Masters Chal... Err. Invitational Challenges

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

11/16/2004 09:51:04 PM · #126

Originally posted by Falc:

I never said something had been taken away. Its the opposite of that - exclusion from the added value.

It's just that - added value.

When DPCPrints opened, there were "featured prints" (may still be). These were front page, front and center prints. D&L picked them for their salability. Mine didn't make it. Those that did got a LOT of added exposure. "Added value" as you called it. I was excluded from it. Was that fair?

frumoaznicul

Canon EOS-20D

11/16/2004 11:39:49 PM · #127

Seriously I agree people are taking all these too seriously and I have nothing against these challenges even tho I am not fit to any of them yet, but next time please add them when there are no 529 and 624 entry challenges. Also SC can think about less generic topics especially for open challenges, 624 (and counting) is insane!!!

Message edited by author 2004-11-16 23:42:30.

Stagolee

Kodak Easyshare C180

Canon EF 50mm f1.2L

11/17/2004 12:40:33 AM · #128

Eddy the first thing that was lost was to compete against all members in a competition which was the conditions when i joined.
I had no complaints regarding the Masters and stated that in the original thread. We were told that the Masters was some type of reward for the people who had contributed a lot to the site and were leaving because they were not being challenged this sounded ok to me no complaints understood the logic.
Now we are told that it is an invitation and as you stated could be random as all people placed 4th, well this logic I have a problem with.
As it stands this is how you will alienate members.
I have no problem with some of the suggestions like non- SLR or SLR challenge as along as you have both or male and female as long as you have both.
If you have used the number of ribbons as the critea why discriminate against members who have won one ribbon.

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/17/2004 12:48:04 AM · #129

Originally posted by coolhar:

Originally posted by mavrik:
As far as I know, this site has always been guided by our wants and desires. D&L are very good at listening - not kowtowing. I think this is a fantastic idea. The best of all possible worlds. I couldn't participate in the first two, but I can this time. Maybe next time, Frum can while I can't. It's all good. :)

M

With all due respect mavrik, I don't think it is all good. Like TooCool, I also think it gives the impression that SC & admins are bowing to the most vocal of the masses. It started out as what many of us sincerely believed was a bad idea to begin with. And now the fixes are just compounding the original error.

2 ribbons, then 3 ribbons, and now no ribbons--- each time somebody gets excluded, the overall value of ribbons is cheapened, the database is further corrupted, and more hard feelings are generated. And for no good reason. There was no dire need demanding to be addressed that started this sequence of events. Put an end to it.

You keep mentioning corruption of the database. We're here for the purpose of photography, not data collection. As long as the data is recorded accurately, I don't think comparibility across challenges or over time should be an overriding concern.

-Terry

ClubJuggle

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/17/2004 12:50:59 AM · #130

Originally posted by Zoomdak:

I want to see this happen, but some of these challenges may be to regulate. What about people changing their preferences to meet the challenge description? Changing cameras, locations, ages. I guess they could tally it before, then publish a list of elgible participants. But then what if people change it just because, and happen to get in? Seems unlikely, but may happen. And what of those that have specified an age, camera, gender, whatever. Left out? Sounds like a good incentive to fill those options out.

As always, abuse of any site feature by any user is grounds for immediate supension or termination of that user's account.

-Terry

graphicfunk

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF 28-135mm F/3.5-5.6 IS USM

11/17/2004 01:07:08 AM · #131

To satisfy this thirst for ribbons I suggest you run executive challenges with three non ribbon winners. No need to vote. Run the next until everyone has a ribbon. ROFL of course, I am joking. Please do not attack me, this happens enough when I go into the political rant and the true believers gang up on me. lol

11/17/2004 02:09:08 PM · #132

What happened to the DPC that I joined? Where people of all stature compete with the best to be the best!

This social order that has taken DPC by the throat totally disgusts me. Disillusioned ribbons were not the solution to this problem. Not only have you successfully devalued the ribbon but the entire site.
By catering to these "whiners" you're only going to get more whining, it will never stop.

