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03/12/2003 12:56:43 PM · #226
Do you guys/gals think that bush will get reelected?
03/12/2003 01:04:06 PM · #227
Originally posted by Geocide:

Do you guys/gals think that bush will get reelected?


probably not. i will vote for him only because i don't trust democrats
03/12/2003 01:37:03 PM · #228
lol, i like your thinking. What bothers me though, is that you do trust republicans. I say a politition is a politition, you can trust them as much as you can a used car salesman.
03/12/2003 02:29:25 PM · #229
Originally posted by Geocide:

lol, i like your thinking. What bothers me though, is that you do trust republicans. I say a politition is a politition, you can trust them as much as you can a used car salesman.


let me continue on my last statement then. i would not vote for bush right now, if he wasn't the incumbant, to be clear. we was a lot better than gore in my opinion because i didn't connect with anything gore said, especially after watching the debates and watching how much he changed himself based on what exit polls stated after each debate. how could anyone trust a guy like that. i think the democrats would be better served with someone like nader, without the extreme views. all democratic presidential candidates i have been around for all seem too fake for me to believe anything they say, more so than the republicans.

Message edited by author 2003-03-12 14:35:37.
03/12/2003 04:03:28 PM · #230
Yeah, though i did like Clintion, he made it impossible for any democrats to follow him. Although, Gore did almost made it though (some, myself, say that he did).

I'm just glad Pat Buchanan didn't make it into office, then they'd probally reinstate slavery. ;)....Iraq would be trying to liberate us...Imagine that.

Message edited by author 2003-03-12 16:11:11.
03/12/2003 04:27:19 PM · #231
Originally posted by Geocide:

Yeah, though i did like Clintion, he made it impossible for any democrats to follow him. Although, Gore did almost made it though (some, myself, say that he did).

I'm just glad Pat Buchanan didn't make it into office, then they'd probally reinstate slavery. ;)....Iraq would be trying to liberate us...Imagine that.


haha, yeah buchanan is a nutjob
03/12/2003 04:39:29 PM · #232
Originally posted by Geocide:

I'm just glad Pat Buchanan didn't make it into office, then they'd probally reinstate slavery. ;)....Iraq would be trying to liberate us...Imagine that.


Buchanan isn't racist... if anything liberals like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the racists. They are racist against whites. Why don't liberals call Jesse Jackson racist after he calls New York City "hime town" (sp?) referring to the Jews that live there? I guess if a fellow liberal is racist that can be over-looked, but God help you if you're a conservative and make the same type of statement?

Bush is strong on some things and weak on other things... example, Bush wants to (or did) want to flood the US with illegal Mexican immagrants. We need someone who will protect our Borders, Language, and Culture, and I don't think Bush really cares about doing that because he sees them as possible future votes I believe. Buchannon on the other hand would not do that type of thing I think. The reason protecting our borders is so important is that arab terrorists enter the country mostly through Mexico and Canada. We should CLOSE those borders permanetely for 5 years at least. I think the biggest thing (ever more important then the war on Iraq and even Al Queda) in preventing terrorism would be to put all that man-power, money, and resources into protecting the US borders. That means close them down, and ship out ALL illegal immagrents in this country. If a business is found hiring illegals, you close down the business to. Then for any immagrant that's considered for entry into the USA, you do a full background check on them first and if they are coming from a country that supports terrorism they automatically DENIED ENTRY no matter what. And no immagrent with a contagous disease would be allowed in either (such as teburculosis, AIDS, etc.). We can support the poor countries like Africa, etc., and send them money/treatment for those diseases if they can't afford it themselves, I'm all for doing that, but NOT for letting them come to this country. That's just common sense really. Liberals on the other (most of them) would call that view racist when it isn't, so watch out for who you vote for in '04 otherwise we may become a 3rd country in 20 years.

There's a lot we can do but politicans won't ever do them (Buchannon might) but because of the backlash they'd receive from the liberal left they won't do it. They'd be called racist for doing it when in fact it's just measures to protect our country.

Message edited by author 2003-03-12 16:58:13.
03/12/2003 06:12:37 PM · #233
i'd have to agree with you on the racism issue. while statements by robert byrd were largely overlooked, statements made by trent lott incited a witch hunt
03/12/2003 06:15:22 PM · #234
Originally posted by ChrisW123:

Originally posted by Geocide:

I'm just glad Pat Buchanan didn't make it into office, then they'd probally reinstate slavery. ;)....Iraq would be trying to liberate us...Imagine that.


