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DPChallenge Forums >> Photography Discussion >> Prints + Math = AAARGH!
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03/26/2003 01:41:15 PM · #1
Too much MATH! I have been trying to figure out how create a printable file, but I can't do it without getting a migraine.

It occurs to me that there HAS to be an easier way. Something insanely simple like: step 1, step 2, step 3, You're Done!

I am not an engineer, I am not a programmer, and I am not a mathematician... truth is, I don't really like dealing with math at all.

So, while I would really like to be able to sell some prints (but only up to 8x10...I don't want to stretch my 3.2 mp any further than this) until someone can simplify this process I'm not up to it.

I need a "Creating DPCPrints for Dummies" tutorial. (John and Patella have both done fine jobs with their tutorials, but it still makes my brain ache!) A program or a formula that I can plug numbers into, one that figures ALL this stuff out for me would be ideal.

You see, I would like to offer uncropped versions of my shots that fit the 8x10 format. I am not willing to crop at all. I realize that this would require the use of borders and or text to pad the image so that it fits the size, and I'm cool with that. Also, it must drop into a ready made 8x10 frame and look kick ass.

I'm not really lazy. Just incompetent. Can anyone help...
03/26/2003 01:51:32 PM · #2
I am very frustrated, but not particularly by dpcprints. Why oh why are there still so few photofinishers that offer a wide 4:3 ratio range? 90% of all digicams out there shoot in that ratio. :(
You are punished for framing well in your camera. Always the need for cropping and adding borders.
Save yourself the time, I know some who offer 4:3 sizes in my area, but they are either to far away or try to print large prints with small files (as in, the max res we will process for your 20x15cm is....and when you calculate it, you end up with <150dpi..)
03/26/2003 02:49:43 PM · #3
Originally posted by Azrifel:

Why oh why are there still so few photofinishers that offer a wide 4:3 ratio range? 90% of all digicams out there shoot in that ratio. :( ... I know some who offer 4:3 sizes in my area, but they are either to far away or try to print large prints with small files (as in, the max res we will process for your 20x15cm is....and when you calculate it, you end up with <150dpi..)


Wow. I'm with mcmurma. That's Greek to me! (Sorry to all of our fine Greek photographers!)
03/26/2003 04:06:02 PM · #4
I'm totally with you mcmurma! Count me into the "migraine" group. Math just ain't my thing, and until I have the time to invest in really figuring this stuff out, I just can't do prints!
03/26/2003 04:14:14 PM · #5
And count me in. I have to go through 2 different programs to get my the right size. It takes up so much time. There should be something simplier, there has to be. grrr...
03/26/2003 04:30:35 PM · #6
I feel all of your fustrations! I had a chat with the Great John Setzler and he helped explain a lot. The problem i'm having is, to get a print size of 11x14 or larger, i have to set my camera on the largest size setting which is 2560x1920 and it takes up a lot of space on my computer since the files are now as large as 5mb after i edit them!
03/26/2003 04:37:07 PM · #7
Since I don't have a membership what aspect ratios does the printing service support?

I've had a problem trying to get decent prints with the 4:3 ratio and this is what I did to fix it. Of course your mileage may vary but this works fine for me.

1. My camera is only 2 megapixels so the max I can shoot is 1600x1200
2. I created a photoshop file that has the frame and guides for me with a 200 pixel border around each side
3. I copy and paste my original image into the frame

That creates a 2000x1600 which is a 1.25 aspect ratio now.

Message edited by author 2003-03-26 16:40:13.
03/26/2003 04:55:33 PM · #8
When you don't want to crop and an easy way to get it ready for 8x10;

The S30 makes an 2048x1536 photo (=4:3).
When you only want a white border one or two sides, create an empty base file with the size of 2050x1640 pixels (=4:5 or 8:10). It needs the extra two pixels to get the right aspect ratio, half pixels don't excist. :)
Open both, copy the 2048x1536 photo (like you copy text, don't create a new file) and close it.
Now paste it into the empty 2050x1640 base file. You could put it in the middle or at one of the two sides. Save it at the highest jpeg quality possible. Sharpen it if you wish to and save it as a new file. Upload that one.

When you also want white borders at the top and bottom, you will have to seek the balance that suits you. Decide the height, for example 1700 pixels. Multiply that by 1.25 (5/4) and you get 2125 width. Paste the copy into this....... etc.

When you don't want white borders. Give the base file the color you want before you paste the photo into it.

edit:
Whatever you do, keep the photograpic part at its original aspect ratio (exception for cropping). Don't stretch it or anything like that.

Message edited by author 2003-03-26 17:25:07.
03/26/2003 05:05:32 PM · #9
And if you want to know if the file you created is any good as far as print quality goes:

When you have created the 2050x1640 photo with borders;

2050/10 inches is 205 pixels per inch, also referred to as dots per inch that you can feed a printer. So we talk about it as 205 dpi.
1640/8 has the same outcome, 205dpi. Thats about in the middle of 150 and 300dpi quality. Should get you a decent 8x10.

But imagine you are doing this with a 1600x1200 photo (4:3). You create a base file of 1600x1280 (4:3), do the pasting etc.

Is this enough for an 8x10?
Well, 1600/10 inches = 160 dpi. It is suitable at the low end of quality, but only a bigger original file could get you something better. I don't really see the point of increasing the size of this image.



