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05/12/2021 05:05:26 PM · #26
I just came across this and couldn't not post it here.
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Humor has changed a bit since the 80's, but I still laugh at nearly everything that I don't get angry about and several things that I do.
05/12/2021 05:27:39 PM · #27
This topic is getting tired. My objection is the "Set Up". I know that snake eat mice, and lions eat zebras etc.
It's the person who bought a zebra and set up a shot to photograph the lion about to devour the zebra.

It's as Steve Hill used to say "Why are you showing me this? To me, it's just perverted.
05/12/2021 05:36:56 PM · #28
Originally posted by Lydia:

So... how did they become frozen?

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(just guessing)
05/12/2021 07:33:36 PM · #29
Originally posted by Lydia:

Originally posted by vawendy:

The aquarium I work for doesn't use live animals for feed. It's frozen mice, chicks, etc.


So... how did they become frozen?


I assume they are quickly euthanized vs putting them in a cage to be chased, caught, in many cases (like with cats) played with before finally being eaten.
05/12/2021 07:34:35 PM · #30
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Lydia:

So... how did they become frozen?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/25000-29999/28742/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1261425.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/25000-29999/28742/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1261425.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

(just guessing)


And no -- they use liquid helium, instead -- it's much colder!
05/12/2021 07:54:01 PM · #31
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Originally posted by Lydia:

So... how did they become frozen?

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(just guessing)


And no -- they use liquid helium, instead -- it's much colder!


Because the mouse screams weren't already high-pitched enough!!
05/12/2021 10:44:35 PM · #32
Originally posted by MeMex2:

You are not hurting my feelings. I am just not interested in snakes as "pets". I do not get it and do not want to.


So basically, you just object because it grosses you out.

05/12/2021 10:44:58 PM · #33
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by Lydia:

Originally posted by vawendy:

The aquarium I work for doesn't use live animals for feed. It's frozen mice, chicks, etc.


So... how did they become frozen?


I assume they are quickly euthanized vs putting them in a cage to be chased, caught, in many cases (like with cats) played with before finally being eaten.


No they freeze them alive
05/13/2021 07:36:04 AM · #34
Originally posted by JulietNN:

Originally posted by MeMex2:

You are not hurting my feelings. I am just not interested in snakes as "pets". I do not get it and do not want to.


So basically, you just object because it grosses you out.


Naw. I don't think that's fair. If it were just that, wildlife photography would allow baiting. Most contests, magazines, etc forbid it.

This is what the editor of wildlife magazine says:

It's unnatural behavior and it devalues the hard work of ethical wildlife photographers who are out there taking the time in the field to wait for that shot," Moore says.

She says her magazine's goal is to feature ethical, authentic photos not of wildlife in a game farm, or lured with bait.

And that's pretty much my problem with it. I'm out staying my distance from the wild life, trying to keep things natural, and the winning photo and our local magazine was someone using a live mouse and a camera trap. That doesn't seem to be wildlife photography to me.

Digital editing has already made people doubt legitimate wildlife photos. If I capture something incredible, I'm very hesitant to put it in extended editing, because what makes it incredible is that it was real. That was the hard work and skill that went into the shot.

But then people say why are you feeling mealworms to bluebirds to get your bluebird shots? Which is a valid question oh, but my bluebirds were already coming to the suet and the seed. And even if you know where a small bird is coming it's still extremely difficult to get a shot! But my point is I wasn't changing the behavior of the bird. Baiting owls is definitely changing behavior of the bird and acclimating them to humans.

Pet photography is another matter. Many of us would have a hard time feeding a live animal to another live animal. So then people they have a tendency to think that it was caught in the wild. Which does cheapen wildlife photography a bit. It's hard going out in camo gear for an entire weekend, sitting in the rain, in the cold, laying on your stomach for hours with your camera propped up on your elbows, not being able to move the next day. Getting a shot of a coyote with a fish in not quite the right light, but still pretty exciting. Just to find out that the next day is somebody went out and just threw them a huge gorgeous fish and got the shot in 15 minutes.

So baiting itself is a huge controversy. Many people say you shouldn't feed birds at all much less feed them for photography purposes.

I simply try to not change the behavior of what I'm photographing. If the animal is truly wild, I'll try to be part of the background. If a squirrel is already raiding my and my neighbors bird feeders, coming up on my deck and eating my herbs, tomatoes, and anything that I'm trying to grow, I'll go ahead and take advantage of that. There are definitely wildlife photographers that would think that that was completely wrong.

I'll put honey out on my sidewalk to get a shot of ants, because they already come into my kitchen to look for food, and if I eat on my deck they're definitely checking to see if I dropped anything.

It is hard to know where the line is drawn.

And there are a lot of issues that are worth discussing.

So let's get back to the issues, and not jump on someone for having opinions. Because there really is a lot to discuss. What if I decide to do pet photography by putting a bunny out for a Labrador retriever? That does seem to be crossing a line. But does a retriever bringing back a kill for a hunter cross the line?

Let's figure out the issues and have a discussion, because there are a lot of lines -- which ones are ok to cross?

