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08/24/2002 08:23:37 PM · #1 |
The pencil challenge has produced the most high quality shots of any challenge so far, I think. I have some favorites but there are over 80 shots that I really like a lot. Very hard to pick a short list or a clear cut winner.
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/25/2002 9:40:43 PM. |
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08/24/2002 09:21:27 PM · #2 |
Awwww that's easy...just pick mine...lol
I agree, there are many really nice images in this challenge. I bet it will be close again. At 4.9 mine won't be anywhere near the top...lol...I'm getting used to it though...keeps me humble.
Gracious Pictures
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08/24/2002 10:33:22 PM · #3 |
Hmmm, ...people have been saying that a lot in the forums this week I notice. I do like a lot of the photos this week, and you can tell that a lot of effort and creativity went into meeting the challenge, but I'm not sure I'd agree that the overall quality is better. What I found is that where normally most of the photos fall into the 4,5,6 range with most being 4-5, this week for me most fell into the same 4,5,6 range but with more 5s and 6s than 4s. I have an on-going inner struggle with how to vote for a photo that is a damn good challenge interpretation, but not necessarily a good photo. My current method is not to let it affect my scoring, but to comment constructively. It just doesn't seem right to allow non-photographic creativity affect the rating on a photo.
I liked the pencil challenge less than most people did (or else those people just aren't speaking up) primarily because there was little room for abstraction -- which I enjoy so much in photography. There are a handful that managed to include pencils blantantly without making me feel like I was looking at a photo of a pencil created for a pencil challenge. I think that makes a stronger photo or at least one that appeals to me more.
My scores fell this way this week:
10s - 1
09s - 4
08s - 9
07s - 25
06s - 30
05s - 56
04s - 41
03s - 13
02s - 4
01s - 1
It seems the group is fairly evenly divided between the people who like the straight-forward-no-questions-about-it challenges and those that prefer the interpretive-stretch-your-imagination challenges. I think I'd put myself in the latter category.
:-) Just speaking up since most posts have agreed with the original post this week (or have recurred in other threads). I'll play devil's advocate this time.
Dawn
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08/24/2002 11:46:36 PM · #4 |
I find many people are hardest on photos in the voting when they are newest to submitting photos themselves.
I know I came in with very high expectatations when I first started some 5 months ago but..with experience submitting came a lttle more understanding of how difficult it can be to shoot based on a topic and a deadline versus just picking some nice photos out of your bag to show on a site like pbase.
Deadline shooting a topic for a contest in open (but anonymous) voting has got to be the hardest type of photography next to professional deadline photography you will face.
I agree about this week providing some of the best photos I have seen in a while and have given many more 10's, 9's and 8's than usual. |
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08/24/2002 11:57:02 PM · #5 |
Fantastic work guys! I've given out twelve 10s so far and I haven't finished voting yet.
aelith |
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08/25/2002 12:04:45 AM · #6 |
| Hmmm.... I gave out a fairly small number of 10s (for me), considering the number of submissions. And I wasn't tempted to give out any more than those. I just found it difficult to discriminate between 5,6,7 quality photos. Most of the photos struck me as a unappealing, but I just don't respond to technically good closeup photos of objects. It has to have something else in it. So my favourites have been the eyeliner pencil shots with eyes (I gave them both 10), the ones with pencils in hair (one of them got a 10 from me), photos that used pencils to create a mood or describe an emotion, etc. Some of my other 10s are just really crazy photos of pencils, like the one with the sliced pencil and the one with the pencil in the ashtray. I probably shouldn't be saying all this until the results are in, but there isn't much time left to influence the vote :P |
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08/25/2002 06:07:44 AM · #7 |
For the pencil challenge my votes fall as follows:
10 -2
9 -1
8 -7
7 -25
6 -51
5 -42
4 -44
3 -8
2 -3
1 -2
Average vote = 5.32
I agree that this challenge has produced some truly wonderful images. I too like there to be some abstract, and I am not as keen on photos where a pencil has just been slapped in to make the photo meet the challenge - I vote higher for those where the pencil is integral to the shot. And of course, where I think the shot is attractive, well taken and I like it.