Everyone whining about what they NEED (a virtual ribbon of all things) has decreased the appeal of this site, when instead they should be enjoying themselves shooting pictures, happy with the fact that a site like this even exists.

It is just an "entertainment site" but seriously where is the fun in knowing you reached the top only by removing the recognized success?
The only way to achieve excellence is by having the ability TO achieve it, not by removing those with the ability.

Something else to think about; if someone gets 3 ribbons in "no ribbon" challenges they can then compete amongst the best in 3+ ribbon challenges???
I feel the only thing that could salvage the character of this site would be to not give ribbons in a "no ribbon" challenge. I honestly can't justify selective competition and awarding the same kind of ribbon as in standard open and member challenges.

All these whiners are showing a serious lack of respect.
This site was ideal when I joined... now I feel as if it has cancer.

terje

Apple iPhone

11/17/2004 02:15:33 PM · #133

Kali, I wouldn't call it cancer. This is the point where companies either become great companines, or go bankrup and dies. The time has come for the DPC owners to make a choice in which direction they want to take in order to cope with the increasing volume of users.

I hope they come up with something great!

11/17/2004 02:20:39 PM · #134

A few users leaving because achieving a fair ribbon is "too hard" would not be the fall of DPC. Things might slow down for awhile but eventually they would return.

Success as in monetary value or it's integrity and virtue? You can succeed only so far by sacrificing value.

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 14:30:20.

11/17/2004 02:32:19 PM · #135

Kali - the challenges aren't for those who think it's too hard to ribbon. The Master's challenges started as a way to keep the BEST of DPC interested. Not the masses.

Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM

11/17/2004 02:36:28 PM · #136

Then why have a no ribbon challenge? If it's not too hard what's the point??

I think the masters challenge was a fine idea. Let the best compete amongst themselves, they've earned it.

grdSavant

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

11/17/2004 02:37:13 PM · #137

Originally posted by frumoaznicul:

Non DSLR challenge and ONLY DSLR challenge.

I vote yes. It would make it easier for some of us to get to see some of the great stuff done with non DSLR's, rather than have to wade through all the camera specs.

goodtempo

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/17/2004 02:42:09 PM · #138

Me too!

Originally posted by frumoaznicul:

Originally posted by Discraft:
The Challenge is on!! it started! :)

That's just great! Now I'm not a master but I can't participate here eyther because I have a ribbon :((

11/17/2004 02:43:05 PM · #139

Originally posted by Kali:

Then why have a no ribbon challenge? If it's not too hard what's the point??

To showcase some talent that's GREAT, but hasn't yet won?

M

goodtempo

Canon EOS-450D Rebel XSi

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

11/17/2004 02:49:43 PM · #140

I guess you forgot about us 1 ribbon winners.

Originally posted by EddyG:

I just fail to see how Invitational Challenges have negatively impacted anyone's ability to participate.

11/17/2004 02:53:07 PM · #141

Originally posted by goodtempo:

I guess you forgot about us 1 ribbon winners.

Originally posted by EddyG:

I just fail to see how Invitational Challenges have negatively impacted anyone's ability to participate.

Negative. As in minus.

11/17/2004 03:04:35 PM · #142

Originally posted by mavrik:

Originally posted by Kali:
Then why have a no ribbon challenge? If it's not too hard what's the point??

To showcase some talent that's GREAT, but hasn't yet won?

M

Don't they get showcased in every challenge they enter? What about threads started "feedback please" is that not showcasing?

Why does the value of the ribbon have to fall in order to satisfy the NEED for people without ribbons? It makes the value of the ribbon a non-absolute.

Like I said before, if this is all in the name of being entertained why hand out ribbons in a no ribbon challenge? The fun is in competition, right? Winning is superfluous. If you must remove the known talent then PLEASE don't award the same ribbon.

