| Author | Thread |
|
|
08/22/2002 09:33:23 AM · #26 |
Stars and Stripes
I am an American
One Nation Under God
I am an American
Don't Tread on Me
I am an American
With Liberty and Justice
I am an American
Greed is Good
I am an American
Ask Not what your country can Do..
I am an American
Oh say can you See
I am an American
I have seen..the Promised Land
I am an American
From sea to shining Sea
Author....anonymous
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:09:56 AM · #27 |
Originally posted by rapsiii3:
Well, I'd like to take a picture of a baby with its finger stuck in an apple pie, surrounded by stuffed animals and American flags, sitting on a bed of flowers and being licked by a puppy, in front of a church, at sunset, just as the ships are sailing out to sea! I could offend everybody equaly with the pure innocense, beauty, and good feeling of it all. Maybe I could squeeze an old hippie beating up on a crippled veteran into the background, just for good measure. Heck, I don't like pencils or horses.
The thread went a different direction than I expected after this quote. FWIW, I thought that this quote was extremely funny. I took it as toungue-in-cheek.
Dawn |
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:29:09 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by lisae:
rapsiii3, you're just flame throwing. No one could possibly read my post and interpret it as anti-American.
Lisa: I believe what you meant to say here is: "Nationalism sucks!" 8)
I honestly can't see how we got from porno/non-porno to pro-America/anti-America. I think I got whiplash from reading this forum.
The way I see it, though, is if we were intended to be ashamed of our bodies we would have popped out wearing some kind of jumpsuit. Instead, we were completely naked and I think it's fine. That's my opinion. I won't be posting a nude photo of myself and really don't know anyone who wants to get naked in front of a camera, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't try if I thought it would make for a great photo and if it would fit the challenge.
As for the posting of the flag picture and American vs. anti-American sentiment, I will just say this in our defense as Americans: we're not used to sharing. I really didn't even realize how "international" this website was until my 2nd or 3rd challenge (although I was smacked in the face with that reality when I realized that "New Potatoes" is a regional phrase, apparently). You've got to admit that it's not often there is such a blend of diverse cultures on one website/newsgroup/chatroom/whatever. Because of time zone differences, cultural differences, language differences, and, frankly, interest differences, the Internet is a very segregated place -- voluntarily so! You probably don't find a ton of Americans on websites about the World Cup (although it is more popular here than you might think), for example.
I don't think anyone here is blatantly anti- anyone else. I just think we've got to take our blinders off and realize there ARE a lot of different opinions -- and pretty much all of them are just as valid as the last.
--Rob
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:42:36 AM · #29 |
Whats great about art sites is that ideas should be able to cut across cultural, national and even ethical boundaries.
My little post of the poem was written by a friend of mine who is not from this country. He is an immigrant from over in the old Czech republic. He wrote that poem one day as a result of the history lessons he has to take to get his citizenship (and watching American movies/history reels).
I thought it appropriate because sometimes we forget that nationalism in America often comes from folks who aren't even from here originally.
Anywhoo...to get back on topic..I am all for nudity. I think that should be our next challenge.. A self portrait nude. I am in training for it right now with 50 sit-ups a day >:-D |
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:44:40 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Whats great about art sites is that ideas should be able to cut across cultural, national and even ethical boundaries.
My little post of the poem was written by a friend of mine who is not from this country. He is an immigrant from over in the old Czech republic. He wrote that poem one day as a result of the history lessons he has to take to get his citizenship (and watching American movies/history reels).
I thought it appropriate because sometimes we forget that nationalism in America often comes from folks who aren't even from here originally.
Anywhoo...to get back on topic..I am all for nudity. I think that should be our next challenge.. A self portrait nude. I am in training for it right now with 50 sit-ups a day >:-D
My sony's lens is not wide angle enuff for me to participate in that challenge :(
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:47:04 AM · #31 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
My sony's lens is not wide angle enuff for me to participate in that challenge :(
Dude...at least your attributes can't de described in 2 words "Pinhole Camera" <:-O
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:51:20 AM · #32 |
Uh huh.... "fat ass" is two words :)
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:53:44 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Uh huh.... "fat ass" is two words :)
You two are crackin' me up.
I vote "no" on the self-portrait though. My retinas are still detached from the ugly naked pencil guy. I don't know how much more I could handle.
Serves me right for being up past midnight on a Sunday.
Rob
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:57:59 AM · #34 |
The flag thing is kinda interesting. I've lived in two countries during
periods when they've 'gone to war to defend attacks on their soil'
Once during the Falklands war in the UK and now in the US with the recent
'war on a small group of terrorists' (I can't bring myself to jump
on the media lie of a war on terrorism)
It seems to me that US nationalism is all tied up in the flag.
