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 12/08/2004 01:48:36 PM · #26
My best landscape shots are taken with Olympus 5050 C,with Oly's very sharp F1.8 lens !
Rebel with Canon 20 mm F2.8 or Sigma 24-135 F2.8-4.5 are simply no match for that.Maybe Canon 10D's metering and some 1300 $ L lens can do the same thing.



Message edited by author 2004-12-08 13:52:43.
 12/08/2004 01:51:05 PM · #27
Originally posted by GoldBerry:

P.S. in regards to talk about 'kit lenses' aren't they made to be a cheap starter lens? Isn't it the point that they work, but aren't great? Like the rebel kit lens, not great, but it was under $100 so who cares!


Canon does that.
The Nikon 'kit' lens is a pretty high quality lens with good performance for the money paid for it. The only problem I have with it (AF-S DX 18-70 ) so far is distortion at the wide-end, but PTlens gets rid of that. Corner to corner (!) sharpness is very good at all apertures (including wide-open), haven't seen chromatic abberation yet (I have with my 50), no flaring yet, it focusses fast (AF-S), no vignetting and I can override it manually right away (like Canon USM). Something I wouldn't mind to use for a long time to come. My other lenses are the AF 50 f1.4 and the AF-S VR 70-200, so I am not comparing it to crap glass. But compared to the 18-55 EF-S it is not a cheap lens.
 12/08/2004 02:14:17 PM · #28

note that the 'Kit' from Nikon also costs more than the 'Kit from Canon.

Originally posted by Azrifel:
Canon does that.
The Nikon 'kit' lens is a pretty high quality lens with good performance for the money paid for it. The only problem I have with it (AF-S DX 18-70 ) so far is distortion at the wide-end, but PTlens gets rid of that. Corner to corner (!) sharpness is very good at all apertures (including wide-open), haven't seen chromatic abberation yet (I have with my 50), no flaring yet, it focusses fast (AF-S), no vignetting and I can override it manually right away (like Canon USM). Something I wouldn't mind to use for a long time to come. My other lenses are the AF 50 f1.4 and the AF-S VR 70-200, so I am not comparing it to crap glass. But compared to the 18-55 EF-S it is not a cheap lens.

 12/08/2004 06:10:03 PM · #29
intially I thought you were meaning real DIY good-for-fun-but-nothing-else lenses like the ones I pointed out in this thread like this here:

12/09/2004 06:56:39 PM · #30
Well I own the FZ10 and am not happy with it. The noise above ISO makes the 200 and 400 range unusable. That "great" lens is coupled with an terrible autofocus system that can't keep up with my kids in sports. Images also seem very soft for the most part and alot of them are difficult to get sharpened up in PS using the unsharp mask. I can't wait until I can afford the new Minolta 7D so I can give this thing to my wife. Oh, and I do have high quality Minolta glass!
 12/09/2004 07:02:17 PM · #31
I just bought a DSLR and I got what I was looking for... Big time

I had a DSLR-Like before and allthough the lens was great, it was very limiting.

I just bought the rebel and with that I bought the well priced 28-135mm IS lens from canon and with that I bought a 50mm f1.8 wich is cheap to say the least.

This gives me the posibility to take great handheld shots at daytime with the 28-135 IS and insane portraits with the 50mm 1.8. And lets not forget the power of the 28-135 IS at night when my DSLR-Like was clearly outmatched becouse of its grain problem.

I am very satisfied with my choice, and now I have the dynamics I want with the Rebel, and next I will go out and buy a zoom lens or maybe a wide lens, all depending on what kind of shots I wanna do.

This I could not get with a DSLR-Like machine, not in the same way atleast.

my two cents :)
 12/09/2004 08:30:17 PM · #32
just about every photo in my profile for the challenges was taken with a junky Quantaray 28-200mm f3.5-5.6 lens. the pics from when i first joined were from my 707, and there are a few taken with my junky Quantaray 19-35, a so-so tokina 80-400 and 1 or 2 shots with a canon 50mm f1.4.

my junk lenses have served me very well, most of my problem is not the equipment or the quality of the equipment, but my own lack of photography knowledge.

Give a 3 year old an $8,000 DSLR with a $5,000 lens and I bet you get a horrible photo.

Give Ansel Adams a Point N Shoot digital and you will get a great photo

remember its not the equipment its the person controling the equipment

James
12/09/2004 09:42:28 PM · #33
A camera like the DSC-F828 is a better package "as is" than any DSLR. The real appeal of a DSLR is the amount of possibilty for someone who know where to invest money and can afford to do it.
 12/09/2004 09:51:03 PM · #34
Originally posted by jamesdak:
Well I own the FZ10 and am not happy with it. The noise above ISO makes the 200 and 400 range unusable. That "great" lens is coupled with an terrible autofocus system that can't keep up with my kids in sports. Images also seem very soft for the most part and alot of them are difficult to get sharpened up in PS using the unsharp mask. I can't wait until I can afford the new Minolta 7D so I can give this thing to my wife. Oh, and I do have high quality Minolta glass!


