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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Would this have done better and WHY!?!
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11/08/2004 03:54:20 AM · #1

Scudderia Furcata - In Your Face

This was my October Free Study entry and even though I scored a 5.930 I'm still really mad that it didn't give me a personal best. It is by far the best photograph I have ever taken and so it made me upset to see it score so "badly." I'm not saying that anyone else's didn't deserve what they got, I'm not complaining about placement, I'm complaining about the score.

HOW DID IT GET SIXTY-THREE 5s?????

*takes a deep breath*

Okay, well here's the non-cropped version which in my opinion is much better, but the detail is lost with the 640 limit, so I decided to crop closer.
(Larger Version)

I entered the non-cropped into a photo contest and it was voted 5th out of the top 10 which had been chosen out of 127 entries. I guess this is why I got so emotional about doing so "bad" in this, because it was a Free Study.

Thank you to the people who left comments, to just-married for the favorite, and to the two people who mistook my entry for Jacko's.
11/08/2004 04:08:19 AM · #2
I think it might have. The center composition works really well.
11/08/2004 04:15:49 AM · #3
The original crop would've done better then the cropped version. Even with all the negative space on the right this composition looks better, probably because the antennae, red part of the petal in the background and the purple part that the grasshopper is sitting on curves into and brings your eyes attention right to the subject.
11/08/2004 04:31:50 AM · #4
I agree with movieman, I think the composition works better on the second shot. Also, in the first shot the bug is a little too close, and doesn't look particularly aesthetic, to me.

5.9x does seem a little harsh, but I think scores for Oct FS were quite low anyway, so I guess it all evens out. You got a 75% percentile, which is more relevant than score, so..
11/08/2004 06:24:12 AM · #5
Hi Ann... I feel you're pain! At two slots just below your entry, I came in at 122nd place with this entry.

Like yours, I had 63 fives. And another 18 fours.

I don't even take the threes, twos or ones seriously... I mean, what are *those* people thinking?!?

But to earn a five, I think a photo has to be simply "average". To me, an "average" photo is a snapshot. Perhaps well intentioned, but nothing significant to make it stand out.

And that 63 people (plus all of the fours), thought that your image or even my image were simply "average snapshots", really makes me wonder.

I think the voters in OFS were a lot harsher than they should have been. True, there were a lot of HIGH QUALITY photos in the challenge ... ones that deserved 8's, 9's and 10's. But I don't think that should have forced other "above average" photos to be voted down to merely "average".

I think you did great. I do agree your uncropped version looks better. But I definitely disagree with so many who thought your picture was merely "average".

Keep shooting! :-)

11/08/2004 06:29:44 AM · #6
As far as I can tell ....
I think the only reason you didn't do so good - is people on this site are sick of macros of Bugs and Flowers (hence the new challenge)
so yeh its a great photo - jst next time take a picture of something new which hasn't been seen a miilion times before

great shot none the less and great work and execution
11/08/2004 06:46:27 AM · #7
dwterry - I left a comment on your image
11/08/2004 08:02:42 AM · #8
I really like both images, but I think the tighter crop is better and am surprised it didn't rate higher in the challenge. I think the composition is better and the colors stand out so much more strongly without that large patch of white space. You did a really great job with this shot, Ann.
11/08/2004 08:07:51 AM · #9
Hi, I wish I could tell you why it didn’t score higher but there were a lot of 5 votes cast in this challenge. I think it was to do with a lot of high quality photographs and if you wanted to score higher than that it had to have the “WOW” factor. Don’t get me wrong, your photograph was a good macro shot. I voted you a 6. I remember studying your photo and bouncing between 6 or 7 before I voted. I ended up scoring you a 6 because I though it was a good photo in a group of good and great photographs. If it would have been in a challenge with less high quality pictures I believe it would of done better, I may have given in a 7. You may say why should it make a difference what else is in the challenge, that should not affect your score and you may be right but the mind is a funny thing. [EXAMPLE : I don’t know what part of California you live in so I don’t know what the weather is like there. But lets use the weather metaphor. If its winter and has been cold and you have a day that is 60 degrees you feel like its almost summer and may want to go in short sleeves. But if it’s been summer and you have a day that is 60 degrees you want to pull out a coat. See the same temperature in different situations feels different to people.] I think that is what happened to your picture along with others.
Does that make since? To early for me!

Message edited by author 2004-11-08 08:08:49.
11/08/2004 08:12:07 AM · #10
I agree with Phillip the tighter crop is way better and I was one of those who thought ut may be Jackos.. well come on... Big in ya face scarey bug macro.. had JACKO written all over it.

dont be so upset, it could be worse, you could wake up one morning and be ME! ...perish the thought.
11/08/2004 08:34:15 AM · #11
In my honest opinion i feel the one which was less cropped would do better... my reasoning at first is aesthetics however to get to more technical aspects i think it has something to do with motion
i read somewhere once that good photos of animals need to leave room for animation... by this what it meant was that when u have birds etc... u need to leave a path for which the animal "if animated" could move...
in you first photo its there and can just jump out at you however with the second it gives it room to move and a more natural and hence balanced photo

its something hard to explain and can only hope that u know where im coming from... cropping and image too tight feels constrictive and i dont think its aesthetically as pleasing as what say ur 2nd photo is...

REALLY hope that helped and if your confused will try again at explainin
11/08/2004 08:47:41 AM · #12
Originally posted by saintnicholas_25:

dwterry - I left a comment on your image


Thank you kindly! I appreciate the constructive criticism.

11/08/2004 08:53:43 AM · #13
Rule #6 eliminate distracting bright white spots in your background. You have some bright reflections on him as well.

120 out of 488 is a good score.