You pledge allegence to it, the national anthem is all about it,
the whole cultural identity seems tied up in that little piece of
fabric. I think that is why people get so uptight about flag burning
here, or when people take pictures of it and the various opinions come
out. It's not about the flag as such, it is just about the whole
US cultural imperialism that's tied up in that flag.
The UK just doesn't rally behind the union jack like that - it doesn't
mean as much or the same thing - probably partly because each part of
the UK has their own flag maybe. We certainly don't pledge anything to
the flag or tie up our cultural feelings in the flag. So it
doesn't mean much to us as our cultural identity is expressed in
different ways. I don't think any other country in the world ties
their whole cultural identity into their flag in the way the US does. |
|
|
|
08/22/2002 10:58:17 AM · #35 |
| so just on a quick poll (that i'm sure im going to regret asking :-P), who hated my 'dividends' photo? and who loved it? just curious how this breaks down... |
|
|
|
08/22/2002 11:10:22 AM · #36 |
Yeah mag...I liked it :-) It felt very 'Monica Lewinsky" -ish.
I think when nudes are done in color you might find more of a backlash than in black and white. It seems black and white tells new people "this is art, chill out" while color often makes them feel like "this is Playboy..join hands and sing We shall overcome!"
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 11:27:39 AM · #37 |
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
The flag thing is kinda interesting. .....cultural identity into their flag in the way the US does.
I don't know for sure Gordon but heres my take.
The United States is a modern day country. Meaning if the American indians were responsible for the United States we would be more like other parts of the world.
But we are an immigrant country. Built entirely from the hopes of people pissed off at their countries of origin. You think Russia sucks? Come to America. Been the victim of an ethnic cleansing? Come to America. Tired of tanks running over you in main street? Come to America.
The only thing we have in common is this idea of personal freedom. The right that we are all created equal. And all we got to symbolize that is the American Flag.
Other countries may not have this feeling because most may have been built from a more ancient civilazation. Many folks in Europe can trace their ancestors back to the beginning of recorded history..and their origins may only be a few leagues from where they live.
In America it's all about the idea. Screw family trees. Screw ming dynasties, Tudor fueds, and all that lineage crap. Its all about the idea.
So when people burn the American flag its more saying something like..screw human rights, screw liberty.
I know recently the U.S seems like this big Imperial power. I make some comparison to the United States and Great Britain of the late 1700's. We better watch that stuff.
But...the dream is alive here like no other place on earth...and that is special.
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 11:27:39 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by magnetic9999:
so just on a quick poll (that i'm sure im going to regret asking :-P), who hated my 'dividends' photo? and who loved it? just curious how this breaks down...
I didn't have a problem with the nudity aspect, I like breasts after all ' - ) But they were very unnatural looking. Due perhaps to the extremely red naughty bits. (I wondered... did you employ lipstick to color them?)
My score, though, (5) was based more on how well I felt the subject fit the challenge. I thought the connection was somewhat vague. For me, at least, they just didn't fit my idea of corporate world.
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 11:48:51 AM · #39 |
Originally posted by hokie:
In America it's all about the idea. Screw family trees. Screw ming dynasties, Tudor fueds, and all that lineage crap. Its all about the idea.
[/i]
The interesting flip-side is everyone wants to talk about where they
are from. Everyone is fourth-generation this or that. I keep having
American's tell me that they are Scottish and I end up scratching my
head and find out that it is because 5 generations back someone on one
side of their family came from Scotland. Here was me thinking they
were American.
It is a bit weird but I suspect it is searching for a history that
such a new country just doesn't have. I'd never experienced anything
like that in Europe but then, obviously that's because we all live
in castles.
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 11:55:58 AM · #40 |
We learned a very good lesson from webster's deffinition of pencil. I just thought I'd give another deffinition.
Porn: Slang, see pornography.
Pornography: writings, or pictures or films etc. that are intended to stimulate erotic feeling by by description or portrayal of sexual activity.
I don't know about anyone else...but the naked pencil guy did NOT stimulate erotic feeling in me. And by this exact definition anyone who thinks that just plain nudity is porn, then it must be stimulating something in their mind.
I think there is a point when we need to seperate facts from opinions. I'm not trying to start something. Exactly the oposite actually. By the FACTS The naked guy wasn't depecting anything sexual (or erotic, for that matter) with the pencils, leave him alone. (not defending him or anything, I'm still scarred too) By the FACTS The horse, we have found to be pencil worthy and also non pornographic. leave it alone.
