More photography business help needed, please!

09/21/2022 05:53:30 PM · #26

Ok -- I need to repond, but I'll do it after Sunday. Because that will be the first test!

I've looked at all the advice. I've branched out into canvas, I'm figuring out my prices and getting everything entered for the show on sunday! (and I have a 10'x10' tent set up in my living room)

Canon 12x IS USM (S3 IS built-in Lens) -- 36-432mm (35mm EQ)

09/21/2022 05:56:10 PM · #27

But one more question. Can I title a photograph "Your Moment of Zen"? It's a tribute to the daily show segment "Your Moment of Zen". I believe that 5 words is copyright infringement. Is it a trademark thing? You can't copyright titles (or at least you couldn't awhile ago)

What do you think?

GeneralE

Canon PowerShot S3 IS

09/21/2022 06:05:09 PM · #28

AFAIK titles are still not subject to copyright. Trademark protection extends to similar products to avoid confusing customers -- your print image is unlikely to be confused with a TV program. Besides, it's only four words ... ;-)

I'm not a lawyer, but my mom did voice-overs for lawyers on TV ...

09/21/2022 06:39:49 PM · #29

I don't have any problem selling canvases to my clients and/or overcoming their objections to my prices, I feel super fortunate that my clients see the value in what I offer as an artist in capturing their portraits. However, I do appreciate when the companies I use make it difficult to go direct as in requiring someone to be in the industry before allowing them to buy from them, I like to offer products which I feel match what I produce in quality. Something that is unique and not available in general through a few clicks online. All the vendors I use are unique and I have spent a lot of time curating product offerings.

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

09/21/2022 10:19:48 PM · #30

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:

In what venues are you selling your work? Right now I'm selling at sidewalk art fairs. Unfortunately I'm competing with people that are printing their own stuff cheaply, or competing with people who are investing in the quality inks, papers, etc., but aren't taking in account the full cost and so are pricing quite low. So right now I don't know if I'm pricing too high or if people just don't like the stuff. (or both)

nam

Sony DSLR-A580

09/21/2022 10:56:51 PM · #31

I've been following this with interest since the beginning. Wishing you a most excellent fair.

Right now I'd like to know . . . how do YOU like the canvases you ordered? I'm sure you still feel they are a little soft, but do they look pretty good to you?

09/21/2022 11:40:01 PM · #32

Originally posted by nam:

I like some quite a bit - more than I would have expected. But some are rather disappointing.

I still don't care for small canvases. (small being 16x20). I think when it's that size there's a lot that doesn't hold up nearly as well. However, I think the large canvases look pretty impressive - even though there are issues I have in some areas that look a little blown or soft. The details in the really dark areas seem to get lost, which again, isn't as noticeable in the larger ones.

09/22/2022 11:44:44 AM · #33

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by nam:
I've been following this with interest since the beginning. Wishing you a most excellent fair.

Right now I'd like to know . . . how do YOU like the canvases you ordered? I'm sure you still feel they are a little soft, but do they look pretty good to you?

I like some quite a bit - more than I would have expected. But some are rather disappointing.

I still don't care for small canvases. (small being 16x20). I think when it's that size there's a lot that doesn't hold up nearly as well. However, I think the large canvases look pretty impressive - even though there are issues I have in some areas that look a little blown or soft. The details in the really dark areas seem to get lost, which again, isn't as noticeable in the larger ones.

Adding now: the backs of the EasyCanvas ones are rather poorly finished. They're stapled right near the edge, which is fine, but it leaves large flaps of canvas and extra flaps on the corners just kind of handing out. The Canvas from CanvasPop, and the other place (I'll have to look up) are finished much, much nicer on the back. I started putting a paper backing (like I do for framed images), but it makes them hard to pick up and hold, and you stand a chance of them grabbing it and just breaking through the back paper. So we added some extra staples to at least hold down the corners. I know it's the back, and people don't see it, but it doesn't look very professional. The question is: Is it good enough as is, or am I better off having the back look good and getting less of a markup.

I wish I had printed the same print from multiple places. I'm thinking Canvaspop and Canvasprint are a bit better than EasyCanvas. It is nice being able to print some large things. Large, framed pictures get really heavy with the glass and the frame.

Hopefully Sunday goes well and gives me an idea of what works and what doesn't. Keep your fingers crossed, though. Jeff is getting sick, and I can't do it myself. He just travelled back from Europe. He's testing negative for covid (at the moment), but still feels crappy.