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08/25/2002 08:05:29 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by just-married:
There are a handful that managed to include pencils blantantly without making me feel like I was looking at a photo of a pencil created for a pencil challenge.
Yeah, where are the images that people would have taken anyway because they would make interesting photographs? I can see some, but for the most part I see contrivance. Formally, the majority of the photographs lack everything but a pencil and that's just not enough. Looking over all the challenges, I thought Corporate World was pretty uninspired but the pencils take the biscuit.
Oh, and still too many stupid titles.
And not nearly enough devil's advocates
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/25/2002 8:09:47 AM. |
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08/25/2002 02:21:25 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by grahamgorman:
And not nearly enough devil's advocates
Actually there are, they're called critics :-)
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08/25/2002 05:31:51 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Originally posted by grahamgorman:
[i]
And not nearly enough devil's advocates
Actually there are, they're called critics :-)
[/i]
Oooh, good one Hokie.
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08/25/2002 08:31:55 PM · #11 |
ha! Very funny. ;-)
I don't think I'm a critic though. Not in the negative sense of the word, anyway. I think rather that I have high standards. That said, I don't meet them myself most of the time, but I'd rather be told that - and judged accordingly - than have a photo that is crap (wink) made out to be more than it is. For example, the photo I submitted to the Pencil challenge is not great -- I knew that submitting it -- and I'm glad to see it score at about where I would have rated it myself (4.8). It validates my own eye for what's good, which is just as important as placing well, IMHO.
I agree with you, hokie, in that since I've been submitting (this will be my third week) I have the tendency to consider as I vote the difficulty on the photographer's part of acheiving the desired effect, especially in it relation to the challenge, but that it something that I FIGHT AGAINST in myself. It's one thing to empathize in the comments, but it seems wrong (in a very loose sense of that word) to grade a photo better because it WANTED to be better than it is. If that makes any sense.
Also, there's so much talk of scales and how people rate photos -- I think there's a difference in that some people seem to rate them in comparison to each other (which makes sense for a contest site) where others rate them in comparison with an ideal photo (which is more where I fall).
Dawn, still playing devil's advocate |
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08/25/2002 09:31:38 PM · #12 |
:-) I speak from experience about modifying my voting methods.
I'd never suggest giving 10's to photos just to be easy ;-)
But I think there is a sliding scale based on ability.
I just finished watching the Little League World Series.
The baseball players at that level are rated in regards to their expected talent level at little league levels. Not in relation to perfection of Major League players. That encourages them AND provides realistic expectations.
It's just that sometimes I get the feeling that we grade a lot around here based on Major League standards. We can have 10's, 9's and 8's here and still need improvement as far as comparing to Ansel Adams. :-)
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/25/2002 9:30:47 PM. |
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08/25/2002 09:41:16 PM · #13 |
| Did anyone else notice one of the entries is a repro. of an old advertisement? I could be wrong but I think I have seen a very similar photo before. They did a GREAT job. I hope it isn't DQ'd |
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08/25/2002 10:06:25 PM · #14 |
| Did anyone notice that if you squint real hard at one of the images it turns into the point of a pencil? |
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08/25/2002 10:13:06 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by aelith:
Did anyone notice that if you squint real hard at one of the images it turns into the point of a pencil?
I don't understand this concept of squinting at an image to see something that isn't really there... I have seen these comments before... I guess I'm too artistically challenged :)
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08/25/2002 10:19:53 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by aelith:
Did anyone notice that if you squint real hard at one of the images it turns into the point of a pencil?
I think you've been staring at them too long aelith..better go to bed now :-)
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08/25/2002 10:20:26 PM · #17 |
| You loose the details and see just the basic shapes. Sort of like super posterizing or abstracting. *shrug* |
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08/25/2002 10:22:14 PM · #18 |
[
I think you've been staring at them too long aelith..better go to bed now :-)
[/i]
lol right!
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08/25/2002 10:44:39 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by hokie:
:-) I speak from experience about modifying my voting methods.