Now, if the naked pencil guy was in the photo WITH the horse...we'd have problems. Stick to the facts, and we'll all get along a little better.
I have spoken my peace. (lets see how much hate mail i get).
Take care.
~Heather~
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:12:43 PM · #41 |
Would I be wrong to say that there is a level between nude and pornographic?
An image doesn't necessarily have to be pornographic in nature to be offensive and inappropriate...
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:14:35 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
Originally posted by hokie:
In America it's all about the idea. Screw family trees. Screw ming dynasties, Tudor fueds, and all that lineage crap. Its all about the idea.
The interesting flip-side is everyone wants to talk about where they
are from. Everyone is fourth-generation this or that. I keep having
American's tell me that they are Scottish and I end up scratching my
head and find out that it is because 5 generations back someone on one
side of their family came from Scotland. Here was me thinking they
were American.
It is a bit weird but I suspect it is searching for a history that
such a new country just doesn't have. I'd never experienced anything
like that in Europe but then, obviously that's because we all live
in castles.
Well....aside from a bit of a snide (or wry?) intonation Gordon..I'll adress the issue of family trees or more directly, peoples search for their ancestry.
I assume the fourth generation stuff was aimed at me if not pardon..just a coincidence.
Anyway, that was not an attempt to say "Hey..I'm kin from the old country...let's be buddies" It was just an interesting little side note to a remark you made about being from outside the U.S. and my origins..just trivia..nothing more.
And I suspect a lot of folks treat their search for ancestral origins as simply that..trivia for discussion at family picnics and reasons to hang funny coats of arms and things on the wall.
Me? My only strong claim to heritage that I care about is I am a Virginian and my concern for my local quality of life :-)
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/22/2002 12:14:24 PM. |
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:17:59 PM · #43 |
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
We learned a very good lesson from webster's deffinition of pencil. I just thought I'd give another deffinition.
Porn: Slang, see pornography.
Pornography: writings, or pictures or films etc. that are intended to stimulate erotic feeling by by description or portrayal of sexual activity.
I don't know about anyone else...but the naked pencil guy did NOT stimulate erotic feeling in me.
Aye, and there's the rub - pornography is in the eye of the beholder.
I dare say that there are some unfortunate people in the world who do
find the horse picture pornographic.
Unlikely as it sounds after seeing the picture, there could also be
people who find the shot of the naked tubby guy with his big pack of
crayons to create erotic thoughts in them.
I've noticed some the disqualification requests for the horse picture
complaining about beastiality and stuff like that, and it really made
me wonder what on earth those people were seeing in it that I was
missing. It was a horse, which like about 50% of all horses, happened
to have a penis. It wasn't doing anything exciting with it. Nobody
else was doing anything exciting with it, but in some people's minds
they were seeing something portraying beastiality. I guess they have
a better imagination than I have.
Other people just found the picture distasteful or offensive, which is
an entirely different thing to finding it erotic.
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:22:39 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by hokie:
Well....aside from a bit of a snide (or wry?) intonation Gordon..
[/i]
It certainly wasn't snide, it may be construed as being wry but that's
just my nature. It wasn't even meant to be directed at you, or your
comment earlier. It really is extremely common - as soon as any
American I meet in person finds out I'm Scottish they are searching for
the kith'n'kin relationship ties back to the old country.
I've even had some American's claim to be more Scottish than I am,
because of <blah, blah blah> It is just bizzare how often this
comes up. I'm not offended or bothered by it (well appart from the
idiot that was more Scottish than someone who was born there) I just
find it strange why people here are always trying to be from somewhere
else, rather than saying they are American and proud of it. The
sort of 'born and bred' view of nationalism.
Its just different in the US.
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:26:21 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
We learned a very good lesson from webster's deffinition of pencil.
I failed to see this lesson. The definition of pencil I read did not coincide with anything I saw in the horse photo. The 'Entomology' of the word PENCIL indicated that it was derived from a word that would have made the horse photo fit the challenge...
At best, it's a FAR stretch that would make that photo meet this challenge...
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:32:15 PM · #46 |
Yeah, I guess some people have feet and shoe fetishes. Can't remove all the photos of feet and shoes. But I think the fact that the definition says "description or portrayal of sexual activity" that, I think is pretty clear. I mean, if you have a photo of a shoe...so be it. but if you have a pic of a shoe portraying a sexual activity, (although it would be hilarious) it constitutes the "definition" of porn. However, most people would view it as humor. I know I would. I guess my point was, that neither the guy nor the horse were portraying a sexual activity, as per the text book definition of porn. Anyway, like you said, although it does have a definition, most people use opinion.