11/17/2004 03:25:25 PM · #143

So Drew's ribbon doesn't count?

bod

11/17/2004 03:26:55 PM · #144

Originally posted by Kali:

Why does the value of the ribbon have to fall in order to satisfy the NEED for people without ribbons? It makes the value of the ribbon a non-absolute.

Please stopping attributing this huge value to ribbons. They are worth nothing. Diddly squat. Always have been, always will be.

Originally posted by Kali:

Like I said before, if this is all in the name of being entertained why hand out ribbons in a no ribbon challenge? The fun is in competition, right? Winning is superfluous.

Exactly. You said it yourself. The ribbons are worthless, the value is in entering, voting and commenting.

Originally posted by Kali:

If you must remove the known talent then PLEASE don't award the same ribbon.

A few virtual ribbons doesn't equal talent. I'm expecting some outstanding work in the ribbonless challenge. Either that, or all the people who keep saying it's making it too easy and de-valuing ribbons had better show us just how easy it is.

11/17/2004 03:35:34 PM · #145

Originally posted by mavrik:

So Drew's ribbon doesn't count?

Did I say that? No. Don't know what you're getting at.

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

11/17/2004 03:41:22 PM · #146

Originally posted by Kali:

Originally posted by mavrik:
So Drew's ribbon doesn't count?

Did I say that? No. Don't know what you're getting at.

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=71
9 competitors and 91 votes.
There were only 9 entrants. No "names" in the challenge at all! No former ribbon winners. What a cheap ribbon. It shouldn't count. I wouldn't wanna beat only 8 other photographers including 6 who aren't here anymore.

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 15:41:49.

Kavey

Canon EOS-400D Rebel XTi

11/17/2004 03:41:31 PM · #147

Originally posted by KaDi:

Edit: to correct the inedible typo.

CUTE!
;o)

11/17/2004 04:05:53 PM · #148

Originally posted by bod:

Originally posted by Kali:
Why does the value of the ribbon have to fall in order to satisfy the NEED for people without ribbons? It makes the value of the ribbon a non-absolute.

Please stopping attributing this huge value to ribbons. They are worth nothing. Diddly squat. Always have been, always will be.

You can't really argue that the virtual ribbon is valueless. They may not hold monetary value but they do give a sense of a job well done. Do you not hold others feelings of success as valuable? I do... it may not have a direct effect on me, but it's great for them and their self-esteem, which, in turn spreads. Can you honestly tell me that when you won your first ribbon you held no value to it or your feelings of accomplishment?

Originally posted by bod:

Originally posted by Kali:
Like I said before, if this is all in the name of being entertained why hand out ribbons in a no ribbon challenge? The fun is in competition, right? Winning is superfluous.

Exactly. You said it yourself. The ribbons are worthless, the value is in entering, voting and commenting.

Yes the value is in the fight, that does not negate the value of the ribbon. Do we really need to shorten the playing field in order to satisfy a need for an easier ribbon?

Originally posted by bod:

Originally posted by Kali:
If you must remove the known talent then PLEASE don't award the same ribbon.

A few virtual ribbons doesn't equal talent. I'm expecting some outstanding work in the ribbonless challenge. Either that, or all the people who keep saying it's making it too easy and de-valuing ribbons had better show us just how easy it is.

I never said ribbons equal talent, but it is a quick judge of ability.
For you to say it's not going to be easier is completely illogical.

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 16:13:12.

11/17/2004 04:09:14 PM · #149

Originally posted by mavrik:

Originally posted by Kali:

Originally posted by mavrik:
So Drew's ribbon doesn't count?

Did I say that? No. Don't know what you're getting at.

//www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=71
9 competitors and 91 votes.
There were only 9 entrants. No "names" in the challenge at all! No former ribbon winners. What a cheap ribbon. It shouldn't count. I wouldn't wanna beat only 8 other photographers including 6 who aren't here anymore.

I still don't understand what you're point is. The start of this website is irrelevant especially when discussing the value of ribbons.

Message edited by author 2004-11-17 16:11:27.