Buchanan isn't racist... if anything liberals like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the racists. They are racist against whites. Why don't liberals call Jesse Jackson racist after he calls New York City "hime town" (sp?) referring to the Jews that live there? I guess if a fellow liberal is racist that can be over-looked, but God help you if you're a conservative and make the same type of statement?

Bush is strong on some things and weak on other things... example, Bush wants to (or did) want to flood the US with illegal Mexican immagrants. We need someone who will protect our Borders, Language, and Culture, and I don't think Bush really cares about doing that because he sees them as possible future votes I believe. Buchannon on the other hand would not do that type of thing I think. The reason protecting our borders is so important is that arab terrorists enter the country mostly through Mexico and Canada. We should CLOSE those borders permanetely for 5 years at least. I think the biggest thing (ever more important then the war on Iraq and even Al Queda) in preventing terrorism would be to put all that man-power, money, and resources into protecting the US borders. That means close them down, and ship out ALL illegal immagrents in this country. If a business is found hiring illegals, you close down the business to. Then for any immagrant that's considered for entry into the USA, you do a full background check on them first and if they are coming from a country that supports terrorism they automatically DENIED ENTRY no matter what. And no immagrent with a contagous disease would be allowed in either (such as teburculosis, AIDS, etc.). We can support the poor countries like Africa, etc., and send them money/treatment for those diseases if they can't afford it themselves, I'm all for doing that, but NOT for letting them come to this country. That's just common sense really. Liberals on the other (most of them) would call that view racist when it isn't, so watch out for who you vote for in '04 otherwise we may become a 3rd country in 20 years.

There's a lot we can do but politicans won't ever do them (Buchannon might) but because of the backlash they'd receive from the liberal left they won't do it. They'd be called racist for doing it when in fact it's just measures to protect our country.


about flooding the US with immigrants. I think this has more to do with Bush's desire for completely free trade in North America. That would allow American companies to set up shop in Mexico and cut labor costs, probably at the expense of American jobs, I haven't really researched that part of it.

03/13/2003 12:39:24 AM · #235
ChrisW123 - You're right, your views aren't racist. Technically, they're xenophobic.

It is my understanding that the men who flew the planes into the WTC and the Pentagon were legal immigrants, mostly from Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Both of those countries are important allies to the US, and would never be put on the list of "countries that support terrorism" under your scheme, because too many people have to be free to come and go from those countries (especially Saudi Arabia) to do business deals. Your scheme might seem to make sense to you in an odd way, but it wouldn't have prevented Sept 11.

It always strikes me as very odd when people in countries like yours and mine, which only exist in their current forms because of immigration, get xenophobic. In fact, my country has about a zero birthrate. Our population only grows because of immigrants.

From everything I've heard, though, your scheme is already largely in place. I've read about a man from Canada who has been in North America all his life, has a job, a family, etc., being deported to Syria because he crossed the border into the US to go to a petrol station. Also, here is an open letter from the famous Iranian director Jafar Panahi, describing how he was treated recently when he was invited to New York to attend a film festival there, only to be detained overnight in chains and sent back out of the country. He had recently been awarded the "Freedom of Expression Award" for his beautiful film "The Circle"... which is all about the oppression of women in Iran. If that's the kind of madness you support, then whatever.

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

As the winner of the Freedom of Expression Award for my film, The Circle,
I would like to take your kind attention to what happened to me in
your country, an incident that takes place everyday in US. And let
me hope to see your reaction to these inhuman incidents. I believe, I am
entitled to be curious about the response of the Board who granted me
such Award, a response proportionate to the behavior I and many other
people faced and will face.

You have considered my movie as a "wonderful and daring" film and I wish
your Board and the US media would dare to condemn the savage acts of
American Police/Immigration Officers and may such condemnation would
make the people aware of these acts. Otherwise, what would mean winning
such Award for me? And what honor I would have to keep it? Then, I may
return this Award to you as you may find another figure that is more
in proportionate to freedom!

In the booklet you kindly sent me together with your Award, I read
that a prestigious film
personality like Orson Welles has already received this Award.
Should I be happy that this great man is not among us now to hear how
the American police behaves to the filmmakers or people who enter
your country? As a filmmaker obsessed with social issues, my films deal
with social problems and limits and naturally I cannot be indifferent to
racist, violent, insulting and inhuman acts in any place in the world.
However, I certainly do detach the acts of American police and politicians
from the cultural institutions and figures as well as from the people of
USA - as I was informed, the film critics and audiences in your country
very well received my film. Nevertheless, I will inform the world media
about my unpleasant experience in New York and I hope, your Board, who
strives in freedom of expression, would react properly in this respect.

