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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Digital Imagery Side Challenge
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04/22/2023 08:51:39 AM · #1
By imagery I mean computer-generated imagery including a series of images like a video. This side challenge could help understand better new directions in art like AI generated images and AI video as well as virtual photography and video in 3D environments and games. Would there be any interest?
04/23/2023 01:11:08 AM · #2
Yes, I didn't think there would be much interest, DPC is very much set in its old fashioned roots with no room for experimentation.
04/23/2023 02:38:36 AM · #3
LOL, you weren't around for the contentious photoshop riots.

Or the debate to increase the image sizes to 800px!


Eventually we got to "Expert Editing" and larger image sizes, but there has always been resistance to change.

Anyway, I'd be interested in it to get better at prompting. Throw down some guidelines or objectives and I'll jump in. Georges might be interested as well. Let the suggestion float around the home page forum for a few days.
04/23/2023 07:11:29 AM · #4
Thanks, Ken. I haven't yet started using Midjourney so I am a complete newbie. I will poke Georges to see if he would be interested in sharing his experience as well as getting feedback on his images.

My area of expertise is virtual photography in 3D photo-scanned environments. I can explain step by step how it works, for example for this image:
https://1x.com/photo/2487855

Is there any interest in virtual photography?

Message edited by author 2023-04-23 07:11:55.
04/23/2023 02:12:12 PM · #5
Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Yes, I didn't think there would be much interest, DPC is very much set in its old fashioned roots with no room for experimentation.


It would be great Margaret if you'll refrain from looking down on any old fashion roots.
We all might get where you are, or not, following our minds and talents.
04/23/2023 04:03:22 PM · #6
I feel a little like I might feel if one of my favorite fellow members in a macrame-crafting website suddenly started trying to convince me, and everyone else, to dabble in 3-D lace-printing, when there are lovely sites for THAT already out there and I've been happily doing macrame for 50 years. It's not that I don't appreciate the attraction of the new thing, but when I'm told I'm a stick in the mud for NOT embracing said member's newest passion, I feel uncomfortably pressured and oddly diminished.
04/23/2023 06:24:47 PM · #7
Certainly this might hold some interest for some photographers. But not for me. I am still fascinated by what un-manipulated photography can show/do/reveal/surprise/delight. My plate is rather full.
04/23/2023 07:50:19 PM · #8
Originally posted by tnun:

Certainly this might hold some interest for some photographers. But not for me. I am still fascinated by what un-manipulated photography can show/do/reveal/surprise/delight. My plate is rather full.

Sidenote: there is virtually no such thing as "un-manipulated photography". ;-)
04/23/2023 08:20:53 PM · #9
Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Yes, I didn't think there would be much interest, DPC is very much set in its old fashioned roots with no room for experimentation.


I understand your frustration -- but you didn't give people very much time before deciding we weren't interested. I just saw the thread now. :(

My fear is the same fear I had with expert editing. Once gyaban started doing his incredible work, regular scores started going down. I've had a couple of 8s in my lifetime here, but have never been close again. That's why AI is winning photo contests -- it's coming up with perfect situations that we just can't find. I have a very real fear that my work will be complete crap in comparison. And I've very hesitant to point that out.

Part of me, however, is a bit intrigued - because maybe it will help me come up with ideas to photograph. But if it already exists in AI, why recreate it then.

So I have very mixed emotions about it. I am very afraid it's going to take over my livelihood. And yet I don't feel right switching to selling AI generated images. They're not my work.
04/23/2023 08:24:29 PM · #10
There is a thread that is very frequently on the home page of DPC:
https://www.dpchallenge.com/forum.php?action=read&FORUM_THREAD_ID=926405
I have not noticed ever that the participants were told to pack their bags and go elsewhere as DPC is a PHOTOGRAPHY site. I put that thread on IGNORE as it does not interest me but I have no problem that some DPCers have fun with it.
04/23/2023 08:31:10 PM · #11
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

...when there are lovely sites for THAT already out there...

Name them, Bear. I looked at DevianArt and it is a social media Website, to me personally horrible. Something similar to Facebook that I have stopped using years ago.
04/23/2023 08:31:58 PM · #12
well, I do a lot of stuff with my feet...

This probably isn't helpful but it seems to me that a lot of the trouble we are in, as societies, as part of planet earth, is made possible by the power and complexity of innovations.

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:


Sidenote: there is virtually no such thing as "un-manipulated photography". ;-)
04/23/2023 08:46:05 PM · #13
Something I do almost everyday is cycling (if weather permits). I consider it old-fashioned but I love it. When the cars became available many people thought that will be the end of bicycle but it is still around although its purpose has changed. I think something similar might happen to photography.

Message edited by author 2023-04-23 20:47:03.
04/23/2023 09:08:11 PM · #14
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Yes, I didn't think there would be much interest, DPC is very much set in its old fashioned roots with no room for experimentation.


I understand your frustration -- but you didn't give people very much time before deciding we weren't interested. I just saw the thread now. :(

My fear is the same fear I had with expert editing. Once gyaban started doing his incredible work, regular scores started going down. I've had a couple of 8s in my lifetime here, but have never been close again. That's why AI is winning photo contests -- it's coming up with perfect situations that we just can't find. I have a very real fear that my work will be complete crap in comparison. And I've very hesitant to point that out.

