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01/31/2005 10:27:05 AM · #1
How do you know when you are improving at your photography skills and when you were just lucky with a good shot?

01/31/2005 10:30:42 AM · #2
I think this site is a good measure of that. I realize there is lots of factors of 'playing to the audience'.. so improving may be shown to a greater or lesser extent than what it REALLY is... but generally...

if you last five entries are higher than your avg score you are improving...
01/31/2005 10:31:03 AM · #3
I've gotten lucky with quite a few of my good shots, but improving your skills has to do with composition and lighting. When you know how to control those to get a beautiful result, you're improving.
01/31/2005 10:39:08 AM · #4
Originally posted by leaf:

if you last five entries are higher than your avg score you are improving...


I disagree. I think voting here is terribly skewed, and not because of how my photos rate. I just think that people tend to rate "stock photo" shots higher then anything else. My photos have been rating low lately because people don't agree that they fit the challenge parameters. That doesn't mean they're poor pictures.

At least I hope not! :)
01/31/2005 10:47:27 AM · #5
Originally posted by leaf:

I think this site is a good measure of that. I realize there is lots of factors of 'playing to the audience'.. so improving may be shown to a greater or lesser extent than what it REALLY is... but generally...

if you last five entries are higher than your avg score you are improving...


No way. Scores at DPC mostly have nothing to do with photography skills, imo. They just measure appeal, with everything else being very distant second. A factor, yes, but a not a very significant one.

I suppose i would say if you start getting those 'lucky shots' more often, then your skills are definitely improving. Seriously.
01/31/2005 10:50:59 AM · #6
I think you just know, and seeing your own score ... should help judge your progress.

For me, I took a break for about a month at the end of the year and beginning of this one as per my profile note.

This is what I have in my profile ' I've decided to take a little brake from every challenge because I'm not getting the votes I would like to see, but I like my photos that I enter. I'm going to take a step back, reading, learning and taking photos and working on my PAD each day.'

My Photo a Day has really helped me develop but DPC has really helped me grow.

Let me tell you that since I've started getting into it again, and not rushing into every challenge. I've been getting scores on my photos above my average and currently am in 2 challenges that will be my highest ones so far.

So, take it easy. Don't rush and don't enter just because you can, satisfy yourself with the photo and if that works you will get a positive feed back from the viewers. With the feed back (comments) and votes, you should get a feeling if you are getting better or not (but note that DPC Voters don't always represent the quality of work since you always get a few low scores out of the blue from angry voters that really don't judge your photo but just give low scores).

Trust in yourself and look back at your previous shots and you will notice the difference , simple things like setup, composition will jump out.

Good Luck and everyday you take a photo you improve, that's my theory anyways.

:-)

My Two Bits...
01/31/2005 10:52:58 AM · #7
I wouldn't use dpc as a measuring stick for skill, although a great deal of skill is required to do good here.

I think atsxus and yurasocolov have pretty much expressed my thoughts as well.
01/31/2005 10:59:37 AM · #8
My scores have steadily been dropping as I submit things that I know meet the challenge, but people are just not 'getting it'.

Regardless, I think my photography has improved considerably from simply staying involved with the challenges, I've just chosen not to hit people on the head with an obvious subject matter. Explore your talents and don't let the scores get in your way of producing the images that you want to produce.
01/31/2005 11:26:19 AM · #9
"Good" is relative. I've learned that much since finding this site. Here, stock-style, pretty, smooth, colorful images tend to be the higher rated shots, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But since joining, I've been exposed to such a wonderful RANGE of good shots...from the pretty stock type shots to the gritty, grainy, urban type shots, which CAN BE and ARE good shots too.

To be honest, I believe my skills have improved 100% since joining, even if my average is still mathematically less than average. I think that both of my ribbon shots were lucky ones. At the time they were taken, I didn't really know what I was going for, I just happened to get something that worked. Now, I think I do know what I am trying to accomplish most of the time when I click the shutter. I also know that now, I'm much more willing to take risks, experiment more, and try new things (challenge scores notwithstanding), which can only be a good thing IMHO. Whether anyone else "gets it" or not is pretty much irrelevant as long as I understand how and why I got what I did.

Knowing what "sells" to the DPC voters isn't necessarily the end-all-be-all of what is or isn't good photography. It's just one of a plethora of measuring sticks you can use. :o)
01/31/2005 11:41:14 AM · #10
Originally posted by Karalew:

How do you know when you are improving at your photography skills and when you were just lucky with a good shot?


Getting "lucky" with a good shot usually means that you were ready for it. Which, I interpret to mean you're a better photographer. A big part of photography is just having a good trigger finger.

:-)
01/31/2005 11:41:55 AM · #11
You would only be lucky once in awhile. Anyone can do that. But if you're making images that please you and please others on a fairly consistent basis, you're improving your actual skills.

But don't use DPC as a measure of that at all. Tastes and voting here tends to be very narrow minded and follows some very set patterns. Stray a bit from that and you're doomed. Revenge voting is also a big factor here on even the best images.