On April 15, I left Hong Kong Film Festival to the Montevideo and Buenos
Aires Festivals through United Airlines' flight 820. This 30-hours trip
was via New York JFK airport and I had to stay there for two hours and
change my flight to Montevideo. Further to my requests, the staff of all
the said Festivals had already checked if a transit visa is required
and they assured me there is no need for such visa and moreover, the
airliner issued me the ticket visa NY. But, I myself did ask the United
Airlines staff for the need for a transit visa at Hong Kong airport and I
heard the same response.

As soon as I arrived at JFK airport, the American police took me to an
office and they asked for finger-printing and photography because of my
nationality. I refused to do it and I showed them my invitations of the
Festivals. They threatened to put me in the jail if I would not do the
finger-printing. I asked for an interpreter and to call. They refused.
Then, they chained me like the medieval prisoners and put me in a police
patrol and took me to another part of the airport. There were many
people, women and men from different countries. They passed me to new
police men. They chained my feet and locked my chain to the others, all
locked to a very dirty bench. For 10 hours, no questions and answers, I
was forced to sit on that bench, pressed to the others. I could not move.
I was suffering from an old illness, however, nobody noticed. Again, I
requested them to let me call someone in New York, but they refused.
They not only ignored my request but also the request of a boy from Sri
Lanka who wanted to call his mom. Everybody was moved by the crying of
the boy, people from Mexico, Peru, Eastern Europe, India, Pakistan,
Bangladesh and... I was thinking that any country has its own law but I
could not just understand those inhuman acts.

At last, I saw the next morning. Another police man came to me and said
that they have to take my photograph. I said never. And I showed them my
personal photos. They said no and that they have to take my photo (in the
way the criminals are taken) and to do the finger-printing. I refused. An
hour later, two other guys came to me and threatened me to do the
finger-printing and photography by computer and again I refused and I asked
for a phone. At last, they accepted and I could call Dr. Jamsheed Akrami,
the Iranian film professor of Columbia University, and I explained to him
the whole story. I requested him to convince them and as he knows me
well, I am not a guy to do what they were looking for.

Two hours later, a police man came to me and took my personal photo. They
chained me again and took me to a plane, a plane that was going back to
Hong Kong.

In the plane and from my window, I could see New York. I knew my film,
The Circle, was released there for two days and I was told the film was
very well received too. However, the audiences would understand my film
better if they could know that the director of the film was chained at the
same time. They would accept my beliefs that the circles of human limits
do exist in any part of this world but with different ratios.

I saw the Statue of Liberty in the waters and I unconsciously smiled. I
tried to draw the curtain and there were scars of the chain on my hand. I
could not stand the other travelers gazing at me and I just wanted to
stand up and cry that I'm not a thief! I'm not a murderer! I'm not a drug
dealer! I... I am just an Iranian, a filmmaker. But how I could tell
this, in what language? In Chinese, Japanese or to the mother tongues
of those people from Mexico, Peru, Russia, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh...
or in the language of that young boy from Sri Lanka? Really, in what
language?

I had not slept for 16 hours and I had to spend another 15 hours on my way
back to Hong Kong. It was just a torture among all these watching eyes. I
closed my eyes and tried to sleep. But I could not. I could just see
the images of those sleepless women and men who were still chained.

Jafar Panahi
03/13/2003 12:49:12 AM · #236
Originally posted by achiral:


about flooding the US with immigrants. I think this has more to do with Bush's desire for completely free trade in North America. That would allow American companies to set up shop in Mexico and cut labor costs, probably at the expense of American jobs, I haven't really researched that part of it.

Uh...it's pretty obvious. Those jobs which haven't already been shifted to China, Indonesia, Taiwan, or anyplace else they can get the job done for $2-3/day/worker.

BTW: I'm starting a pool: Bechtel's BAGHDAD BILLION$
How much profit will they make rebuilding Iraq after we blow it up?
03/13/2003 12:51:55 AM · #237
Originally posted by ChrisW123:

Originally posted by Geocide:

I'm just glad Pat Buchanan didn't make it into office, then they'd probally reinstate slavery. ;)....Iraq would be trying to liberate us...Imagine that.


Buchanan isn't racist... if anything liberals like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are the racists. They are racist against whites. Why don't liberals call Jesse Jackson racist after he calls New York City "hime town" (sp?) referring to the Jews that live there? I guess if a fellow liberal is racist that can be over-looked, but God help you if you're a conservative and make the same type of statement?