09/22/2022 08:57:09 PM · #34

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
I don't have any problem selling canvases to my clients and/or overcoming their objections to my prices, I feel super fortunate that my clients see the value in what I offer as an artist in capturing their portraits. However, I do appreciate when the companies I use make it difficult to go direct as in requiring someone to be in the industry before allowing them to buy from them, I like to offer products which I feel match what I produce in quality. Something that is unique and not available in general through a few clicks online. All the vendors I use are unique and I have spent a lot of time curating product offerings.

In what venues are you selling your work? Right now I'm selling at sidewalk art fairs. Unfortunately I'm competing with people that are printing their own stuff cheaply, or competing with people who are investing in the quality inks, papers, etc., but aren't taking in account the full cost and so are pricing quite low. So right now I don't know if I'm pricing too high or if people just don't like the stuff. (or both)

I think this is where �my client� and other�s on this thread may be different. I am selling to portrait clients. So, they naturally have a love for the subject on the canvas (LOL) and pay for a premium medium to display them.

Wendy - have you looked at GraphiStudio? They have some amazing quality products. When I buy art that isn�t portraiture for my home, I like something unique - you should check them out. Perhaps having a sample(s) of items at the fairs and a catalog of images available and a correlating price sheet for different sizes and types available? (FYI) Graphi has amazing magazines as well that you could turn in to a catalog. Going to post a couple different items - I just thought of another a metal one that your work would look AMAZING on!!

Hold on-I need t blow dry my hair . . . LOL Yes it�s 6pm!

09/22/2022 09:13:43 PM · #35

Wendy - ignore my horrible cell phone pics of these: ETA: Boy-these are REALLY bad photos AND my sofa is disheveled LOL

this metal print has a standout section which displays simple backgrounds and allows you to pull out your subject your amazing photos and looks very artistic:

Close up of the standout part:

This is a canvas with just two boards and some twine to hang it:

I love this company - this is two pieces of plexiglass and a barn wood frame with a torn edge print sandwiched in between. This is a favorite because you can switch up the framing to match a home and the 'mat' will always match their house because it is their own wall color:

Close up:

Message edited by author 2022-09-23 13:01:27.

09/23/2022 11:36:28 AM · #36

Hi Erin,

I think my problem is that I'm trying to sell at sidewalk art shows that aren't really customered by people who want to spend a lot of money on art. And there are too many photographers at these that are selling much cheaper. I bought my display system from another photographer up in Philly. He sells at art shows and gets $700-900 for his work. But none of the art shows down here have anywhere near that pricing structure. With the exception of one, but I didn't get in to that juried show. :(

The photographer that's helping me has the same type of stuff I do. On a good show, he makes around $1000. And he prices his about 2/3 my price. I'm thinking about taking a random survey of people who go through and don't buy anything to see if it's because they don't like the art or don't like the price. (just a 3 question survey on my ipad type of thing.) 5-10% off if you take the survey. or free greeting card :)

Message edited by author 2022-09-23 11:36:45.

09/23/2022 11:39:22 AM · #37

Btw, Erin -- I do love your feedback, and I need to increase my contract shoots (people, animals, etc) and I don't think my work is good enough. So I don't have the guts to offer pricier options. I'll be reaching out in Nov or Dec to pick your brains. :)

09/23/2022 12:34:51 PM · #38

Originally posted by vawendy:

I would love to chat with you in Nov/Dec by the third week in Nov I slow down as my Senior business has pretty much wrapped up and December is when I have slated to redo my website so a welcome diversion would be awesome!!

I don't think a lot of people would be ready to drop larger amounts at a art show that is transient weekend tent, etc. Art galleries allow people to go and visit pieces over and over. Just my two cents - BUT being able to send them off with a catalog/magazine with your art and then a two page spread on prices/sizes/mediums would allow them to go home and envision it better. Plus, you could incorporate 'vignettes' in the back to show sizes of art in relation to standard room set ups (sofa/entry table/bed/etc) so people can get a feel of scale. Just a thought.

ETA: Your work is DEFINITELY good enough!!!!

Message edited by author 2022-09-23 12:35:25.

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

09/23/2022 12:49:24 PM · #39

Here is a sample of a magazine that you could very easily create a catalog with pricing in the very back spread of options. BTW: I am of the firm belief that there are photographers who are great at photography and there are many that are great at marketing/sales. The two don't always align. When doing art shows, which I rarely do and I only do it to get my name out not to sell anything on the spot except small little greeting cards that have a torn edge, high quality paper that is different than the others. I want to create a feeling with my name. I want clients to associate me with unique, quality, it starts when I hand them a marketing piece that is too small to throw away and they take home and want to look at. I have clients that have contacted me from a magazine that someone passed on to them (maybe they just couldn't throw it away?).