I'd never suggest giving 10's to photos just to be easy ;-)
Oh, I don't think for a minute that you would. I've read your posts; I generally think they're insightful.
Originally posted by hokie:
It's just that sometimes I get the feeling that we grade a lot around here based on Major League standards. We can have 10's, 9's and 8's here and still need improvement as far as comparing to Ansel Adams. :-
A very good point. Caused me to think for a good little while. Here's my trouble with that: I don't think there's really a specific skill level that defines the users of dpchallenge. Meaning I think we've got some tee-ballers (myself included, LOL), some little leaguers, and some college players all tossed in together. And because we don't know whose photo we're voting on in advance, it is hard to judge one against his/her own ability. I think if we judge against a common ideal, people's scores will improve over time. And my own comparison in performance NOW against my FUTURE performance is my best measure of growth (which I look forward to greatly.)
I think you're right in that judging against Ansel Adams as an ideal is more than a bit unrealistic. Wink.
As a rule, I have found that I usually have about 15 photos that score 8-10. Out of curiousity, do you think that is too few or adequate?
Dawn
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08/26/2002 02:10:25 AM · #20 |
From what I've read, there are as many different ways to score as there are voters. I consider 10 a perfect, print-worthy shot so I don't give many - maybe 1 or 2 per challenge. I usually end up having to go back and pull up some pics so that I try to end up with ten in the 7-10 range.
I've decided to use the scale more as an ideal. I guess that's why my average tends to be low. I tend to give quite a few 4s, but I do vote consistently (which is what's important). |
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08/26/2002 05:34:01 PM · #21 |
hokie, still interested in your reply here. The flurry of forum activity keeps this off the front page, but don't forget me. LOL
Dawn |
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08/26/2002 06:10:09 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by just-married:
hokie, still interested in your reply here. The flurry of forum activity keeps this off the front page, but don't forget me. LOL
Dawn
Sorry, I usually don't search the forums...:-)
What I mean about judging based on skill levels, etc....
I cannot speak for everyone here, this is just my little one person opinion and it only applies to my personal feelings. So..that disclaimer out of the way.
If I were truly talented..as in getting paid for my photography kind of talented..I would not be here.
Why? Simple...time. I would be spending my time and talent earning a living taking photos..not competing against guys like me who are just getting into digital photgraphy on a hobby level with point and shoots.
So..what I am saying is ..in my opinion..and I know some folks will disagree..there are several levels of skill above online photo contest sites. As a matter of fact, you won't see ultra high level photgraphers even putting their photos online for critique..much less competition.
Most of what we see in print is done by pros at a very high level. But I think we get jaded because there are so many good images to see everyday from a million sources we tend to forget just how hard it is to get a great shot (meaning magazine caliber or gallery level) for the average hobby enthusiast...especially from a point and shoot digicam.
I think we have some absolutely amazing photographers here who are very consistent in their quality of image. But they represent the top 5-10% of the photographers at this site.
Most of the folks I see here (myself included) are more like perfectionist hobby level. We know what we like, we work hard at getting great images but we don't get a lot of calls from the magazines or galleries.
I just hope we don't grade on the scale of pro's who have tens of thousands of dollars of equipment and extreme time and skill on their side.
Anyways...art is subjective anyway so talk of grading and scales is sorta weird on a photography site..most photographers I know would not subject their effort to something like this.
But..thats just me..and as Dennis Miller says.."I could be wrong" :-) |
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08/26/2002 06:38:29 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by hokie:
But..thats just me..and as Dennis Miller says.."I could be wrong" :-)
He does ? Does he know you ?
I wish I could get famous people to talk about me...
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08/26/2002 06:55:37 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
Originally posted by hokie:
[i]
But..thats just me..and as Dennis Miller says.."I could be wrong" :-)
He does ? Does he know you ?
I wish I could get famous people to talk about me...
[/i]
:-)
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08/26/2002 07:03:50 PM · #25 |
See, that's why I like your posts so well. They are very thought out. I'll have to chew on your idea for a while. Not sure if it changes things for me, but it is a good point.
Dawn |
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