Bush is strong on some things and weak on other things... example, Bush wants to (or did) want to flood the US with illegal Mexican immagrants. We need someone who will protect our Borders, Language, and Culture, and I don't think Bush really cares about doing that because he sees them as possible future votes I believe. Buchannon on the other hand would not do that type of thing I think. The reason protecting our borders is so important is that arab terrorists enter the country mostly through Mexico and Canada. We should CLOSE those borders permanetely for 5 years at least. I think the biggest thing (ever more important then the war on Iraq and even Al Queda) in preventing terrorism would be to put all that man-power, money, and resources into protecting the US borders. That means close them down, and ship out ALL illegal immagrents in this country. If a business is found hiring illegals, you close down the business to. Then for any immagrant that's considered for entry into the USA, you do a full background check on them first and if they are coming from a country that supports terrorism they automatically DENIED ENTRY no matter what. And no immagrent with a contagous disease would be allowed in either (such as teburculosis, AIDS, etc.). We can support the poor countries like Africa, etc.,...


Pat Buchanan is a racist; He's publicly made anti-Semitic comments. I was reading about this today.

I hate to break it to you but Africa isn't a country.

I do agree that Sharpton and Jackson are also racists. This, like any other minority group that dealt with any kind of racial oppression, is normal to some degree. Not "right" necessarily but normal. Please remember that legislated racial segregation only ended about 35 years ago. Geez, most of the people on this board were alive then. My point is that i'm not naive enough to believe that there won't be racial tension in my life time but it's still wrong in my eyes.

Close the borders.... Whatever happened to the land of the free. Bring us your poor, tired... This is unbelievable. IF you guys think that closing the borders will stop terrorist actives then you're sorely mistaken. Most of the terrorist by far as been domestic. Look at history.

As far as diseases go, 1/3 of Africa, (the continent) is infected with the HIV virus. This is a world issue, not some isolated incident. Whatís even worse is that people such as Chris don't care. If it were 1/3rd of Canadians then i think the response is different. What Iím getting at is, if you grew up in the US you are a racist to some degree, it's deeply rooted into not only American history but world history, it's saddens me that in a country that claims to be so progressive can be so stuck in the past.

My girlfriend works in a inner-city school that recently had a blood drive, and 50% of the donors had the HIV virus. Now if this were occurring in the suburbs, there would be a media outcry and the aids pandemic wouldn't be disregarded by some who believe that it's in a "country" called Africa.

I just saw the gangs of New York and i think that though we all claim to be civilized, we are proving ourselves to be as barbaric as those in that film.

Heaven help us if you guys (the ones that agree with chris) are ever in a position of social power.

03/13/2003 12:54:50 AM · #238
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by achiral:


about flooding the US with immigrants. I think this has more to do with Bush's desire for completely free trade in North America. That would allow American companies to set up shop in Mexico and cut labor costs, probably at the expense of American jobs, I haven't really researched that part of it.

Uh...it's pretty obvious. Those jobs which haven't already been shifted to China, Indonesia, Taiwan, or anyplace else they can get the job done for $2-3/day/worker.

BTW: I'm starting a pool: Bechtel's BAGHDAD BILLION$
How much profit will they make rebuilding Iraq after we blow it up?


Yep, I heard on NPR yesterday that there alrady rewarding contracts for after the war. and get this, they're all going to be american companies. Wait, i thought this war wasn't about money.

Message edited by author 2003-03-13 00:55:20.
03/13/2003 12:56:29 AM · #239
Would you call being in a country on a student visa an immigrant? hardly. also the situation in america is different to that of australia. we have a positive birthrate, and we have other countries to the north and south of us connected by land, something australia doesn't have. i think it's totally different. i don't think any country "needs" to allow immigration, and i don't see any problem with not allowing immigration if that is the country's choice. what right does anyone else have to say that they should be allowed to immigrate to any other country for whatever reason. do you see any positives in the american system lisa? i don't sit around worrying about what australia does because it's not my damn business and they can do whatever they want, besides nuke new zealand.
03/13/2003 12:57:29 AM · #240
Did you know that approx 25% of american's have hardened racist views?
03/13/2003 12:57:33 AM · #241
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by achiral:


about flooding the US with immigrants. I think this has more to do with Bush's desire for completely free trade in North America. That would allow American companies to set up shop in Mexico and cut labor costs, probably at the expense of American jobs, I haven't really researched that part of it.

