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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Best of 2021 (Extended)
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01/18/2022 06:45:40 AM · #1
Hi, I assume all components of the image must have been taken in 2021 for this? I have a composite, the main picture I took in 2021, I edited it in 2021 (obviously), but other parts are from my library of images and are older (I took them myself and have the originals, but not in 2021).

Just checking, I actually know the answer - :-P
01/18/2022 11:12:28 AM · #2
Yup, all have to be 2021.

Originally posted by challenge special flagged rule:

You may construct your entry out of as many images shot by you in 2021 as you wish, as long as none of them have been previously part of a challenge entry and you have retained an unaltered original of each component image.
01/19/2022 07:47:41 AM · #3
Thanks
01/28/2022 11:19:42 AM · #4
How about BO2021 minimal, since we've now combed thru and found those shots that were perfect SFC...
01/28/2022 01:35:06 PM · #5
Originally posted by skewsme:

How about BO2021 minimal, since we've now combed thru and found those shots that were perfect SFC...


+1 (but with cropping allowed. )
01/28/2022 02:20:54 PM · #6
-1000, I only shoot in RAW so Archival MINIMAL won't work for me (and most likely for many other DPCers, I hope they will speak up)

Message edited by author 2022-01-28 14:27:22.
01/28/2022 02:26:41 PM · #7
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by skewsme:

How about BO2021 minimal, since we've now combed thru and found those shots that were perfect SFC...


+1 (but with cropping allowed. )

+1001. :-)
01/28/2022 02:28:04 PM · #8
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by skewsme:

How about BO2021 minimal, since we've now combed thru and found those shots that were perfect SFC...


+1 (but with cropping allowed. )

+1001. :-)

I assume you always shoot in JPEG?
01/28/2022 02:50:14 PM · #9
+1

I almost always shoot in RAW, so this challenge is most likely not for me, but why not have a "Best of" challenge for those of us who like to take photos and present them "as shot". After all, I am equally not a fan of extended rules, but I don't mind that challenge either.
As a compromise of sorts, why can't we allow in minimal challenges photos that were taken as RAWs and saved as JPEGs without any changes from the original exposure parameters. Or is it impossible to check?
01/28/2022 03:05:02 PM · #10
Originally posted by LevT:

+1

I almost always shoot in RAW, so this challenge is most likely not for me, but why not have a "Best of" challenge for those of us who like to take photos and present them "as shot". After all, I am equally not a fan of extended rules, but I don't mind that challenge either.
As a compromise of sorts, why can't we allow in minimal challenges photos that were taken as RAWs and saved as JPEGs without any changes from the original exposure parameters. Or is it impossible to check?

Yes but it is missing the point, if you shoot JPEG you can have in-camera processing but you can't have that in RAW so saving RAW as JPEG will not make it a comparable contest.
01/28/2022 05:17:00 PM · #11
Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Originally posted by LevT:

+1

I almost always shoot in RAW, so this challenge is most likely not for me, but why not have a "Best of" challenge for those of us who like to take photos and present them "as shot". After all, I am equally not a fan of extended rules, but I don't mind that challenge either.
As a compromise of sorts, why can't we allow in minimal challenges photos that were taken as RAWs and saved as JPEGs without any changes from the original exposure parameters. Or is it impossible to check?

Yes but it is missing the point, if you shoot JPEG you can have in-camera processing but you can't have that in RAW so saving RAW as JPEG will not make it a comparable contest.


Well, yes you can, you simply transfer the old RAW image back to the camera and edit it.
But there is no such thing anymore as "straight from the camera" you can make hundreds of outcome of one picture in modern gear. So in fact the biggest factor in minimal is your gear, and that is not comparable.
01/28/2022 06:52:39 PM · #12
Just for the record, regarding Minimal Editing, the mindset was intended to be that we should shoot as if we were shooting color slides in the film days. That was an exacting discipline, and any self-respecting pro had to be very, very good at it. Our equivalent of post-processing was to match our film to the desired ambiance. Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Fujichrome, and so forth all had different color sensitivities and renderings. You had to get your exposure right in-camera, you had to get your focus right, you had to get your framing nailed, there was no way to correct these things. It was a point of pride that you could "get it right" straight from the camera, and it translated directly into getting more and better jobs :-)

As Haldo says, nowadays we can set our cameras to do a lot more things, but in a loose way that's still analogous to choosing a film for the job. So, the question is, doesn't it make sense that there's still considerable value in learning to use your equipment with the greatest possible skill just on basic principles? And isn't it reasonable that we include challenges that celebrate this?

