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11/10/2004 03:00:26 PM · #1
As we all would agree, an artist's interpretation of a photographic topic is highly subjective. ...But after competing in nearly 50 challenges here I'm of the opinion that, in our voting, we place too much emphasis on whether/how an image meets a particular challenge topic.

Whether a submission meets the challenge is an aspect that certainly should be considered. However, by throwing the whole thing out the window (i.e., voting it a 1) - which seems to happen all too often, we're not leaving any room for the photographer's unique, subjective interpretation.

I'd like to suggest that, in addition to the present scoring format, radio buttons be added to allow the voter to select "yes" or "no" as to whether an image meets the challenge. At the end of the scoring, if an image has a majority of "yes" votes, then the final averaged 1-10 score remains as is. If, on the other hand, the majority have selected "no", then the score is penalized one full point.

I believe the primary benefit of this feature would be an increase in artistic freedom/willingness to express a subject. At present I think we have too many "all or nothing" votes that penalize an image because of the voter's unwillingness or inability to put him/herself into the artist's shoes. It would also place more emphasis on the creative, aesthetic, and technical merits of the photograph, since (hopefully) just those would be considered in the 1-10 vote.
11/10/2004 03:06:24 PM · #2
The button is a good idea but why not just remove the image from competiton. That way the low score will not affect the photographers average. Only fair isn't it?
11/10/2004 03:14:27 PM · #3
Why shouldn't a low score affect your average just as much as a high score? Meeting the challenge is a prime aspect of your overall performance.
11/10/2004 03:14:44 PM · #4
Originally posted by orussell:

The button is a good idea but why not just remove the image from competiton. That way the low score will not affect the photographers average. Only fair isn't it?

That could be done, but it would then remove any incentive to consider the topic, making all challenges -in effect- free studies. What I'm suggesting is a way to be less punishing with our voting.
11/10/2004 03:18:13 PM · #5
Originally posted by scalvert:

Why shouldn't a low score affect your average just as much as a high score? Meeting the challenge is a prime aspect of your overall performance.

Yes, but I believe I am meeting the challenge. It's my interpretation vs. yours. If the majority vote that I'm not, then I deserve to pay a penalty. I just think that one point is enough.

11/10/2004 03:27:08 PM · #6
I like this idea, lets all the people who want to nitpick have their say without destroying a picture. That way they can look at the photo and vote purely on the photo and if the majority says it doesn't meet the challenge then it will not do good.
11/10/2004 03:31:56 PM · #7
Originally posted by orussell:

The button is a good idea but why not just remove the image from competiton. That way the low score will not affect the photographers average. Only fair isn't it?


I think most of the entries do meet the challenge in some obscure way. I don't think it would be fair to erase someone's low scoring entry just because it wasn't obvious how it met the challenge.

It's good to be clever and think outside the box. But I do like the Idea of the button regulating how much a score will drop for being too obscure. It would put a value on how important different aspects should be when voting in each challenge.
11/10/2004 03:45:04 PM · #8
i like this idea just to know how many people think that it doesnt meet the challenge, im wondering right now why my shot is getting canned...with 100 votes and only 1 comment (who liked it) sitting at a 4.3... it would be cool to know if that is why it is getting voted poorly.. i dont really care about the penalty points
11/10/2004 03:59:41 PM · #9
I think this idea has some merit!

Its the first thing that all voters should think about and could also give valuable feedback to the photographer as part of the update. It would cause a few problems for a short while because some people will tick the does not meet button and still score the photo low.

A very interesting idea.
Edit typo:

Message edited by author 2004-11-10 16:00:10.
11/10/2004 04:17:01 PM · #10
z

Message edited by author 2005-07-12 11:05:39.
11/10/2004 04:25:24 PM · #11
Originally posted by yurasocolov:

I would also make a separate scoring of purely technical aspects of the photo available. One rating for artistic appeal, one for technical implementation and a checkbox to indicate which photos didn't meet the challenge.

It's just too often it's a great idea and interpretation of the challenge, but it's poorly executed. Or vice versa, immaculate shot of something extremely boring and cliche.


they had a poll for something simiar.. i think it was close and they should do it again
POLL HERE
11/10/2004 04:25:25 PM · #12
Maybe not just two options, but 3 or 4.