There is the saying "to each, their own".
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
And likewise, someone is entitled to have an opinion of that persons opinion.
Gotta catch of on my commenting. Now that my son is feeling better, and we didn't have to go to ER, I'm back and better than ever! (only cause I noticed my score went up. LOL just kidding)
Take care all!
~Heather~
I also want to make clear that i'm not taking sides on anyones opinion, just simply stating my own. |
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:34:29 PM · #47 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
[i]We learned a very good lesson from webster's deffinition of pencil.
I failed to see this lesson. The definition of pencil I read did not coincide with anything I saw in the horse photo. The 'Entomology' of the word PENCIL indicated that it was derived from a word that would have made the horse photo fit the challenge...
At best, it's a FAR stretch that would make that photo meet this challenge...
[/i]
I'd disagree, it makes it about one step away from the entirely literal
meaning of the challenge. After all, this is a photography site shouldn't
we be allowed some leaway for artistic interpretation of the subject ?
Now, if you want to discuss if it is an interesting picture, or well
taken or any of the artistic qualities then maybe I'd have a different
opinion, but it meets the challenge pretty easily.
It's also a slang usage e.g., the 'this'll put lead in your pencil'
phrase.
* This message has been edited by the author on 8/22/2002 12:47:13 PM.
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:35:11 PM · #48 |
Originally posted by GordonMcGregor:
I just find it strange why people here are always trying to be from somewhere else, rather than saying they are American and proud of it. The
sort of 'born and bred' view of nationalism.
Its just different in the US.
I can understand what you are saying. But you know..it's not just you running into other folks trying to tie in their roots to European ancestry.
I travel a lot on the East Coast. Mainly between Atlanta and New York.
A lot of conversations center around "Where are you from...where did you go to school" type of stuff.
And I hear a lot of "I had a great grandmother that lived in Richmond, Virginia..do you know so and so" or "I went to Virginia Tech..do you remember so and so?".
I thinks it's just human nature to try and look for common ground.
You are just getting the Scottish version :-)
I also agree people don't have the roots in their local communities like they used to.
I am university educated and specialize in Media Relations. Not exactly something you can make a million dollars doing in Southwest, Virginia!
But I am from here..my ancestors settled in the Blue Ridge from Europe as did my wifes (She's the Scot in our family tree..). And I plan on being buried in the Blue Ridge. This attitude is very uncommon in modern day "move where the money is at" society.
In America nowadays I agree. People are very seldom 'from' where live. :-/
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 12:35:26 PM · #49 |
Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Originally posted by hbunch7187:
[i]We learned a very good lesson from webster's deffinition of pencil.
I failed to see this lesson. The definition of pencil I read did not coincide with anything I saw in the horse photo. The 'Entomology' of the word PENCIL indicated that it was derived from a word that would have made the horse photo fit the challenge...
At best, it's a FAR stretch that would make that photo meet this challenge...
[/i]
Sorry setzler, I don't have a websters, I was just going on the 2 statements above, stating that it fit the definition. I actually have an oxford and it says nothing about it being derived from anything. My apologies. I'll stop listening to people now. LOL
|
|
|
|
08/22/2002 01:21:15 PM · #50 |
Hokie - Places like Australia and New Zealand have also been recently settled by people from all over the world. There isn't much difference, historically speaking, between Australia and the US, except that we negotiated our independence from the UK and are still a constitutional monarchy. Most of our population is also formed from people who left Europe to start a better life. However, most were initially convicts, and then working class people wanting to escape the class system. These groups focussed all their efforts on creating a perfectly classless society, a paradise for workers, etc. Egalitarianism was the ultimate ideal.
But the upshot of all that here was that we like people to be modest, mediocre, ordinary, not to make a big fuss out of anything. We have things called the "tall poppy syndrome" and a "cultural cringe". We don't run around saying we're great or powerful, because we patently aren't... we'd much prefer to laugh at ourselves. We don't admire people who achieve in any endeavour other than sport. Wealth is seen is kind of vulgar here.
So although there's a lot of similarity, the kind of patriotism that Americans invest in their flag, symbolism, ideology, etc. is very bizarre to us. Our flag has the Union Jack in one corner, which I think is one reason why we don't invest much emotion into it. It's not entirely our flag. So kids here don't get brought up with that whole idea of saluting it, praying to it, whatever. I just don't "get" flag photos, and I never will, because I wasn't born in the US and I'll never move there for a better life - life here is good enough as it is :). |
|