Or is this all Dodo/Passenger Pigeon stuff and we need to get with the times?
01/28/2022 06:57:30 PM · #13
Originally posted by HalldorIngi:

Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Originally posted by LevT:

+1

I almost always shoot in RAW, so this challenge is most likely not for me, but why not have a "Best of" challenge for those of us who like to take photos and present them "as shot". After all, I am equally not a fan of extended rules, but I don't mind that challenge either.
As a compromise of sorts, why can't we allow in minimal challenges photos that were taken as RAWs and saved as JPEGs without any changes from the original exposure parameters. Or is it impossible to check?

Yes but it is missing the point, if you shoot JPEG you can have in-camera processing but you can't have that in RAW so saving RAW as JPEG will not make it a comparable contest.


Well, yes you can, you simply transfer the old RAW image back to the camera and edit it.
But there is no such thing anymore as "straight from the camera" you can make hundreds of outcome of one picture in modern gear. So in fact the biggest factor in minimal is your gear, and that is not comparable.
Yes I understand you can apply a ton of creative adjustments directly in-camera, that's why I also think minimal challenges are silly. I was just suggesting it so anyone who really would like to participate, could :). As for your suggestion to export RAW into JPEG in-camera after the image is captured Halldor, I am not sure it would be legal. I remember asking SC about it a while ago, and someone told me it would not. But it would be nice to confirm it. The thing is when you export it from RAW into JPEG (at least in my Olympus) you can adjust a lot of things - temperature, exposure, saturation, curves, crop, etc. Since you can play with these options as much as you want for a given RAW file, you would have a big advantage over someone who had to choose all these settings BEFORE taking a shot.
01/28/2022 08:07:22 PM · #14
Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by skewsme:

How about BO2021 minimal, since we've now combed thru and found those shots that were perfect SFC...


+1 (but with cropping allowed. )

+1001. :-)

I assume you always shoot in JPEG?

Both actually.
01/28/2022 08:45:42 PM · #15
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Just for the record, regarding Minimal Editing, the mindset was intended to be that we should shoot as if we were shooting color slides in the film days. That was an exacting discipline, and any self-respecting pro had to be very, very good at it. Our equivalent of post-processing was to match our film to the desired ambiance. Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Fujichrome, and so forth all had different color sensitivities and renderings. You had to get your exposure right in-camera, you had to get your focus right, you had to get your framing nailed, there was no way to correct these things. It was a point of pride that you could "get it right" straight from the camera, and it translated directly into getting more and better jobs :-)

As Haldo says, nowadays we can set our cameras to do a lot more things, but in a loose way that's still analogous to choosing a film for the job. So, the question is, doesn't it make sense that there's still considerable value in learning to use your equipment with the greatest possible skill just on basic principles? And isn't it reasonable that we include challenges that celebrate this?

Or is this all Dodo/Passenger Pigeon stuff and we need to get with the times?

Dodo without any doubt and we should get with the times. 20 years is a long time in technology.

And also, Best of is an Archival challenge with no option to shoot for it after the challenge is announced. That is unfair for those who shoot only in RAW and do not want to be dishonest by editing exported JPEG in the camera (or cannot do it because they don't have the right camera if honesty is not a factor).
01/28/2022 09:06:23 PM · #16
Yeah. I say scrap it. Bad idea overall.
Seriously. I agree.
01/28/2022 09:13:04 PM · #17
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Just for the record, regarding Minimal Editing, the mindset was intended to be that we should shoot as if we were shooting color slides in the film days. That was an exacting discipline, and any self-respecting pro had to be very, very good at it. Our equivalent of post-processing was to match our film to the desired ambiance. Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Fujichrome, and so forth all had different color sensitivities and renderings. You had to get your exposure right in-camera, you had to get your focus right, you had to get your framing nailed, there was no way to correct these things. It was a point of pride that you could "get it right" straight from the camera, and it translated directly into getting more and better jobs :-)

As Haldo says, nowadays we can set our cameras to do a lot more things, but in a loose way that's still analogous to choosing a film for the job. So, the question is, doesn't it make sense that there's still considerable value in learning to use your equipment with the greatest possible skill just on basic principles? And isn't it reasonable that we include challenges that celebrate this?