Tim
11/08/2004 09:14:41 AM · #14
Yours is without a doubt the best insect shot in the challenge (as I just came from saying in another thread). I think your placement comes of, as someone else said, people being tired of insect shots. I can go both ways on that. When I see a terrific insect shot over and over by the same people (absolutely no offense intended) I do think to myself "Okay, you've perfected that. Move on - challenge yourself. Don't rest on your laurels." But an insect shot is not the easiest shot in the world, IMO, so to see someone who hasn't perfected the technique create a shot like this is really great.

I think many people don't consider during voting that we're all here to experiment, to learn, and to improve. So while terrific insect macros may have lost their novelty, for some of us they are a great accomplishment. On the other hand, perhaps this has to come into consideration for the photographer - appeal shifts. As a photographer we must learn to judge the audience, to market our wares. In that sense, the "tired of bug shot" attitude has certainly voiced itself in the forums.

My main disappointment with your placement is that it did not out place all the other insect shots, as it clearly should have IMO. It truly is a great shot.
11/08/2004 04:39:36 PM · #15
Thanks everyone for their opinions!

The reason I cropped it like I did:
- There was so much detail in its face that I really wanted to get that into the image and with the uncropped I couldn't.
- I was afraid that the centered composition would shoot me down, because I know how "hated" that is here.
- I wanted to get the "WOAH" reaction of there was a huge bug "In Your Face," hence the title.

Originally posted by t_korecki:

In my honest opinion i feel the one which was less cropped would do better... my reasoning at first is aesthetics however to get to more technical aspects i think it has something to do with motion
i read somewhere once that good photos of animals need to leave room for animation... by this what it meant was that when u have birds etc... u need to leave a path for which the animal "if animated" could move...
in you first photo its there and can just jump out at you however with the second it gives it room to move and a more natural and hence balanced photo

*nods* That makes sense, and I generally do like to leave room, but for the reasons mentioned above, I didn't.

Originally posted by Niten:

Rule #6 eliminate distracting bright white spots in your background. You have some bright reflections on him as well.

120 out of 488 is a good score.

I did burn the bright spot on its body because I realized that and that's one reason I cropped it so close.

Yes, tis a good score, but not as well as I'd hoped for. ^_^

Originally posted by just-married:

Yours is without a doubt the best insect shot in the challenge (as I just came from saying in another thread). I think your placement comes of, as someone else said, people being tired of insect shots. ...
I think many people don't consider during voting that we're all here to experiment, to learn, and to improve. So while terrific insect macros may have lost their novelty, for some of us they are a great accomplishment. ... As a photographer we must learn to judge the audience, to market our wares. In that sense, the "tired of bug shot" attitude has certainly voiced itself in the forums.

My main disappointment with your placement is that it did not out place all the other insect shots, as it clearly should have IMO. It truly is a great shot.


Thanks, Dawn and I am really glad that you like my image so much. I don't care if people are tired of bug macros, it's new for me! Lol. And marketing to this crowd here is so insanely hard, that's why I cropped it so close, I thought it would be like better than the huge white space...even though I prefer the original over the cropped.

The placement bothered me too, some deserved it, some didn't (in my opinion). *shrugs*
11/08/2004 04:43:52 PM · #16
I like the non-cropped version much better.
I really like your use of colour - very bold and confident and works very ell.
11/08/2004 05:15:26 PM · #17
Hey,

Just in general, I think I would've given you a 5 or 6 as well, it's a great shot, but personally I base part of my score on creativity - afterall, I view photographers as artists. This shot, while well done, has been done a ga-zillion times before. That's why this month's macro challenge says no bugs or flowers, cause it's been done to death.

Sorry!

edit - typo

Message edited by author 2004-11-08 17:16:48.
11/08/2004 10:58:20 PM · #18
Originally posted by GoldBerry:

Hey,

Just in general, I think I would've given you a 5 or 6 as well, it's a great shot, but personally I base part of my score on creativity - afterall, I view photographers as artists. This shot, while well done, has been done a ga-zillion times before. That's why this month's macro challenge says no bugs or flowers, cause it's been done to death.

Sorry!


Don't give me that excuse. Sunsets and sunrises (with or without fog) are done TO DEATH and yet TWO won!

*shrugs* I'm always more interested to see a good macro than I am an impersonal and boring sunset, no matter how breathtaking it may be.

Anyway, no offense was meant or anything, just pointing out a defense to that rationalization.
11/08/2004 11:36:07 PM · #19
Originally posted by dwterry:

Hi Ann... I feel you're pain! At two slots just below your entry, I came in at 122nd place with this entry.

Like yours, I had 63 fives. And another 18 fours.

I don't even take the threes, twos or ones seriously... I mean, what are *those* people thinking?!?

But to earn a five, I think a photo has to be simply "average". To me, an "average" photo is a snapshot. Perhaps well intentioned, but nothing significant to make it stand out.

And that 63 people (plus all of the fours), thought that your image or even my image were simply "average snapshots", really makes me wonder.

I think the voters in OFS were a lot harsher than they should have been. True, there were a lot of HIGH QUALITY photos in the challenge ... ones that deserved 8's, 9's and 10's. But I don't think that should have forced other "above average" photos to be voted down to merely "average".

I think you did great. I do agree your uncropped version looks better. But I definitely disagree with so many who thought your picture was merely "average".

Keep shooting! :-)


Not to sound mean, but you are lucky you recieved that high of an average. Your photo, even at f/32, lacks sharpness in most the photo. Perhaps you pressed the shutter and jarred it, or it was windy, but there is nothing really in the photo which is sharp. I would have rated it a 4.
11/08/2004 11:54:21 PM · #20
What a let down, what you consider " the best photo I have taken" might not rate with the voters for whatever reason. whether it is up against others of the same Genre or not every one votes as they see it. A 5 from some my equatec to an 7 from some one else.
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