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11/17/2004 12:47:14 PM · #1
Ok, I'm newish to DPC (lurking since April, submitted images to the last three open challenges). I made a point of voting on every image in the two challenges that are completed now that I competed in ("Bizarre Nature" and "Macros w/out...").

That's 752 votes. My profile shows only 33 votes cast.

In addtion to that discrepency, there were a few images in the Macro challenge that I gave 1s for various reasons. When I look at the breakdown of the scores for those images it shows 1 = 0 votes.

Strangely enough my profile does show all the comments I've made....

In addition to my votes, I also noticed that last night around 11pm I had over 330 votes for my Macro image but today it shows a total of 311. (My average is higher today than it was last night at 11pm which also makes me question how votes are counted).

So my question is: Do my votes count?

Anyone else see this kind of discrepency?
11/17/2004 01:00:03 PM · #2
You may want to read this thread. Perhaps your votes are being ignored as explained in that thread because of your voting pattern. The fact that you gave out 1's in the Macro challenge and aren't seeing those votes reflected in the voting histogram or in your profile leads me to believe that your votes are indeed being ignored and that you need to adjust your voting habits to something more reasonable.

In terms of why the number of votes went down on your own entry, there are variety of explanations. In addition to the aforementioned "vote scrubber" removing votes from those it has determined voted unfairly, if somebody voted on less than 20% of the images (which seems probable considering the number of entries), their votes are also discarded when the final results are computed.

So in answer to your question:

"Do my votes count?"

the simple answer is "not if you vote a lot of 1's and 2's".

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 13:06:50.
11/17/2004 01:00:19 PM · #3
Is you average vote cast really 3.63? Geez... that's pretty harsh!

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 13:00:29.
11/17/2004 01:02:18 PM · #4
Originally posted by toddhead:

Is you average vote cast really 3.63? Geez... that's pretty harsh!


Those are only the votes that counted!
11/17/2004 01:10:01 PM · #5
If he voted in 2 challenges...one of theose challenges must have around 33 entries then. Or has voted in another challenge before or one of those and has only voted a percentage. I am pretty sure the system does not pick and choose which votes to throw out...it throws all that persons votes out if they have the questionable pattern. IE-all ones and twos or all 9's and 10's, etc.
It is still a very LOW average, no matter. Use 1 through 10, please. (C:
11/17/2004 01:23:08 PM · #6
So what you are saying is that my "opinions" of other people's works don't count. To make my votes count I have to lower my standards on what I consider good.

What's the point of having your peers rate your photographs if they can't provide an honest assesment? I'm my own worst critic. I'm brutal in self-assesment. I want people to be honest with me. If someone here thinks my images are crap they should be able to vote accordingly. And, likewise, if I don't like an image I should be allowed to be harsh.

I'm not some dumbass kid that's trying to vote everyone else down so my images rate higher. I'm being honest with my assesments. I've given out plenty of 10s 9s and 8s when they were deserved (again, in my opinion).

Well, I'm not going to lower my standards on myself, so there's no way I'm going to lower my standards for other.

xian
11/17/2004 01:29:58 PM · #7
Originally posted by EddyG:

So in answer to your question:

"Do my votes count?"

the simple answer is "not if you vote a lot of 1's and 2's".


and not if you give out all 9s and 10s either. Or all 5's. The way to fix this would be to vote on images that you both like and dislike. You can't tell me there are no images at all that you like?
11/17/2004 01:35:19 PM · #8
Originally posted by xian:

I want people to be honest with me.


I'm going to take a risk here and be honest with you. I read many of the comments you left on the Macro II entries and, despite your laudatory comment on my entry, I think perhaps you could re-think what you're saying and how you're voting.

Imagine, if you will, a large gallery with these same photos hung on the wall and the photographer of each standing next to their work. Then imagine walking up to each of them and saying out loud the comment that you have written on their entry. And then tell each what score you'd give them for their efforts. How well do you think you'd be received?
11/17/2004 01:42:16 PM · #9
It all seems fair enough to me. Who am I to say a photograph is 'bad'? If it doesn't appeal to me, I give it an average mark and if it's poorly shot I'll give it lower. I think I've only given one ten and no ones or twos.
11/17/2004 01:47:59 PM · #10
Simple you voted 719 1ís and 2ís or 9ís and 10..but my guess is the first!!! Why? Do you feel everyone here is that bad? Do you feel your pictures are twice as good as everyone else? Did we over rate your pictures? What score would you give yourself? Iím not trying to be rude but thatís one of the reasons votes get booted [to many of the same vote in one challenge].
I would love to here how you rate photographs. What is a 1 to you, what is a 2 to you, what is a 3 to you, etc? Maybe it would help us understand a little better.