05/13/2021 07:59:13 AM · #35
Originally posted by vawendy:

The aquarium I work for doesn't use live animals for feed. It's frozen mice, chicks, etc.


Off topic: Half of the chicks out of the egg are male and they serve no purpose in the egg industry (obviously) and/or chicken-meat industry so they get killed with gas the minute they get out of the egg. They are mainly used as animal food.

The reason they also are not used in the meat industry is because they take 3 times as much food for the same meat production as the hens.

New methods are being developed to stop the male development at embriotic stage, but does it really make a difference?

Message edited by author 2021-05-13 08:00:57.
05/13/2021 09:40:56 AM · #36
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by JulietNN:

Originally posted by MeMex2:

You are not hurting my feelings. I am just not interested in snakes as "pets". I do not get it and do not want to.


So basically, you just object because it grosses you out.


Naw. I don't think that's fair. If it were just that, wildlife photography would allow baiting. Most contests, magazines, etc forbid it.

This is what the editor of wildlife magazine says:

It's unnatural behavior and it devalues the hard work of ethical wildlife photographers who are out there taking the time in the field to wait for that shot," Moore says.

She says her magazine's goal is to feature ethical, authentic photos not of wildlife in a game farm, or lured with bait.

And that's pretty much my problem with it. I'm out staying my distance from the wild life, trying to keep things natural, and the winning photo and our local magazine was someone using a live mouse and a camera trap. That doesn't seem to be wildlife photography to me.

Digital editing has already made people doubt legitimate wildlife photos. If I capture something incredible, I'm very hesitant to put it in extended editing, because what makes it incredible is that it was real. That was the hard work and skill that went into the shot.

But then people say why are you feeling mealworms to bluebirds to get your bluebird shots? Which is a valid question oh, but my bluebirds were already coming to the suet and the seed. And even if you know where a small bird is coming it's still extremely difficult to get a shot! But my point is I wasn't changing the behavior of the bird. Baiting owls is definitely changing behavior of the bird and acclimating them to humans.

Pet photography is another matter. Many of us would have a hard time feeding a live animal to another live animal. So then people they have a tendency to think that it was caught in the wild. Which does cheapen wildlife photography a bit. It's hard going out in camo gear for an entire weekend, sitting in the rain, in the cold, laying on your stomach for hours with your camera propped up on your elbows, not being able to move the next day. Getting a shot of a coyote with a fish in not quite the right light, but still pretty exciting. Just to find out that the next day is somebody went out and just threw them a huge gorgeous fish and got the shot in 15 minutes.

So baiting itself is a huge controversy. Many people say you shouldn't feed birds at all much less feed them for photography purposes.

I simply try to not change the behavior of what I'm photographing. If the animal is truly wild, I'll try to be part of the background. If a squirrel is already raiding my and my neighbors bird feeders, coming up on my deck and eating my herbs, tomatoes, and anything that I'm trying to grow, I'll go ahead and take advantage of that. There are definitely wildlife photographers that would think that that was completely wrong.

I'll put honey out on my sidewalk to get a shot of ants, because they already come into my kitchen to look for food, and if I eat on my deck they're definitely checking to see if I dropped anything.

It is hard to know where the line is drawn.

And there are a lot of issues that are worth discussing.

So let's get back to the issues, and not jump on someone for having opinions. Because there really is a lot to discuss. What if I decide to do pet photography by putting a bunny out for a Labrador retriever? That does seem to be crossing a line. But does a retriever bringing back a kill for a hunter cross the line?

Let's figure out the issues and have a discussion, because there are a lot of lines -- which ones are ok to cross?


I get what you are saying , and as you are a highly amazing wildlife photographer absolutely agree with you.

But in the same line of thinking, if someone says it is perverted and they are not into snakes and object about feeding the animal and taking a photo of it, that is not so much the ethical and more along the lines of being grossed out or moral. Your point of keeping your distance, absolutely, but this is someone's pet. It is eating it's dinner.

I remember a loooooooooong time ago when someone posted pictures in their portfolio of a women being hung up with hooks through her skin on here. I was not impressed and vocally said so. I was shot down pretty fast and was told that it was the photographer's right and his art. That shut me up.

So I do think this is more about what grosses us out versus the ethical really. No one will object to a cat eating a mouse or a dog eating his food, this is for some of us, what feeding a pet is. They eat live things and some people are not comfortable with it. Which is fine.

05/13/2021 02:21:04 PM · #37
I'm suddenly finding this thread somewhat ironic considering the OP's current Yellow-Ribboner ...
05/13/2021 04:02:01 PM · #38
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I'm suddenly finding this thread somewhat ironic considering the OP's current Yellow-Ribboner ...
+1 since in both cases it is a fictionalized depiction of implied violence
05/13/2021 05:05:45 PM · #39
the difference is animals and it is huge.
05/13/2021 06:59:47 PM · #40
Originally posted by MeMex2:

the difference is animals and it is huge.

It's OK to depict dismemberment of humans but not of feeding an animal its normal prey?

We seem to operate under different values systems ...