Ex:
On a scale of 1-4 rate how well this image meets the challenge.
1- Does not meet the challenge (removes 1 or something points)
2- Kind of meets the challenge (removes .5 or something points)
3- Meets the challenges (removes no points)
4- Great interpretation of challenge (adds .5 or something)
11/10/2004 04:38:30 PM · #13
Originally posted by AmiYuy:

Maybe not just two options, but 3 or 4.

Ex:
On a scale of 1-4 rate how well this image meets the challenge.
1- Does not meet the challenge (removes 1 or something points)
2- Kind of meets the challenge (removes .5 or something points)
3- Meets the challenges (removes no points)
4- Great interpretation of challenge (adds .5 or something)


Too much thought for these 400 entry challenges. Gotta be yes or no to keep it a no-brainer.
11/11/2004 04:50:20 AM · #14
I like Amy's idea, some sort of scale like that. And if you just think it doesn't meet the challenge then put that.
11/11/2004 07:12:16 AM · #15
I second the idea of a checkbox for "off topic". But not affecting the outcome of the voting at all. The checkbox should be "off topic" and not checked, ie an image is on topic by default.

This way you can present the score as "5.293, 92.7% on topic".

Having a blue ribbon with like "6.382, 85% on topic" would signal that the image is so very very good that it survives the missed topic, and the other way around, finding low scoring images like "3.893, 99.8% on topic would signal that your next job probably won't be photographer..

It would provide valuable information to the photographer, as to understanding perhaps why the image doesn't do well. But letting it actually affect score - or worse, even right to participate - no please.
11/11/2004 07:57:46 AM · #16
Originally posted by Donatien:

I second the idea of a checkbox for "off topic". But not affecting the outcome of the voting at all. The checkbox should be "off topic" and not checked, ie an image is on topic by default.

This way you can present the score as "5.293, 92.7% on topic".


I also think this is a great idea. Start off easy, without punishment, for now. This would be very useful information and really not too much extra work on the votes. Checkbox Not Checked, only check if doesn't meet the challenge in your mind.

All for that.
11/11/2004 09:11:37 AM · #17
Originally posted by Donatien:

I second the idea of a checkbox for "off topic". But not affecting the outcome of the voting at all. The checkbox should be "off topic" and not checked, ie an image is on topic by default.

This way you can present the score as "5.293, 92.7% on topic".

Having a blue ribbon with like "6.382, 85% on topic" would signal that the image is so very very good that it survives the missed topic, and the other way around, finding low scoring images like "3.893, 99.8% on topic would signal that your next job probably won't be photographer..

It would provide valuable information to the photographer, as to understanding perhaps why the image doesn't do well. But letting it actually affect score - or worse, even right to participate - no please.

This is probably the "least radical" change along the line of the original idea. It would still permit the photographer to learn some very valuable information - at little additional cost in voter (and programmer!) effort.

I like this.
11/11/2004 09:28:13 AM · #18
I agree with Donatien. I feel that it would be usefull to know how well others think you photo fit the challenge. I don't feel a penalty is nesesary The voters are likely to still give me the score they feel I should have. I feel an Additional penalty would almost make it possible to give someone a lower than 1 score. I also feel it would save me time it writting my critques. I spend a decent part of my time simply writting that I didn't feel the shot fit the challenge. This would definately lower the time required to get through a 400+ vote. At least for those of us who try to leave comments. Well there my 3 cents worth
11/11/2004 09:45:52 AM · #19
Tristalik made the point I was going to: many people will still give a 1 vote in addition to marking the box so it will result in a double whammy on the score. Scoring should not change.

However I like Donatien's twist.
11/11/2004 11:04:52 AM · #20
wouldn't having it effect the scores just be another place the troll votes to mess with a perfectly good photo? Not only could they give you a 1 but they could vote that you didn't meet the challenge as well. A double whammy.
11/11/2004 11:12:51 AM · #21
I think would should make the voters look at the photo for at least 2 minutes. Maybe then they would understand why it meets the challenge and also give a vote that is more level headed.

I just can't believe mine wasn't understood by folks. :-( They must live in a cave or something.
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11/11/2004 11:21:37 AM · #22
<<tip-toe's over and taps Sonja on the shoulder and quietly whisper's, "you came in 5th">>

:) just kiddin ... i agree with you

Originally posted by Sonifo:

I think would should make the voters look at the photo for at least 2 minutes. Maybe then they would understand why it meets the challenge and also give a vote that is more level headed.

I just can't believe mine wasn't understood by folks. :-( They must live in a cave or something.
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