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04/06/2021 11:24:24 AM · #1
Hi
So I pulled up my first choice in PS, applied a blue filter... and nothing. No difference. I could give it a blue tone job but that isn’t the challenge as I see it.

Any thoughts?
Thanks.
04/06/2021 11:25:49 AM · #2
Forgot to say it is a grayscale image.
04/06/2021 12:16:14 PM · #3
Blue filter only works on colors images makin blue tones brighter and red tones darker. You can convert it to grayscale afterwards
04/06/2021 12:34:46 PM · #4
For greyscale photos, I use Photoshop's Black and White and then click the Tint button (lower left on pop up). Then adjust the color slider.

04/06/2021 12:41:12 PM · #5
Is blue filter the same as blue toning?
04/06/2021 01:36:29 PM · #6
Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Is blue filter the same as blue toning?

I do not believe so, no. Blue toning is easy, getting a blue filter image to work is a bit trickier. IMO.
04/06/2021 02:44:37 PM · #7
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Is blue filter the same as blue toning?

I do not believe so, no. Blue toning is easy, getting a blue filter image to work is a bit trickier. IMO.

A very clear reply ;)
04/06/2021 03:28:37 PM · #8
Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by MargaretNet:

Is blue filter the same as blue toning?

I do not believe so, no. Blue toning is easy, getting a blue filter image to work is a bit trickier. IMO.

A very clear reply ;)

Oh, a clear filter is an entirely different animal! ;-)

Actually, regarding the OP, if you google 'blue filter photography' you can get much more accurate information. At least, that's what I did. Good luck!
04/06/2021 05:07:31 PM · #9
That's the problem with this challenge -- I think people will expect the resulting image to be blue. That's not the purpose of a blue filter for b&w
04/06/2021 05:11:38 PM · #10
Originally posted by vawendy:

That's the problem with this challenge -- I think people will expect the resulting image to be blue. That's not the purpose of a blue filter for b&w

EXACTLY
04/06/2021 06:47:17 PM · #11
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by vawendy:

That's the problem with this challenge -- I think people will expect the resulting image to be blue. That's not the purpose of a blue filter for b&w

EXACTLY


And now I hate both the challenge and this discussion. Why are we doing things like this - it's like we're trying to trick the participants and voters both with the challenges selected (topics and/or descriptions) or with the discussions in the forum before the darned things even kick off. So you're penalized if you don't faithfully follow not only every discussion posted but every post in every discussion.

ETA Without this discussion, I would expect something like Mark Wiley's win in Overlay in Blue Filter . . .
Whether creating or voting, I would be fine with something bluer . . . but probably less blue. But it appears that I'm just not sophisticated enough for the challenge.

Message edited by author 2021-04-06 18:52:27.
04/06/2021 07:50:08 PM · #12
Originally posted by nam:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by vawendy:

That's the problem with this challenge -- I think people will expect the resulting image to be blue. That's not the purpose of a blue filter for b&w

EXACTLY


And now I hate both the challenge and this discussion. Why are we doing things like this - it's like we're trying to trick the participants and voters both with the challenges selected (topics and/or descriptions) or with the discussions in the forum before the darned things even kick off. So you're penalized if you don't faithfully follow not only every discussion posted but every post in every discussion.

ETA Without this discussion, I would expect something like Mark Wiley's win in Overlay in Blue Filter . . .
Whether creating or voting, I would be fine with something bluer . . . but probably less blue. But it appears that I'm just not sophisticated enough for the challenge.


No one's trying to trick anyone -- we're just trying to understand the topic. It's like saying the Whirly gig method, without people really understanding what the whirly gig method is. This is such a good learning site -- I think it's important to have the discussions. I don't particularly understand the filters for B&w, because I haven't played with them much. But it really would have been a good challenge with more information.

Here is an example of a B&W done with a red filter and one done with a blue filter.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/100000-104999/103142/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1260537.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/100000-104999/103142/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1260537.jpg', '/') + 1) . '' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/100000-104999/103142/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1260538.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/100000-104999/103142/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1260538.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

But if people don't understand that is what color filters do on black and whites, they'd end up scoring all correctly done images low.

It's ok to score something low if you don't like it. It's ok to accidentally score something low if you don't understand. But A challenge like these seems to leave the door wide open for problems. Being a little more clear with a more precise description and perhaps a link to help us learn would have been really useful.
04/06/2021 08:38:40 PM · #13
Originally posted by vawendy:

... Being a little more clear with a more precise description and perhaps a link to help us learn would have been really useful.

Hmm. Not sure how much more could have been put in that description really. We have a fairly mature audience here and I think it's fair nowadays to think that if the description isn't quite enough then just fire up Google and get the extra details needed. ??? I know that's what I did to help clarify it for myself personally. Same with the other technical challenge on the board currently (Brenizer Method).
04/06/2021 08:42:58 PM · #14
Originally posted by oldbimmercoupe:

Hi
So I pulled up my first choice in PS, applied a blue filter... and nothing. No difference. I could give it a blue tone job but that isn’t the challenge as I see it.

Any thoughts?
Thanks.


I know quoting self is bad form but I want to thank those that responded. Sadly the bottom line is that this challenge needs to be reworded to EXCLUDE monochrome. How can we “prove” we even applied the filter to the image? I pulled another file I liked and got same result -zilch. This challenge has good intentions but makes no sense. It is essentially an archival open challenge. I argue that applying filters is a processing procedure to get the best results, not an end unto itself.