11/17/2004 02:08:12 PM · #11
Originally posted by KaDi:

Originally posted by xian:

I want people to be honest with me.


I'm going to take a risk here and be honest with you. I read many of the comments you left on the Macro II entries and, despite your laudatory comment on my entry, I think perhaps you could re-think what you're saying and how you're voting.

Imagine, if you will, a large gallery with these same photos hung on the wall and the photographer of each standing next to their work. Then imagine walking up to each of them and saying out loud the comment that you have written on their entry. And then tell each what score you'd give them for their efforts. How well do you think you'd be received?


So now you're telling me to vote your way. Hey, that's a democracy! sheesh.

And, to be honest, when my friends ask about their pictures, I'm as brutal with them as they are with me. A gallery with the artist standing next to their work? Of course I'd use the same words and tell them how I voted. I'm not hiding behind the internet here. I'm on a site that has challenges and awards "ribbons" to "winners" I'm sorry but to win you have to be better than someone else. We all can't be 10s. This isn't kindergarten.

Perhaps I'm on the wrong website. Asking me to take the time and vote (for at least 20%; in the two challenges I competed in I voted for 100%) and then not allowing my vote to count because I have an opinion is ridiculous.

xian
11/17/2004 02:12:58 PM · #12
You are entitled to your opinion. However, if you feel that the at least 150 photos you voted on do not score higher than 1 or 2, perhaps you need to seek out a site that is more to your required caliber. Nobody is asking you to vote all tens but there is a good deal of space between 1 and 10.
11/17/2004 02:14:32 PM · #13
:)

Originally posted by xian:

Perhaps I'm on the wrong website.
11/17/2004 02:17:04 PM · #14
You don't get it...the SYSTEM is set up to take ODD voting patterns and get rid of them. If I voted only 8, 9, 10 throughout the challenge...they are gone. Only 4's and 5's...gone. I don't know what the percentage is but I imagine there is one for these numbers to discard ALL this persons votes when that 20% (I made this up) that are voted 1's (or whatever) is reached.
Being a critic is fine, but the point most people make around here is, out of the 90-642 entries in the challenges now, your average should should come out to between 4.5 and 5.5, when you have finished. Make sense?

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 14:22:55.
11/17/2004 02:22:36 PM · #15
Originally posted by SDW65:

Simple you voted 719 1ís and 2ís or 9ís and 10..but my guess is the first!!! Why? Do you feel everyone here is that bad? Do you feel your pictures are twice as good as everyone else? Did we over rate your pictures? What score would you give yourself? Iím not trying to be rude but thatís one of the reasons votes get booted [to many of the same vote in one challenge].
I would love to here how you rate photographs. What is a 1 to you, what is a 2 to you, what is a 3 to you, etc? Maybe it would help us understand a little better.


No I don't think my images are "twice" (where did that come from?) as good as anyone elses. And there are some very talented people that submit to the challenges. I'd give my preying mantis a 7 and my fly (which I submitted as a goof on the theme) a 6. At least they were in focus!!!! So many hundreds of entries in both those challenges were out of focus! I rate technical acievment pretty high. On the other hand meeting the challenge and good composition is also important to me. I would NEVER submit an out of focus picture (unless it was some artistic effect, of course).

these are 1s:
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=120131
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=119351
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=119647
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=119891
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=118238
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=119791
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=118240
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=118763
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=118272
//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=118217

I could go on and on. Read my comments on those. Does anyone really disagree with me here? Poorly composed, no focus, or subjects that didn't even come close to meeting the challange.

xian
11/17/2004 02:22:41 PM · #16
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/244/thumb/96222.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/244/thumb/96222.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/263/thumb/110321.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/263/thumb/110321.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

i assume you would think that these two shot fall in the same bracket
around a 3
11/17/2004 02:25:26 PM · #17
What is the point of being that overly critical? I respect your right to have those opinions, I'm merely asking.

From a scale of 1-10, that would seem to infer that a "5" would be your average, run of the mill photo. Maybe technically sound but lacking in interest or "oomph" for lack of a better word. Anything below a 5 would then seem to suggest flaws...subject out of focus, poor composition, etc.