Message edited by author 2022-09-23 13:00:36.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

09/23/2022 01:51:28 PM · #40

Originally posted by vawendy:

I don't think my work is good enough.

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:

Your work is DEFINITELY good enough!!!!

Okay, somebody hold Wendy still so I can slap her!!!

Good grief!

Your work is not only technically correct and exceeds anyone's professional standards, it shows heart, compassion, real world relatability and out and out smile factor.

You have incredible range across multiple genres and are one of the most versatile and diverse photographers I've ever seen.

I'm not going to go lose an hour rummaging through your incredible portfolio to support my case, as anyone here could, but damn, girl!

Give yourself some credit. Anyone here can prove to anyone who asks that you're a shining star by the numbers alone.

Do NOT do that self-destructive questioning of your own abilities.

You're damn good, and your VERY sale-worthy.

What you have to figure out is what and where to sell, learn your market, choose how it works best for you.......

Erin works her tail off, reaches out, invests the time and money, did her research, and has a good thing going where she commands the big bucks for what she does.

I'm old, fat and lazy, bought a building in the "art district" of town for the wall space, and have gone the cheap canvases route for the impulse buys of local art walk events and weekend town crawlers, who walk in and look at stuff while I sit on the couch.

Your previous post you mentioned two photogs whom you determined their market and range. That's what you get to do.

Determine how much time, money, inventory, travel, space accommodations, scheduling, how much you're willing to spend on show/booth fees, commissions and on top of all that, you have attrition rate from everything to a ding on a picture frame to dropping your best gloves in a puddle while you were loading up.

The most important thing to realize is that you're doing this for the fun and because you're a good photographer who should get her work out there for others to enjoy.

But you definitely shouldn't give it away, and unless you're really lucky, it's going to be a slow uphill slog till you fond your own particular system.

Originally posted by vawendy:

So I don't have the guts to offer pricier options.

Marketing factoid: Price stuff in the stratosphere. You can always give someone a discount. In fact, people like that. You talk to them for 15 minutes, make like you're now old friends, and say, "What the heck, for you, we can knock a little off.". You can *NOT* go up in price after you've sold something too cheap.

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:

I don't think a lot of people would be ready to drop larger amounts at a art show that is transient weekend tent, etc. Art galleries allow people to go and visit pieces over and over. Just my two cents - BUT being able to send them off with a catalog/magazine with your art and then a two page spread on prices/sizes/mediums would allow them to go home and envision it better. Plus, you could incorporate 'vignettes' in the back to show sizes of art in relation to standard room set ups (sofa/entry table/bed/etc) so people can get a feel of scale. Just a thought.

Look'ee that! More free experience.

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:

I am of the firm belief that there are photographers who are great at photography and there are many that are great at marketing/sales. The two don't always align.

Truth. I'm no wizard at either but I'm doing well enough to suit me.

FWIW, I find this fairly amusing. It has at no point occurred to me that you'll be anything but successful.

I'm just curious as to what you settle into as your way of doing it.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback from the upcoming show.

09/23/2022 04:54:20 PM · #41

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by vawendy:
I don't think my work is good enough.

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Your work is DEFINITELY good enough!!!!

Okay, somebody hold Wendy still so I can slap her!!!

Good grief!

Your work is not only technically correct and exceeds anyone's professional standards, it shows heart, compassion, real world relatability and out and out smile factor.

You have incredible range across multiple genres and are one of the most versatile and diverse photographers I've ever seen.

I'm not going to go lose an hour rummaging through your incredible portfolio to support my case, as anyone here could, but damn, girl!

Give yourself some credit. Anyone here can prove to anyone who asks that you're a shining star by the numbers alone.

Do NOT do that self-destructive questioning of your own abilities.

You're damn good, and your VERY sale-worthy.

What you have to figure out is what and where to sell, learn your market, choose how it works best for you.......

Erin works her tail off, reaches out, invests the time and money, did her research, and has a good thing going where she commands the big bucks for what she does.

I'm old, fat and lazy, bought a building in the "art district" of town for the wall space, and have gone the cheap canvases route for the impulse buys of local art walk events and weekend town crawlers, who walk in and look at stuff while I sit on the couch.

Your previous post you mentioned two photogs whom you determined their market and range. That's what you get to do.

Determine how much time, money, inventory, travel, space accommodations, scheduling, how much you're willing to spend on show/booth fees, commissions and on top of all that, you have attrition rate from everything to a ding on a picture frame to dropping your best gloves in a puddle while you were loading up.