Uh...it's pretty obvious. Those jobs which haven't already been shifted to China, Indonesia, Taiwan, or anyplace else they can get the job done for $2-3/day/worker.

BTW: I'm starting a pool: Bechtel's BAGHDAD BILLION$
How much profit will they make rebuilding Iraq after we blow it up?


that is such bunk
03/13/2003 12:58:12 AM · #242
Originally posted by Geocide:

Did you know that approx 25% of american's have hardened racist views?


link please, or reference
03/13/2003 12:59:15 AM · #243
Originally posted by achiral:

Would you call being in a country on a student visa an immigrant? hardly. also the situation in america is different to that of australia. we have a positive birthrate, and we have other countries to the north and south of us connected by land, something australia doesn't have. i think it's totally different. i don't think any country "needs" to allow immigration, and i don't see any problem with not allowing immigration if that is the country's choice. what right does anyone else have to say that they should be allowed to immigrate to any other country for whatever reason. do you see any positives in the american system lisa? i don't sit around worrying about what australia does because it's not my damn business and they can do whatever they want, besides nuke new zealand.


We have a very very low native american birthrate. They've all been excecuted in the last 300 years. archial, you don't have any moral high ground here.
03/13/2003 01:00:18 AM · #244
Originally posted by achiral:

Originally posted by Geocide:

Did you know that approx 25% of american's have hardened racist views?


link please, or reference


Shoot, i heard that on NPR today...I'll see if i can google search it.
03/13/2003 01:01:29 AM · #245
Originally posted by Geocide:

Originally posted by achiral:

Originally posted by Geocide:

Did you know that approx 25% of american's have hardened racist views?


link please, or reference


Shoot, i heard that on NPR today...I'll see if i can google search it.

Go to NPR.ORG -- I think they have most of the broadcasts archived and available for streaming...
03/13/2003 01:03:59 AM · #246
--

Message edited by author 2003-03-13 01:05:03.
03/13/2003 01:04:32 AM · #247
Yeah, this was the local show. I'll see if i can find it.
03/13/2003 01:07:39 AM · #248
Originally posted by Geocide:

Originally posted by ChrisW123:

[quote=Geocide]I'm just glad Pat Buchanan didn't make it into office, then they'd probally reinstate slavery. ;)....Iraq would be trying to liberate us...Imagine that.




As far as diseases go, 1/3 of Africa, (the continent) is infected with the HIV virus. This is a world issue, not some isolated incident. Whatís even worse is that people such as Chris don't care. If it were 1/3rd of Canadians then i think the response is different. What Iím getting at is, if you grew up in the US you are a racist to some degree, it's deeply rooted into not only American history but world history, it's saddens me that in a country that claims to be so progressive can be so stuck in the past.

My girlfriend works in a inner-city school that recently had a blood drive, and 50% of the donors had the HIV virus. Now if this were occurring in the suburbs, there would be a media outcry and the aids pandemic wouldn't be disregarded by some who believe that it's in a "country" called Africa.

I just saw the gangs of New York and i think that though we all claim to be civilized, we are proving ourselves to be as barbaric as those in that film.

Heaven help us if you guys (the ones that agree with chris) are ever in a position of social power.



How do you get AIDS? Is it preventable? Why is it worse in the city than in the suburbs? What should/can I do to stop it in the city or Africa or anywhere? (I think I know the answer to questions 1 and 2 but the other questions are serious)

03/13/2003 01:07:48 AM · #249
Originally posted by rcrawford:

-It's been deleted but here's the jist...he said that why should we care about those in Africa and the the innercities(mind you it is a problem in the subburbs too, just not as big) because we know the way this disease is transmitted-


There's a good idea, when the cause and effect of a given affliction are known then we should just forget about controling it. Away with mother aginst drunk driving, away with TB contol, away with the alcholism programs, just let them die...right?

You comments rcrawford are silly. What we should be doing is do what we do for any other disease, work to find a solution to the problem.

Message edited by author 2003-03-13 01:13:01.
03/13/2003 01:14:19 AM · #250
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Geocide:

Originally posted by achiral:

Originally posted by Geocide:

Did you know that approx 25% of american's have hardened racist views?


link please, or reference


Shoot, i heard that on NPR today...I'll see if i can google search it.

Go to NPR.ORG -- I think they have most of the broadcasts archived and available for streaming...


Of course when i go to look up the show, that part of the website is down..( //www.kcur.org/programs.asp ) anyway, they had Hate experts on the show "up to date" and this was one of the facts one of there guests mentioned.
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