Message edited by author 2003-03-26 17:22:13.
03/26/2003 05:12:59 PM · #10
Originally posted by mcmurma:

Too much MATH! I have been trying to figure out how create a printable file, but I can't do it without getting a migraine.

It occurs to me that there HAS to be an easier way. Something insanely simple like: step 1, step 2, step 3, You're Done!

I am not an engineer, I am not a programmer, and I am not a mathematician... truth is, I don't really like dealing with math at all.

So, while I would really like to be able to sell some prints (but only up to 8x10...I don't want to stretch my 3.2 mp any further than this) until someone can simplify this process I'm not up to it.

I need a "Creating DPCPrints for Dummies" tutorial. (John and Patella have both done fine jobs with their tutorials, but it still makes my brain ache!) A program or a formula that I can plug numbers into, one that figures ALL this stuff out for me would be ideal.

You see, I would like to offer uncropped versions of my shots that fit the 8x10 format. I am not willing to crop at all. I realize that this would require the use of borders and or text to pad the image so that it fits the size, and I'm cool with that. Also, it must drop into a ready made 8x10 frame and look kick ass.

I'm not really lazy. Just incompetent. Can anyone help...



I was in the same boat until I went and downloaded Irfanview (For Free) www.irfanview.com

I then went to DPCPrints and printed the Print Sellers Tip Page. It has a list of the Aspect sizes. In Irfanview go to Image/Resize/Resample and use your list from the print sellers page to get the right sizes needed. (“Set new size” along with the DPI is right there)
Due not resample them to large :)


worked for me…..
03/26/2003 07:08:55 PM · #11
Thanks, Connie, I'll head over to irfanview. I think there is no simple way, but there are simpler ways :)
03/26/2003 07:37:11 PM · #12
Originally posted by Azrifel:



Is this enough for an 8x10?
Well, 1600/10 inches = 160 dpi. It is suitable at the low end of quality, but only a bigger original file could get you something better. I don't really see the point of increasing the size of this image.


Actually it comes out to 200dpi which is why I pad my 1600x1200's with 200px border to make it a good print


Message edited by author 2003-03-26 19:38:17.
03/26/2003 08:00:46 PM · #13
Thanks for the input everyone. I will review these suggestions more closely when I get a chance, some of them look pretty interesting!
03/28/2003 01:35:43 AM · #14
Thanks, this is some good information. Now how do I do all this in one program?
03/28/2003 01:55:41 AM · #15
Sonifo, I have yet to figure how to easily do it in a single program... But I have it narrowed down to two! LOL.

But really, after reading through the suggestions I had something of a revelation. It's a simple thing, but I am fixing to upload my first print, so I hate to discount it too much. It was the realization that the answer to the question "How many pixels are an inch?" is simply, "As many as you think you need for a nice print!"

I can't explain it, but once I focused on nailing that one aspect of this whole mess, the rest became a little easier. Who knows, if I get any more revelations I might have to write that piece about "Prints for Dummies" myself. I can see it now... "DPCPrints for Dummies" by a Dummy!
03/28/2003 02:16:51 AM · #16
Ok so I purchased one of my prints to see how they turned out and it looked great.. my only issue was the perfectly placed border and time spent getting the aspect ratio to be 1:50.0 the print was still cropped on the bottom and left hand side, leaving it lopsided and my name at the bottom of the print to be cropped off abit. so now I have added another 1/4" to the border to compensate just incase it happens again. So if your name or other text is at the bottom of the frame, you might want to move it up just incase. Other than that the quality is great.
03/28/2003 02:22:48 AM · #17
Thx Ronin, that's good to know because I have been concerned that such a thing might happen. And I am still struggling with exactly where I want to "sign" my prints. I have almost decided to sneak it into the lower right-hand corner of the photo itself. It would be very small, and very discreet, so that you really have to get on top of it to read it.

On the other hand, I could opt to leave it inside the border... I dunno. I have already "signed" the first one in the corner of the photo. But I may change my mind for future uploads.

03/28/2003 06:03:43 AM · #18
Can anyone explain how to put an equal border on a print. I have been adding a large border and then cropping, which has worked fine so far, but the border is never equal. For example, if I have a 4X5 print and I want to add a quarter inch border to all sides, how do I do it and keep the correct aspect ratio??
03/28/2003 10:47:54 AM · #19
You cannot take a rectangle and add the same amount to each side and maintain aspect ratio (unless it's a square).
If you want to create a print at 4x5 with a 1/4" border, you have to crop/size the image to 3.5x4.5, then add the border.
Or, you could take the existing 4x5, "select all," and apply a 1/4" stroke (75 pixels at 300 dpi), but that will cover part of your image (the part the cropping step would have removed).
In general, I crop the photo to look best, then increase the canvas size to make a border fitting the next-largest print size.

Message edited by author 2003-03-28 10:55:41.
03/28/2003 10:53:09 AM · #20
Originally posted by Natasha:

Can anyone explain how to put an equal border on a print. I have been adding a large border and then cropping, which has worked fine so far, but the border is never equal. For example, if I have a 4X5 print and I want to add a quarter inch border to all sides, how do I do it and keep the correct aspect ratio??


What program do you have? It is possible to make the borders even if you have the right program.

edit to say. I don't have to crop my photo to get a border the right size in PSP. I also use picture it and when I put a border on it I just resize it by clicking on the border and moving it to the size I want. I then resize my photo by clicking on the corner of the photo and moving it to fit the border. Hope this helps.

Message edited by author 2003-03-28 10:55:53.
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