Part of me, however, is a bit intrigued - because maybe it will help me come up with ideas to photograph. But if it already exists in AI, why recreate it then.

So I have very mixed emotions about it. I am very afraid it's going to take over my livelihood. And yet I don't feel right switching to selling AI generated images. They're not my work.


This was meant as a post for discussion. not a shutting down of an idea. Why should I be interested instead of afraid? How can it help my photography? Or can it?
04/23/2023 09:48:48 PM · #15
Hey Margaret, I'm delighted you started this SC, and kinda sorry it's turning into yet another rantish thread. I think that's because you framed it in a way that belittles traditional photography as "old-fashioned", which a lot of us clearly still prefer. That may not be what you meant, but that is how many of us understood it.

This is the PERFECT place to invite people to try their hand at AI, if they want to, without the need for you to disparage the rest of the community, ok?
04/23/2023 10:48:26 PM · #16
Originally posted by tanguera:

Hey Margaret, I'm delighted you started this SC, and kinda sorry it's turning into yet another rantish thread. I think that's because you framed it in a way that belittles traditional photography as "old-fashioned", which a lot of us clearly still prefer. That may not be what you meant, but that is how many of us understood it.

This is the PERFECT place to invite people to try their hand at AI, if they want to, without the need for you to disparage the rest of the community, ok?

+1

Margaret, I was trying to help you understand how your presentation is what's offputting, not the substance of the side challenge. I apologize if I sounded peeved.
04/24/2023 12:42:07 AM · #17
I will start another thread specifically for AI.

I always liked learning new things, in the past few years I learned to do timelapses, 360 panoramas and star trails. For the past 2 years I have been learning 3D design and virtual photography, I find learning new things very stimulating and fun.

Wendy, know your enemy, in other words have hands on approach and learn to use AI. Maybe you will find aspects that will enrich what you love doing the most.
04/24/2023 01:23:48 PM · #18
Is it possible to have an AI contest website, similar to DPC? Sure it will attract many new people. Let's get DPC have a child...
I do join AI contests on Discord but not as fun as on DPC.
04/24/2023 01:45:16 PM · #19
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

Is it possible to have an AI contest website, similar to DPC? ...


If you want to build it, go for it! Considering this is 2 years, 4 months and counting - creating a new branch probably not going to happen.

... and no, not going to have AI challenges here. :-) That's been beat to death already (no EXIF is the killer - i.e. not an actual photograph).

Please keep this thread to the creation of a SIDE CHALLENGE please. Thanks.
04/24/2023 02:05:49 PM · #20
What does Mita think? After all he is the new owner.
04/24/2023 02:43:28 PM · #21
Originally posted by MargaretNet:

What does Mita think? After all he is the new owner.

About what, this side challenge? ... or did you want to start a new thread. :-)

The Web Suggestions forum has been shut down for a while, as has the Get Satisfaction one. But, the DPCv3 thread is still viable. Or, you can also PM Mita ( mitalapo) directly.
04/24/2023 02:44:17 PM · #22
... and to put this thread back on track.

Originally posted by MargaretNet:

By imagery I mean computer-generated imagery including a series of images like a video. This side challenge could help understand better new directions in art like AI generated images and AI video as well as virtual photography and video in 3D environments and games. Would there be any interest?
04/25/2023 01:05:40 AM · #23
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

Is it possible to have an AI contest website, similar to DPC? Sure it will attract many new people. Let's get DPC have a child...
I do join AI contests on Discord but not as fun as on DPC.

That's why we keep on coming here but as many people pointed out it will never happen for more than one reason.
04/25/2023 01:07:24 AM · #24
Originally posted by glad2badad:

... and to put this thread back on track.

Originally posted by MargaretNet:

By imagery I mean computer-generated imagery including a series of images like a video. This side challenge could help understand better new directions in art like AI generated images and AI video as well as virtual photography and video in 3D environments and games. Would there be any interest?

And this Side Challenge won't happen either. At least I have given up.
04/25/2023 02:06:41 AM · #25
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

Is it possible to have an AI contest website, similar to DPC? ...


If you want to build it, go for it! Considering this is 2 years, 4 months and counting - creating a new branch probably not going to happen.

... and no, not going to have AI challenges here. :-) That's been beat to death already (no EXIF is the killer - i.e. not an actual photograph)...

Actually Barry made me realize that not a line of code needs to be written, just the rules need to be changed - NO MORE EXIF!! :) All that needs to be done is to create another instance of the site (disk space and bandwidth are cheap these days), write new rules (Bear would be good at this even if he is not interested in participating), change the branding to AIChallenge and off we go!

There is a problem with rather archaic look of the site but that is also one of its advantages. You are not bombarded with messages, notifications and advertising, dreaded influencers! This is one of the reasons I kept on coming back to the DPC. Also, it might attract more mature and sensible people, rather than teenagers. And the fact that DPC survived over 20 years is the proof that the site model really works and it is possible that changing the scope of allowed images will finally attract new users.

From strategic point of view NOW is the time to do it while the AI craze is only few months old. My own business was early to market in 2000 when we had almost no competition in online learning. After a few years others caught up but we enjoyed the advantages of being an early mover.

I will PM Mita and see what he says.

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