The most important thing to realize is that you're doing this for the fun and because you're a good photographer who should get her work out there for others to enjoy.

But you definitely shouldn't give it away, and unless you're really lucky, it's going to be a slow uphill slog till you fond your own particular system.

Originally posted by vawendy:
So I don't have the guts to offer pricier options.

Marketing factoid: Price stuff in the stratosphere. You can always give someone a discount. In fact, people like that. You talk to them for 15 minutes, make like you're now old friends, and say, "What the heck, for you, we can knock a little off.". You can *NOT* go up in price after you've sold something too cheap.

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
I don't think a lot of people would be ready to drop larger amounts at a art show that is transient weekend tent, etc. Art galleries allow people to go and visit pieces over and over. Just my two cents - BUT being able to send them off with a catalog/magazine with your art and then a two page spread on prices/sizes/mediums would allow them to go home and envision it better. Plus, you could incorporate 'vignettes' in the back to show sizes of art in relation to standard room set ups (sofa/entry table/bed/etc) so people can get a feel of scale. Just a thought.

Look'ee that! More free experience.

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
I am of the firm belief that there are photographers who are great at photography and there are many that are great at marketing/sales. The two don't always align.

Truth. I'm no wizard at either but I'm doing well enough to suit me.

FWIW, I find this fairly amusing. It has at no point occurred to me that you'll be anything but successful.

I'm just curious as to what you settle into as your way of doing it.

Looking forward to hearing your feedback from the upcoming show.

I'm in the crunch time now -- so I'll respond more later. But I know I'm damn good at wildlife (though there's always room for improvement.) I don't think I'm good enough for senior portraits, weddings, etc. Just because I think they should be awesome. I'm as good as a lot of hacks out there. But I'm not sure how to be better. I'm not very good at making people comfortable in front of a lens. That's why I'm thinking about doing pet photography. People seem to do it and make money at it. Once the show circut dies down in November, I'll start looking into it. I'm only working 12 hours a week at my job at the aquarium, and I feel like I'm getting pushed out. So I need something that will cover that income.

But onward to show prep! And I need to come up with a proposal for a show at a gallery. I've had work accepted into 3 different juried shows, so I'm eligible for a one-person show at the gallery. It will just be in one of their small rooms, but I have to come up with a proposal by the 30th.

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

09/23/2022 05:16:01 PM · #42

I know you won't be replying Wendy - but wanted to add my two cents while I am procrastinating pimple removal LOL

I am so glad you know to your soul that you are phenomenal at wildlife, you absolutely are! I have zero doubt about your skills in other genres. Fun fact, I hate weddings and family photos. I have only photographed one wedding and instantly knew it wasn't my jam. Too much stress of the day. I am a SUPER sensitive person and I seem to pick up on other people's 'stuff' and there is too much stuff at weddings and for that matter family portraits. I only photograph families of my HS Senior clients that I want to. That is why I'm redoing my site, removing all evidence of that. Funny thing, as you probably know, when people think you are a specialist, they will pay more. I am on the fence on my babies/kiddos side of the business because they are so much work and all my props over the years are taking up so much space in studio (which is in my home) that I just don't know. Waiting to see how I feel about that after my senior season. So, all that said, start with Pets and I think you will find their owners will creep in to your work. I am sure you are aware of facebook groups that have photo prompts for different genre's, that is a great place to go get ideas that you can tweak and make your own to help establish the rapport/relationship part.

FWIW: The pet market eclipses the new baby/child market in what people will spend. People LOVE their fur babies!! Take some photos offer to hang the on the wall of a vet's office and plow forward. Reach out for some area breeders of high end pups and offer to take photos of their litters with the caveat that they put your card/brochure in their 'going home' bag and tag you on their IG/FB pages. People that spend $5k on a pup will happily pay for a session and photos from you. The word spreads rather quickly! LOL Make a calendar and donate a percentage of profit to a animal rescue group, volunteer to take photos for pet adoption at the Humane Society. So much fun to keep you VERY busy!!

nikonjeb Erin works her tail off, reaches out, invests the time and money, did her research, and has a good thing going where she commands the big bucks for what she does.

Thanks for the compliment. I need to work harder for sure! I wish I could hire someone to do the business side and I could just photograph and edit.

I am excited to hear how your show goes, most of all imagine a good sale, manifest what you want to happen! It works - not always in the timing we want, but eventually.