I've only had my FZ20 for about 3 months but my experience is the opposite. I think I can get adequately sharp images straight from the cam, and they polish up nicely in post-processing when needed. I'm using PSP 7 for the most part. Before the FZ20 I had a Minolta A1 and it had really soft images out of the camera that needed much more work to make them look decent. And you may be disappointed if you think any DSLR's AF is going to keep up with your kids.
12/09/2004 09:54:12 PM · #35
check also this thread about lensbabies
 12/09/2004 09:55:55 PM · #36
Originally posted by nicklevy:
A camera like the DSC-F828 is a better package "as is" than any DSLR. The real appeal of a DSLR is the amount of possibilty for someone who know where to invest money and can afford to do it.


No kidding. I made a huge leap of faith about a month ago and invested alomost $1000 in a Canon 300mm f4 IS. Thing is worth more than my camera body. I don't regret the purchase. I also know that I can get top dollar if ever I want to sell it later on... as if that's ever going to happen :)
 12/09/2004 10:10:59 PM · #37
Originally posted by nicklevy:
A camera like the DSC-F828 is a better package "as is" than any DSLR. The real appeal of a DSLR is the amount of possibilty for someone who know where to invest money and can afford to do it.


Yup, that plus the more versatile control system and the superior image quality.
 12/09/2004 10:12:32 PM · #38
I hear this argument all the time. True, you need skill, but junky equipment is only going to get you so far. When the skill is there better equipment WILL get you better prints. 640x480 on a website isn't going to show all the strengths and weaknesses of a lens as much as 12x18 print will. Sure, Ansel Adams could have taken great photos with a point and shoot. But, he didn't use a point and shoot.

Originally posted by jab119:
just about every photo in my profile for the challenges was taken with a junky Quantaray 28-200mm f3.5-5.6 lens. the pics from when i first joined were from my 707, and there are a few taken with my junky Quantaray 19-35, a so-so tokina 80-400 and 1 or 2 shots with a canon 50mm f1.4.

my junk lenses have served me very well, most of my problem is not the equipment or the quality of the equipment, but my own lack of photography knowledge.

Give a 3 year old an $8,000 DSLR with a $5,000 lens and I bet you get a horrible photo.

Give Ansel Adams a Point N Shoot digital and you will get a great photo

remember its not the equipment its the person controling the equipment

James

12/10/2004 12:44:57 AM · #39
Originally posted by jimmythefish:
I hear this argument all the time. True, you need skill, but junky equipment is only going to get you so far. When the skill is there better equipment WILL get you better prints. 640x480 on a website isn't going to show all the strengths and weaknesses of a lens as much as 12x18 print will. Sure, Ansel Adams could have taken great photos with a point and shoot. But, he didn't use a point and shoot.


true, I hear it also, but many people dont have the need for 12x18 prints or larger. I know a lot of people do print that big, Im sure if i was making a LOT of LARGE prints I would invest in some better quality lenses, but I only do a few 8x12's or 8x10's, most are 4x6 or 5x7. So it boils down to a personal opinion.

here is a link to some sample pics from my so-so Tokina 80-400 lens
Tokina 80-400mm smaples just click the thumb for a small image, then click the small image for a full size UN-edited straight from the camera picture

I think its a good lens and I would have to dish out several hundred more$$$ to gain 10% increase in optical quality???????

the point I am trying to make is big expensive glass is not needed for everyone to get good pics.

James

Message edited by author 2004-12-10 00:47:30.
 12/10/2004 06:12:20 AM · #40
Originally posted by EddyG:
Originally posted by nshapiro:
Ok, then tell me where I can buy a 4.6 to 55 mm F2.8 constant aperture lens for my dRebel? ;)

The first thing you need to do is install the "downgrade" to the the 4.5mm x 3.4mm sensor in your dRebel... =] That makes the required imaging circle for the lens much smaller than what is required to fill the current 22.0mm x 15.0mm sensor already in your camera...


So this effectively changes our focal length in which way? For example, my 18-55mm now becomes a...?
 12/10/2004 06:16:19 AM · #41
29-88, roughly.

Originally posted by brianlh:
So this effectively changes our focal length in which way? For example, my 18-55mm now becomes a...?

12/10/2004 06:19:24 AM · #42
Hmm, I guess I'd rather just invest in the 70-300 that I've been looking at. Thanks :)

Originally posted by jimmythefish:
29-88, roughly.

Originally posted by brianlh:
So this effectively changes our focal length in which way? For example, my 18-55mm now becomes a...?

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