To vote a 1 or 2 is really saying the photo has little or no artistic merit whatsoever, or failed to meet the challenge rules completely. What divine photoraphic ideal are you comparing other peoples ( and your own) work to?

There are always people that vote the way you do and very few of them ever seem to explain why they give such low scores. When a photo averages a 7 or 8 on a challenge, yet still receives 1's and 2's...I start to question their motives and wonder what exactly it is they are critical of, especially since they never bother to leave a message.

You may very well be different and explain why you give such low scores, but if you really feel that everyone's photography here is so bad, why not search out another site where the photos meet or exceed your expectations?

11/17/2004 02:26:57 PM · #18
Hmmm that would explain what's been happening to me.

Pretty much every vote I've casted lately is gone (as far as I've seen).

The fact that the rules say it's about voting patterns that are meant to unfairly affect the results, peeves me. It's pretty obvious that there are people who would do this, but come on blacking out votes is an accusation in itself.

I for one shan't be voting..I'll just enjoy the photos and that's it. That's not a challenge, just a statement. My time is precious, I could be picking lint from between my toes instead of voting anyway :-)

11/17/2004 02:27:34 PM · #19
Originally posted by riotspyne:

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/244/thumb/96222.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/244/thumb/96222.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/263/thumb/110321.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/263/thumb/110321.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

i assume you would think that these two shot fall in the same bracket
around a 3


huh?

The Danali shot is very cool. The cereal is out of focus.

xian
11/17/2004 02:29:41 PM · #20
Xian - a 3.4 is just simply too low. You've basically been told that your macro votes were tossed for being even lower than that. To be fair and honest, if you believe the sum of DPC work in a 500 entry challenge is an average 2.5, then yes, you ARE on the wrong site. That's not meant as a "get lost" but as a true answer to your earlier wonder. The average dpc pic is not a 3.4 under DPC'er standards.

M
11/17/2004 02:32:00 PM · #21
Originally posted by rscorp:


To vote a 1 or 2 is really saying the photo has little or no artistic merit whatsoever, or failed to meet the challenge rules completely. What divine photoraphic ideal are you comparing other peoples ( and your own) work to?



look at my list above and see how many 1s those shots got. Come on!!!! a f***ing airplane in "Macro"? give me a break. 3 10s??? 3 8s??? are you people on drugs????

xian
11/17/2004 02:35:03 PM · #22
Maybe people gave the plane a high score because they thought it was funny. Or because they didn't want to let the submitter get last place, thinking they were aiming for a brown ribbon.

The submitter is from Portugal. It's possible he didn't understand the term Macro.

M
11/17/2004 02:38:35 PM · #23
Originally posted by xian:

Originally posted by rscorp:


To vote a 1 or 2 is really saying the photo has little or no artistic merit whatsoever, or failed to meet the challenge rules completely. What divine photoraphic ideal are you comparing other peoples ( and your own) work to?



look at my list above and see how many 1s those shots got. Come on!!!! a f***ing airplane in "Macro"? give me a break. 3 10s??? 3 8s??? are you people on drugs????

xian


You seem to be missing the point entirely. Your votes wouldn't be thrown out because you gave 1 or 5 or 10 shots a 1. They would be thrown out when you gave a 1 to pretty much every single shot you voted on. For your votes to count in the last two challenges, that would have meant you needed to vote on approximately 150 photos (20% of each challenge). For your votes to have been thrown out, you would have had to vote a 1 or 2 on pretty much every photo. You said you voted on all the photos which means you voted a 1 or 2 on around 700+ shots. That's the problem.
11/17/2004 02:39:11 PM · #24
Originally posted by mavrik:

Xian - a 3.4 is just simply too low. You've basically been told that your macro votes were tossed for being even lower than that.
M


No, I was never "told" by anyone that my votes were being tossed out.

xian
11/17/2004 02:39:14 PM · #25
I'm not saying that some photos don't deserve to take a beating. I'm just suggesting that taken as a whole, if your average vote is hovering around a 2 or something like that, you might be a little harsh in your voting. Not every photo deserves a 9 or 10, but there's a lot of numbers in between.

And if you think those people are crazy for voting 8's or 10's for that pic, what does that say about you when you've voted 1's or 2's on other pics where most other people voted 7 or higher? They could have the same opinion about you.
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