Message edited by author 2022-09-23 17:17:10.

nam

Sony DSLR-A580

09/24/2022 02:28:24 PM · #43

Originally posted by vawendy:

. . . I'm thinking about taking a random survey of people who go through and don't buy anything to see if it's because they don't like the art or don't like the price. (just a 3 question survey on my ipad type of thing.) 5-10% off if you take the survey. or free greeting card :)

You forgot what, in my opinion, are probably the most important reasons people who go through don't buy . . . they simply don't have the room or use for the art.

A few people will always find a way to purchase and a place to display a piece of art that absolutely wows them, no matter the cost.

However, art is a discretionary purchase. I think the majority of lookers fall into other categories: they simply don't have the money for art; they have their living and/or work space "decorated" as they like it and don't "need" more art; they "need" a piece for a specific space BUT it has to be something they love AND that is the right size and presentation, etc.

NikonJeb

Nikon D850

Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28-300mm f3.5-5.6G ED VR

09/25/2022 07:34:37 AM · #44

Originally posted by nam:

A few people will always find a way to purchase and a place to display a piece of art that absolutely wows them, no matter the cost.

This is what I mean when I say there's no silver bullet for sales. There is *NO* way to know what's going to wow someone.

I've sold pieces that I was fairly certain would sell, but I've also sold work from showing people a selection I have of various subjects That I never would have printed had they not chosen them.

Originally posted by nam:

However, art is a discretionary purchase. I think the majority of lookers fall into other categories: they simply don't have the money for art; they have their living and/or work space "decorated" as they like it and don't "need" more art; they "need" a piece for a specific space BUT it has to be something they love AND that is the right size and presentation, etc.

And the lookie-loos. The people who simply enjoy looking at art with absolutely *no* intention of buying anything.

One thing that is a VERY good thing about our situation. I felt that we should be able to have this gallery as an adjunct to our life, a place to dedicate to who and what we are: artists. We bought this building as our home. The gallery just happens to be the first floor. We pay the mortgage for our place to live, the gallery is our passion. So there's no pressure to be directed to make sales. The sales are a bonus. We establish relationships with people who stop in, and often they come back.

It's the best of both worlds and not necessarily the most common or available business model.

We are VERY aware of how fortunate we are that our situation came to pass the way it did.

09/30/2022 05:27:17 PM · #45

Wendy - dying to hear how it went! What worked? What didn�t? What will you change?

Sony DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6 Aspherical ED Zoom Lens for Sony Alpha

09/30/2022 08:46:02 PM · #46

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:

Wendy - dying to hear how it went! What worked? What didn�t? What will you change?

Best show yet! I sold a $400 canvas! It was the more expensive canvas - cost of $140 but still a nice markup! The other canvases didn�t get much interest, I sold one framed print. I�ve also been selling �tiny treasures� 4x6 metal prints, and I sold 6 of those - which is 3 times more than usual.

The I was supposed to have my first three day show this weekend. the Neptune Festival in Virginia Beach. Yeah�. Not happening. Something to do with a hurricane bringing 3-6 inches of rain this weekend. At least it�s only rain - not what Florida and South Carolina have to deal with.

nam

Sony DSLR-A580

09/30/2022 10:18:46 PM · #47

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Wendy - dying to hear how it went! What worked? What didn�t? What will you change?

Best show yet! I sold a $400 canvas! It was the more expensive canvas - cost of $140 but still a nice markup! The other canvases didn�t get much interest, I sold one framed print. I�ve also been selling �tiny treasures� 4x6 metal prints, and I sold 6 of those - which is 3 times more than usual.

The I was supposed to have my first three day show this weekend. the Neptune Festival in Virginia Beach. Yeah�. Not happening. Something to do with a hurricane bringing 3-6 inches of rain this weekend. At least it�s only rain - not what Florida and South Carolina have to deal with.

Glad it went well for you. And now you have your inventory going forward.

10/01/2022 07:32:22 PM · #48

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by ErinKirsten:
Wendy - dying to hear how it went! What worked? What didn�t? What will you change?

Best show yet! I sold a $400 canvas! It was the more expensive canvas - cost of $140 but still a nice markup! The other canvases didn�t get much interest, I sold one framed print. I�ve also been selling �tiny treasures� 4x6 metal prints, and I sold 6 of those - which is 3 times more than usual.

YAHOO!! That is so exciting - those aren�t baby steps that is a major increase over past experiences!

The I was supposed to have my first three day show this weekend. the Neptune Festival in Virginia Beach. Yeah�. Not happening. Something to do with a hurricane bringing 3-6 inches of rain this weekend. At least it�s only rain - not what Florida and South Carolina have to deal with.

Disappointing I am sure, but as you said; many have had it much worse! Excited for you!! Congratulations!!