ETA: ... and that's OK -- just different ...

Message edited by author 2021-05-13 19:00:43.
05/13/2021 09:39:23 PM · #41
I really regret starting this post. I probably overreacted to the snake/mouse set up shot.
My first thought was that it was real and that it was sensational and exploitive and cruel. I posted those
sentiments to 1x as did many other people and the photograph and the photographer were removed from the site.

As to the foot in the prison cell, I am not sure I see the connection. It was shot for a "macabre" or "strange" or some such challenge.
The foot is an Italian ceramic planter. The title is "accident in cell block H. I thought it was weird enough to meet the challenge although
I do not think I ever entered it. It is bizarre and inexplicable and very sinister but no animal was hurt in the process.

Let's put this thread to bed.
xxx

05/13/2021 09:55:25 PM · #42
Originally posted by MeMex2:

My first thought was that it was real and that it was sensational and exploitive and cruel.

One last thing then ... I think it can be exploitive and cruel without being "photographically unethical" -- art is often disturbing on purpose*, and if exploitation were truly deemed unethical we might have to discard the entire corporate structure of the economy on moral grounds ...

* e.g. Picasso's Guernica, any Crucifixion painting, your photo, etc.

Message edited by author 2021-05-13 21:58:25.
05/13/2021 11:23:07 PM · #43
Good to see things haven't changed much.

Miss ya'll! :)
05/14/2021 12:09:34 AM · #44
Originally posted by MeMex2:

I really regret starting this post. I probably overreacted to the snake/mouse set up shot.
My first thought was that it was real and that it was sensational and exploitive and cruel. I posted those
sentiments to 1x as did many other people and the photograph and the photographer were removed from the site.

As to the foot in the prison cell, I am not sure I see the connection. It was shot for a "macabre" or "strange" or some such challenge.
The foot is an Italian ceramic planter. The title is "accident in cell block H. I thought it was weird enough to meet the challenge although
I do not think I ever entered it. It is bizarre and inexplicable and very sinister but no animal was hurt in the process.

Let's put this thread to bed.
xxx


You opened a can of worms, it went from exploitive, sadistic, to serial killer, manipulative, deceitful and aggressive or unethicality unethical, morally wrong, to gross, to perverted,. Your words.

A very odd world we live in.

Message edited by author 2021-05-14 00:10:09.
05/14/2021 02:58:52 AM · #45
Originally posted by Cory:

Good to see things haven't changed much.

Miss ya'll! :)


;-)
05/14/2021 10:58:50 AM · #46
Originally posted by MeMex2:

I really regret starting this post. I probably overreacted to the snake/mouse set up shot.
My first thought was that it was real and that it was sensational and exploitive and cruel. I posted those
sentiments to 1x as did many other people and the photograph and the photographer were removed from the site.

As to the foot in the prison cell, I am not sure I see the connection. It was shot for a "macabre" or "strange" or some such challenge.
The foot is an Italian ceramic planter. The title is "accident in cell block H. I thought it was weird enough to meet the challenge although
I do not think I ever entered it. It is bizarre and inexplicable and very sinister but no animal was hurt in the process.

Let's put this thread to bed.
xxx


No animal was hurt in the 1x photo either. It was as fake as yours and I'm a bit stunned that some seasoned photographers on this thread can't see that.
05/14/2021 02:58:06 PM · #47
Originally posted by posthumous:

No animal was hurt in the 1x photo either. It was as fake as yours and I'm a bit stunned that some seasoned photographers on this thread can't see that.
I was stunned that evidently not only the photo was removed, but the photographer was banned from 1x. Although such a knee-jerk reaction is rather typical these days
05/14/2021 03:28:12 PM · #48
Originally posted by LevT:

I was stunned that evidently not only the photo was removed, but the photographer was banned from 1x.

Really? That's insane considering some of the other shit on that site.
05/14/2021 05:09:57 PM · #49
Originally posted by LevT:

I was stunned that evidently not only the photo was removed, but the photographer was banned from 1x. Although such a knee-jerk reaction is rather typical these days


Such as censorship, manipulation, indoctrination....fear.
Memories Lev...

Message edited by Bear_Music - parsed quote.
05/14/2021 05:19:21 PM · #50
Originally posted by MeMex2:

I really regret starting this post. I probably overreacted to the snake/mouse set up shot.
My first thought was that it was real and that it was sensational and exploitive and cruel. I posted those
sentiments to 1x as did many other people and the photograph and the photographer were removed from the site.

As to the foot in the prison cell, I am not sure I see the connection. It was shot for a "macabre" or "strange" or some such challenge.
The foot is an Italian ceramic planter. The title is "accident in cell block H. I thought it was weird enough to meet the challenge although
I do not think I ever entered it. It is bizarre and inexplicable and very sinister but no animal was hurt in the process.

Let's put this thread to bed.
xxx


Naw -- It's something that's worth discussing.

I'm thinking of offering wildlife photography tours to local spots through the place I work. We are definitely in to conservation, but that can mean so many things: from "never, ever look at wildlife at all leave them completely alone" to stay x feet away.

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