Or is this all Dodo/Passenger Pigeon stuff and we need to get with the times?


Times have changed for sure, now we can change focus and exposure afterwards and you get a suggestion for a nice filter to put on it before you upload it straight to the social media. Ai in editing is becoming a big thing and is becoming so good in copying your style
that it's unbelievable.
I do agree that the right way is to make the picture as good as possible in camera with the basic triangle, and I believe the pro's will stay there for the years to come. The average Joe on the other hand is already out there bragging that he can take better pictures with his phone
than my D850 can deliver, and the other average Joe's don't see the different. So yes, this is a one way route either if we like it or not.
01/31/2022 10:27:47 AM · #18
Death to Minimal!
01/31/2022 02:17:43 PM · #19
The minimal editing challenges are obnoxious -- because so many cameras have all the different settings.

However, do we really use them? I keep thinking I should (on the minimal editing challenges), but most of the time I don't bother. It's not something I want to use for my "real" photos, so I don't bother using them on minimal.

So I'm stuck trying to get it right the first time around.

Blech!

what a time consuming, irritating thing to do.

And what a perfect useful, helpful, irritatingly painful exercise!!

Yes, I hate entering something that I know could be so much better than it is, with just a few tweaks. But my overall work is better because of these little reminders that I can always do more work up front and end up with a better finished project.

Keep the minimal. Though I still wish we were allowed to crop. Portrait, landscape, still life, architectural, almost all other types of photography can crop by just moving closer. Wildlife photography can't. Allow cropping to even out the field a bit, and keep minimal. (plus, you'll get less squirrel entries that way. ;)

Message edited by author 2022-01-31 14:18:12.
01/31/2022 02:25:24 PM · #20
I love minimal entries. They force me to examine every part of the frame I'm shooting. They force me to ensure my light temperature is proper for the occasion. They force me to ensure I selected the best DOF. Etc. Etc. Sure, I hate JPG, but I can do RAW+JPG in that instance. Some of my favorite challenges.
01/31/2022 04:30:47 PM · #21
Such a polarity of opinion :-) And this, folks, is WHY we still have Minimal...
01/31/2022 08:33:20 PM · #22
Originally posted by MargaretNet:

... [it] is unfair for those who shoot only in RAW and do not want to be dishonest by editing exported JPEG in the camera (or cannot do it because they don't have the right camera if honesty is not a factor).

Is it "unfair" when we have a challenge requiring a 30-second exposure when my camera can shoot a maximum of 15-seconds? Or is any other challenge "unfair" when someone's ability to enter is limited by their equipment or location? You, for example, would have a decided advantage in a "Mountains" challenge over someone living in Kansas ...

If my camera shot RAW, I'm pretty sure I'd leave it in RAW+JPEG mode ...
01/31/2022 09:51:34 PM · #23
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by MargaretNet:

... [it] is unfair for those who shoot only in RAW and do not want to be dishonest by editing exported JPEG in the camera (or cannot do it because they don't have the right camera if honesty is not a factor).

Is it "unfair" when we have a challenge requiring a 30-second exposure when my camera can shoot a maximum of 15-seconds? Or is any other challenge "unfair" when someone's ability to enter is limited by their equipment or location? You, for example, would have a decided advantage in a "Mountains" challenge over someone living in Kansas ...

If my camera shot RAW, I'm pretty sure I'd leave it in RAW+JPEG mode ...

That creates a mess in my Lightroom catalogs with 99.9% of JPEGs never used, taking unnecessary space. Minimal is not worth this for me so my simple solution is not to enter Minimal challenges, I don't vote on these challenges either.

I still think Minimal challenges are unfair as you can enter a photo shot under Minimal rules in Extended challenges but you cannot enter Extended in Minimal. Maybe Extended rules should ban Minimal and Standard photos? ;)

01/31/2022 09:53:04 PM · #24
I love minimal. No need to think too much. Shoot and enter. Done :)

Message edited by author 2022-01-31 22:06:08.
01/31/2022 10:56:21 PM · #25
Originally posted by Tiberius:

I love minimal. No need to think too much. Shoot and enter. Done :)


zackly.

(and such a mess when I bother with editing. decisions, decisions).

so sorry if this is unfair...
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