Your best bet might be to post photos at a site where there is no competition, that way you are getting truly honest opinions and from a much broader audience.
01/31/2005 12:47:24 PM · #12
I am in agreement with those who say that DPC is not the standard by which to judge photography. However, more interesting to me is that it has helped me see better the difference between well-done photography and photographs that simply have an emotional hold on me. I can still thrill at some of my own shots that just have "something" for me, but I can at the same time now, realize they are only a hint, no where near what a pro could do if so inclined, or many of the folks here on DPC. Take a look at a site like photo.net or one of the other fine ones on the web, and you will even see that the best of DPC can only barely holds its own. So my point? Be happy if you see progress in your ability to create more and more images that really make a light come on for you. Secondly, perhaps be also improving in your ability to appeal to others' tastes. Then decide just how far it is important for you to take your photogrpahy where you will be happy with it. Is it for your soul, or to sell to others, or win contests? Success is defined differently in each of those cases. And all are valid. For me, it is for the soul.
01/31/2005 12:58:51 PM · #13
I tend to fall in love with a special photo that I just took. For a few days, I look at it often, and feel rather pleased with myself. Then I move on to another photo.

When I come back to those photos a few weeks later, I usually find them "ok", but nothing to get very excited about. With distance, I manage to be more critical.

Here comes the bit that measures improvement (and a really good photo) in MY books:
coming back to it and STILL loving it!!!!!
01/31/2005 12:59:48 PM · #14
Originally posted by Beetle:

I tend to fall in love with a special photo that I just took. For a few days, I look at it often, and feel rather pleased with myself. Then I move on to another photo.

When I come back to those photos a few weeks later, I usually find them "ok", but nothing to get very excited about. With distance, I manage to be more critical.

Here comes the bit that measures improvement (and a really good photo) in MY books:
coming back to it and STILL loving it!!!!!


VERY well said, Karin!!!!! I agree!
01/31/2005 01:09:37 PM · #15
I think that when you can look at a good picture, then go out and take one of your own that compares favorably, you will have developed at least the basic technical skills.

Take a look at one of your own pictures, then go out and improve on it, and you will know whether you are getting better or not.
01/31/2005 01:28:35 PM · #16
Originally posted by laurielblack:

"Good" is relative. I've learned that much since finding this site. Here, stock-style, pretty, smooth, colorful images tend to be the higher rated shots, which is not necessarily a bad thing. But since joining, I've been exposed to such a wonderful RANGE of good shots...from the pretty stock type shots to the gritty, grainy, urban type shots, which CAN BE and ARE good shots too.

...

Knowing what "sells" to the DPC voters isn't necessarily the end-all-be-all of what is or isn't good photography. It's just one of a plethora of measuring sticks you can use. :o)

Laurie, that sums it up nicely.

For me "improvement" was noted when I reached a point where I felt confident in submitting a photo that I knew (or was fairly certain) would not do much better than average. I knew I had arrived (...although the 'journey' never really ends, does it?) when I started submitting images that challenged me to stretch my skills and expand my experience in a satisfying way. As an example, the current "Light" challenge is doing exactly that. My photo is sitting at about 5.3 after 65 votes, but the technique and concept is something I had never tried before.

...So, my "improvement" is manifested by feeling good about doing new things with my camera. Before DPC, and in the early stages here, I didn't take such chances.

Now it's "points be damned!"
01/31/2005 01:36:57 PM · #17
Originally posted by lenkphotos:

...So, my "improvement" is manifested by feeling good about doing new things with my camera. Before DPC, and in the early stages here, I didn't take such chances.

Now it's "points be damned!"


That is what I wish I heard more of. That's when we get to see all the real talent shine through and evolve.
01/31/2005 01:41:03 PM · #18
You know when your skills are improving when you look at a photo and realize that you 'made' it happen. If you achieved a goal with a photo, that is a start. If you implement a technique of some sort intentionally with success, you are improving. If you understand why a technique works or doesn't, you are improving. If you know how to achieve an effect that you see, you are improving. If you know how to improve something you see, then you are improving.

If you never do much more than point your camera, press the button, and hope for the best, the hit/miss results will not change much.

I'll agree once again with the comments here about not using DPC to guage your success. This is a contest and a game. You can, however, use DPC to improve your skills. Whether or not your photography improves with those newly acquired skills is another story. DPC can teach you good photographic technique by the brute force method. You can also take the initiative to learn it on your own in a much shorter time.

The photographic process *ends* with you looking at your finished photo. All the other steps that happen prior to that are where the learning pays off.
01/31/2005 01:50:39 PM · #19
Gary Player once said - The more I practice the luckier I get. Maybe the same applies to photography as well?
01/31/2005 02:08:29 PM · #20

:-) I really like that Quote.
Originally posted by walbland:

Gary Player once said - The more I practice the luckier I get. Maybe the same applies to photography as well?
02/01/2005 10:06:43 AM · #21
I think that if you are achieving the effect that you intended then and only then are you improving. If for example your intention is to have a very sharp photo and it is sharp then you have acheieved your objective. If you are trying to achieve an abstract look and with more practice like your results more often you are improving. The only person that can determine if you are improving is the person setting the goals and I hope that you would be setting them for yourself. I myself am striving for something a little different than a sharp photo and often pay in my scores. At the same time if the comments are what I predicted then I may have acheied my goal anyway. I'm not capable of pleasing everyone but if I please a few I'm happpy

Message edited by author 2005-02-01 10:07:52.
02/01/2005 10:12:22 AM · #22
Thanks for starting this thread Karalew. There is some wonderful insight here.
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