Other option might be to make this a full-color only challenge?
04/06/2021 08:45:48 PM · #15
Originally posted by oldbimmercoupe:

Originally posted by oldbimmercoupe:

Hi
So I pulled up my first choice in PS, applied a blue filter... and nothing. No difference. I could give it a blue tone job but that isn’t the challenge as I see it.

Any thoughts?
Thanks.


I know quoting self is bad form but I want to thank those that responded. Sadly the bottom line is that this challenge needs to be reworded to EXCLUDE monochrome. How can we “prove” we even applied the filter to the image? I pulled another file I liked and got same result -zilch. This challenge has good intentions but makes no sense. It is essentially an archival open challenge. I argue that applying filters is a processing procedure to get the best results, not an end unto itself.

Other option might be to make this a full-color only challenge?


Sorry for double post.
Forgot to say this is NOT a tint/toning challenge.
04/06/2021 08:47:55 PM · #16
Originally posted by nam:

... And now I hate both the challenge and this discussion. Why are we doing things like this - it's like we're trying to trick the participants and voters both with the challenges selected (topics and/or descriptions) or with the discussions in the forum before the darned things even kick off. So you're penalized if you don't faithfully follow not only every discussion posted but every post in every discussion. ...

That's a fair statement Nikki, and I agree with most of what you've said. I also don't like having discussions that influence perspectives once a challenge is underway and entries have been entered.

What's the solution?

Bar all conversation about a challenge once it's been posted and open for entries?

Pick a handful of 'technical' challenges, or those that are unusually specific topics, and have conversations in general about them over a period of time so it's not a surprise when the challenge does hit the board? Of course this assumes that people are participating in the forum threads ...

... more ideas are welcome.
04/06/2021 08:54:33 PM · #17
Ok. Here's the challenge, as it's currently written and as it's currently running. No change forthcoming at this point. :-)

Challenge Description:
Filters are often very helpful in photography. They can correct light balance, enhance colors for black and white conversion, add mood, or do other things. Use a blue filter, either on-camera or the equivalent in your post-processing, to enhance your photo. The photo may ultimately be color or black and white.

Please Google 'blue filter photography' for more info as desired. There really is a lot of good information available. Colored filters have been around for a long time.

Google results ...
Example #1
Example #2
04/06/2021 09:36:05 PM · #18
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Ok. Here's the challenge, as it's currently written and as it's currently running. No change forthcoming at this point. :-)

Challenge Description:
Filters are often very helpful in photography. They can correct light balance, enhance colors for black and white conversion, add mood, or do other things. Use a blue filter, either on-camera or the equivalent in your post-processing, to enhance your photo. The photo may ultimately be color or black and white.

Please Google 'blue filter photography' for more info as desired. There really is a lot of good information available. Colored filters have been around for a long time.

Google results ...
Example #1
Example #2


That's quite nice -- I would have liked that in the challenge description. I think it's a technique that not a lot of people might know about. They might assume it's just adding blue. If Jesse (my 22 year old) was entering, he would have had no idea how color filters affect b&w photography.

And I know that people hate discussion threads. I actually really like them. I like having an insight into how people think. I like learning different interpretations. I may see them in a challenge, but seeing isn't particularly understanding.

I've also learned a lot in pre challenge discussions. Especially one challenges where I'm unfamiliar with the techniques mentioned. You can google all you want, and it will give you technical info, but that's nothing like advice from people I've considered mentors.

People see discussions as narrowing and limiting. I find them opening up many different worlds.
04/06/2021 10:05:34 PM · #19
Originally posted by vawendy:

That's the problem with this challenge -- I think people will expect the resulting image to be blue. That's not the purpose of a blue filter for b&w

The image doesn't have to be B&W, and sometimes an image will be blue when shot with a blue filter (especially color images). The challenge description list several other things a blue filter can be used for besides enhancing certain colors in B&W photography.

Under the Standard rules you don't have to "prove" you used a blue filter -- you don't even have to ...
04/06/2021 10:31:46 PM · #20
Sometimes it feels like there's this *terrible* need by a certain percentage of members to see challenges DEFINED in such a way as it's obvious to everybody exactly what they're supposed to do and everyone can and should target their vision in the same direction. Way back in the beginning I tried to accommodate that by writing extremely detailed challenge descriptions that laid out my perspective on what the challenge meant as if it were cut-and-dried. I got a lot of flak for that, and I soon understood why; life is much more interesting when we each and all figure things out for ourselves and get a little brave or tricky or feisty or downright weird. I'd hate to see that quashed by over-defining challenges.

In the case of blue filters, the description was deliberately left wide open.
04/06/2021 11:01:44 PM · #21
What Robert said :-)
04/07/2021 02:07:57 AM · #22
Originally posted by glad2badad:


Google results ...
Example #1


From this link:

"Blue filters are not as commonly used in black and white photography because they lighten the sky and darken highlights or colors that are seen as light. Blue filters can draw attention to haze and fog, which can enhance the mood of the photo if needed. It’s a good idea to experiment with this filter using the B&W setting, as opposed to shooting in color and converting the image to B&W in an image processor."
04/07/2021 05:55:52 AM · #23
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

… In the case of blue filters, the description was deliberately left wide open.

Actually Robert, I think your description on blue filters was just about right. It had some definition and suggestions but nothing that boxed the community in.
04/07/2021 05:57:15 AM · #24
Set up a discussion over here if anyone wants to hash it out some more, now or in the future.
04/07/2021 06:59:01 AM · #25
It's because of colour filters that I always shoot in colour and convert to bw afterwards. Nik Silver Efex offers a choice of colour filters which can be applied to any of their presets and with some of those presets the variations can be really dramatic.
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