. If you can't be rude openly, don't be rude at all.Low scoring is not a measure of good taste or a discerning eye. It is more the measure of an inflated ego tinted with ill will.Unless one is harsh and unkind by nature, honesty does not require insultingly low scoreing.
09/02/2002 12:22:39 PM · #16
Originally posted by Patella:
I'm of the opinion that forcing comments on certain scores will simply make it so everybody avoids using those scores......

....I also like the anonymity of the voting. I don't think it's too hard to look at a person's voting average, compare it to the number of votes cast, and figure out what kind of voter you've got.


Well, I could make an educated guess at the good photos..vote them low and make an educated guess at the lower scoring photos..rate them high and my average would still be good :-)

Guys, ermmm..I work with High School kids a couple days a week...there is not a trick that you can't be prepared for or you will be owned >:-/

09/02/2002 12:54:57 PM · #17
I am always amazed that the winners and the top pictures score some ones and twos consistently. Have these members no shame? These are stunning photos in any context and it seems to me to be nothing short of an insult to mark John Seltzers exquisite photo with a one not to mention the other winners.
09/02/2002 01:53:35 PM · #18
Part of the beauty of something like the DPChallenge is the wide variety perspectives we're all exposed to.
This is not limited to the actual photographs submitted, but also the titles of the photos, the votes handed out, and the comments made.

Why do some people not submit photos?
Why do some not submit for certain challenges?
Why do some submit to every challenge?
Why do some comment and others not?

If someone wants to give a low score and their motive is correct, fine. They should not be obligated to explain it. Differing opinion is a risk any submission faces.
Those who may have bad motive (and none of us really have a right to question another's motive) will tire of whatever it is their attempting, fail, and move on.
The system seems to work pretty well as it stands, it's like a liquid, it seeks it's own level.
09/02/2002 04:11:05 PM · #19
Yeah, you're correct. Time to move on. Voting integrity seems to play second fiddle to whines and other minor laments. Gee, let's all be friends and award each and every player a big, big score. It just isn't fair to judge a lousy picture as being.., well, you know (go ahead, say it!) OK, L*O*U*S*Y*
09/02/2002 05:20:49 PM · #20
So this week you take the definitive all time portrait of green bean. But I don't like green beans! You score a 1 for your "lousy" piece of crap photo.That is like, oh, go ahead and say it:*B*S!
09/02/2002 05:45:42 PM · #21
Originally posted by hokie:
Well, I could make an educated guess at the good photos..vote them low and make an educated guess at the lower scoring photos..rate them high and my average would still be good :-)

I did mention such a possibility in my post. ;-)


09/02/2002 06:15:27 PM · #22
Originally posted by Patella:
Originally posted by hokie:
[i]Well, I could make an educated guess at the good photos..vote them low and make an educated guess at the lower scoring photos..rate them high and my average would still be good :-)


I did mention such a possibility in my post. ;-)[/i]

I must have gotten blinded by the extra quantity of posts today :-)

We have a lot of new victims..errr.. ahem.. participants here >:-D Woohoo!!




* This message has been edited by the author on 9/2/2002 6:14:31 PM.
09/02/2002 07:38:39 PM · #23
Originally posted by rapsiii3:
So this week you take the definitive all time portrait of green bean. But I don't like green beans! You score a 1 for your "lousy" piece of crap photo.That is like, oh, go ahead and say it:*B*S!

was it posed or candid?
09/05/2002 01:54:45 PM · #24
When I don't have to go through 171 images this would be a good idea. People are gonna leave crappy comments or they will just start changing their voting patterns. Make the lowest score a 3 and people will start scoring 4. What good is that gonna do? If you force people to comment you won't get what you really want.

Originally posted by sulamk:
Would it be possible to force a comment on votes of 3 and below? i.e the vote wouldn't accept if the comment box was empty! I feel very few entries justify the ammount of ones that they receive.

09/05/2002 02:06:20 PM · #25
The thing I get out of this site is the ocaasional good advice to help improve my photography (I need all I can get!). If I come 200th or 20th it dosen't really matter so I don't care how many 1's, 2's or 3's I get. If a person thinks my picture is crap thats his/her view and thats fine. We all like different things, it would be boring if we didn't. Finishing in a high position or even coming 1st in DPChallange would be great but so is just 1 other person enjoying a picture you have taken, surely.....am I right?
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